Is CloneDVD's MPEG encoding broken?

vbimport

#1

The best way for me to describe this problem, is to retell the story of how I discovered it:

I dual boot Windows and Linux. On Windows I use CloneDVD2 (2.9.0.3), and on Linux I use mainly DVD Shrink (3.2.0.15) running under wine.

Every DVD I buy, I backup the original, store it away, then only use the backup from then on. I nearly always watch my DVDs on the PC, since my monitor is actually bigger than my TV :slight_smile:

I haven’t been keeping track of which tools I used to back up the DVDs at any given time (didn’t think I needed to), until now.

I recently started watching my DVD backups using a standalone player (NAD L55), which is a very nice $800 machine, but was horrified to discover that some of these backups were “corrupted”. Specifically, the scenes jump, the picture jitters, the audio screeches, and it’s generally unwatchable, in spurts throughout the movie.

However, not all of these backups exhibited this problem, so I set out to discover the difference between the good and bad backups.

  1. All HQ media (Verbatim, TDK). I.e. MCC 03RG20
  2. No correlation between media and errors
  3. All burned on the same drive (Plextor PX-716SA)
  4. All 16x media burned at 8x

Then I finally made the connection…

Every single one of the “corrupt” DVDs had the following “Application ID”:

“ELBY CLONEDVD” !!!

I’ve been through my entire collection of backups (only around 100 so far), and 37 of them are CloneDVD backups, and without exception every single one exhibits this “corrupt” behaviour on this NAD player.

Now like I said, these backups work fine on the PC, so what is the most likely explanation for this problem. Remember … same media, same drive, same burn speed; the only difference is the backup program???

Is CloneDVD’s MPEG encoding broken?

Thanks.


#2

Hi,

If they play on the computer, but not on your stand alone DVD player, then it might be the player at fault. I had a Ă‚ÂŁ550 Denon that hated copies, even on Verbatim and Yayio Yuden blanks.

Try a freind’s player.

Regards,

Darren

PS Never buy Denon. They didn’t even answer my emails regarding the above DVD player, and I had to ring them up in the end. They said the shop I bought it from would handle any repairs. All this shop does is sell Bang & Oulfson, and a few other things. So you can imagine why I didn’t want them to take it apart, but Denon weren’t interested.


#3

I would think it’s the player, except for the fact that it is only the CloneDVD backups that don’t work, not backups made with other tools. I checked them all, and it’s a 100% match.

I can’t think what it could be other than the MPEG encoding, or possibly the disc layout.

Yeah you’re right about expensive players being fussy, I sometimes think I’d be better off with a dirt cheap player from Taiwan - those things play anything.


#4

[H]omer -

Even if you use good blank DVD Media and a good DVD Burner if the DVD Burner Firmware doesn’t include the MID for the blank DVD Media you are using you can get less than desirable results.

Have you ensured that your Plextor PX-716SA DVD Burner Firmware is up to date with the newest current available Firmware?

BeLooken


#5

Depending on what burning engine you have set with Shrink to burn, you may have the option to change the blank media’s booktype to dvd-rom (and if so, this is probably happening by default when you choose to burn from Shrink), which may improve playback compatibility on some standalone dvd players. Clonedvd2 does not have this option. If this is the problem, then your solution is to run Plextools (which came with your burner; but check the Plextools website for updates) and use the bitsetting options to change the booktype to dvd-rom wherever it’s possible, by default.


#6

Small point . . .
Shrink and Clonedvd2 use transcoders–not encoders.


#7

QFT


#8

Thanks Webslinger.

Hmm, this solution looked promising, but I did some quick research and discovered that the booktype bitsetting only usually works with DVD+R, but I only use DVD-R. Even if I switched to DVD+R, that still doesn’t account for why my NAD player likes Shrink, but doesn’t like CloneDVD. Post-burn, how can you read the booktype to check how a disc was burned (so I can check my collection)?

Let’s say I did a shrink and burn using CloneDVD, and another from the same source disc using DVD Shrink; is there any way I could compare the results to find the difference in either the MPEG and /or the disc layout?


#9

O.k., that shouldn’t really matter then.

Even if I switched to DVD+R, that still doesn’t account for why my NAD player likes Shrink, but doesn’t like CloneDVD.

Might have something to do with burn speed under Clonedvd2, but I would upgrade your burner’s firmware if possible.

Post-burn, how can you read the booktype to check how a disc was burned (so I can check my collection)?

Plextools works as does http://www.cdspeed2000.com/

Let’s say I did a shrink and burn using CloneDVD, and another from the same source disc using DVD Shrink?

Saying you’re burning with Shrink doesn’t offer a lot of information, really, because Shrink, by itself, doesn’t burn. Are you using Nero or what?


#10

[H]omer -

SlySoft Technical Support has stated in previous Forum postings that the CloneDVD “Burning Engine” is unique in the manner in which it quarries the DVD Burner Firmware and blank Media MID to ensure quality-burning results. This unique DVD Burner Firmware/blank Media MID quarrying requires that DVD Burner Firmware have the most current up to date Firmware available to ensure quality error free burning results. In your most recent #8 posting it appears that you have over looked my inquiry concerning your Plextor PX-716SA DVD Burner Firmware.

Also some Verbatim MCC 03RG20 Media is manufacture in India and there have been some reports that Verbatim MCC 03RG20 Made In India Media has proven to be suspect in quality. Suggest checking to see if your Verbatim MCC 03RG20 Media was Made In India.

BeLooken


#11

Sorry, I should have said.

When running CloneDVD under Windows, I either burn with CloneDVD or create an ISO then burn with Nero. When running Shrink under WiNE emulation in Linux, I create an ISO then burn with K3B. The Shrink copies are fine, but all the CloneDVD copies exhibit this corruption problem.

It’s the same hardware (dual boot), and media in both cases.

The Plextor PX-716SA firmware version is v1.10.


#12

Out of curiosity, do the discs produced by Clonedvd2 play fine on your computer?

I would also take a harder look at Belooken’s posts concerning your choice of blank media.


#13

That’s just it, all the discs play fine on the PC.

WRT the media, Shrink is using the same media as CloneDVD, yet without errors???

About half of the media is Verbatim; the other half is mainly TDK, with a few Maxell and no-namers too, but no matter what the media, if the APP ID reads “ELBY CLONEDVD” then it’s corrupt, otherwise it’s fine.

There is something else that’s occurred to me.

All the good copies are being done under Linux. Maybe there’s something going on with Windows that is interfering with either the transcoding or burning?


#14

Then Clonedvd2 worked properly.

WRT the media, Shrink is using the same media as CloneDVD, yet without errors???

It’s possible to find a wide variety in quality within batches of media even within the same spindle, depending on the blank media being used.

Your problem is a compatibility issue between your player and the blank media you’re using. I recommend searching on the type of verbatim media you should be using within cdfreaks (there’s a good discussion on the type of font you should be looking for on the packaging). (real) Taiyo Yuden is a decent alternate choice.


#15

Have you scanned any of the disks, that won’t play on your stand alone, with CD-DVD Speed, or other disk quality utilities?


#16

Hmm, I’ll try CD-DVD Speed later tonight (busy right now), thanks.