I'm a Criminal?

Seems people jump on the “illegal download” wagon quite fast … I am Canadian and here it is legal to make B/U copies of Videos, music, etc. that I purchase. So if I buy a vid ( I get em used for a buck or 2 at the thrift shops.) then go to the internet and download the same movie as an avi/rar/iso/T_S file from a P2P site (instead of buying a capture card and running it through my VCR to computer… possible security issues, pic quality, etc…) am I illegally downloading copyrighted material? Not according to the Supreme court of Canada… we pay a blank media levy on every piece sold for that right.


Isn’t that a continuation of this thread? http://club.cdfreaks.com/f83/new-copyright-laws-canada-246904/

This is in regards to people being accused of illegally downloading off P2P sites…not about Bill C-61

And to tell ya true Bob,
I haven’t figured out how this works LOL I get a Tape for 2$ used, which has already been paid for at full price, then sold again used … Shouldn’t they have to remit some of that profit to the copyright holders too? From what I can figure all second hand sales of any type of media… tapes videos, cd’s dvd’s etc… are also ripping off the copyright holders whom are not getting any remittance from the re-sellers …

lol sorry…that’s why i put the question mark there.

I guess I should have kept the closing sentence in the first comment which was " perhaps one should find out where the person is from and the copyright laws there before accusing them of illegal activities" (I omitted it originally cuz I thought it sounded a bit snotty)

Which BTW I would find very offensive if I were accused…

yeah i don’t know how that law is.

off topic:
I always wonder why a person has to pay tax for 2nd hand stuff in USA if the item was taxed when it was new.

In response to yer off topic … we get 2 taxes on used stuff LOL Provincial and federal to a total of 12% LOL

Someone has to pay the politicians besides the special interest groups :wink: LOL

Your lucky because in the UNITED STATES hollywood
calls it pirating and is offering one million dollars for
blowing the whistle on companies,organizations,and individuals.
I guess they will have to try and sue the government of

And we had this discussion in these forums many time, so I am not going to state my opinion here…but refer to previous discussions instead

[B]Zap[/B]… How can I pirate something I own and am within the laws according to my Country, in agreement with the US copyright holders and US distributors to make backups? :confused: (they are the ones that get the money not the artists themselves for the most part, and the ones that agreed that the levy would be in leiu of lost revenues from copies being made)
Canadians pay a blank media levy to “the hollywoodheads” to make backups of purchased movies… it is irrelevant what I pay for each item as it has already been overpriced and paid for once by someone else… if they wanna call it piracy then they better refund all of the millions of $$$$ they have accepted from Canada since the early 1990’s when the levy was introduced… with interest… and shut down all the used dvd/cd and video shops too… including all thrift shops like Salvation Army etc… they are all selling used copyrighted media and hollywood isn’t getting royalties from those sales!!!
:cop: And BTW The United States is trying to ram their copyright laws down our throats (bill C-61) … but looks like it may have failed for now … :cool:

[B]Tax[/B]… I didn’t realize we have had a discussion on accusations (sometimes even by moderators) on this site, of guilt before proof of innocence re: using P2P to download movies. (IE Zap’s well-informed comment) why bother to have a P2P section if all of it is illegal according to Hollywood? (as Zap says)

Only thing I am guilty of is being too broke to afford a capture card to copy the video tapes over myself… and truly I don’t want to go through the bother …:bigsmile:


off topic:
I always wonder why a person has to pay tax for 2nd hand stuff in USA if the item was taxed when it was new.[/QUOTE]

Still off topic:
Kinda like paying sales tax for something you rent, right?

How in the heck did i get involved in this? :bigsmile:

Just lucky, I guess.

@ Bob … LMAO … you mentioned the magic words that stir every American to arms … Taxation with questionable representation :eek:

Oh and to correct something I said earlier, it was the late 1990’s that they started this levy…Not the early 90’s like I thought it was … maybe that was when we first started with music cd’s … time gets lost LOL

[B]@Soul:[/B] just to make some points (which are not a definitive CD Freaks legal statement):

  1. There are differences between countries in the copyright laws; regarding whether you can make backups of movies you have purchased. IIRC this is referred to as “fair dealing”, and includes format changes (e.g. converting movies/songs on DVD/CD to iPod/minidisc, USB stick, etc).

  2. From what you say, some degree of fair dealing is permitted in Canada; so that you may make a backup of a CD/DVD that you have bought without formally obtaining permission from the copyright holder.

  3. I am not aware that distributing copyrighted material for others to freely download is [B][I]ever[/I][/B] included as being permitted in fair dealing: either in proposals or current legislation (unless of course the person doing so is the copyright holder).

  4. In buying a CD or DVD you are not the copyright holder.

  5. Downloading illegally-distributed material is not the same as making a backup from a purchased CD/DVD, even if you’ve bought it as well. Converting your own ripped copy to another format may be permitted under fair dealing laws prevailing in a particular country.

  6. The systems for achieving efficient widespread distribution of movies and music - such as torrents - are not in themselves illegal and in fact even used by large organisations to distribute their output; a good example of which is the BBC with their iPlayer downloads.

  7. Such widespread distribution methods may employ DRM to limit the number of views, or the block of time for which the title can be played. Breaking DRM on something you freely download may also be against copyright law.

My understanding is that CD Freaks forum rules are based on the law in Netherlands, and thus are the gold standard for how we interpret requests for help in the forums. If you feel you have been treated unfairly, then you have recourse to contact one of the administrators, who will look at the case.

Did some digging and found this ost in which I refer to previous discussions:

[QUOTE=Da_Taxman;1131331]I understand your question, but as this has been covered several times before, I will save myself some time and post several links to topics with legal issues previously discussed in this forum:

illegal material on forum
Is CD copying legal in the US?
Understanding legal issues on Copies?
Legal Burning Thoughts
Legal Question
Science Fair Project … Legal issues?[/QUOTE]

The servers are located in the Netherlands and Dutch law is indeed the basis for our rules However, because we operate in an international environment, we have to consider other laws as well. Furthermore, to avoid a lot of grey area discussions, we chose to draw a strict line and apply it as consistent as possible. However, if a thread is not clearly about illegal matter (e.g. it only mentions a download, but not the source or the downloaded content), meaning it could also be a legal download, we may have our doubts, but it is then our policy not to close or delete it.

To what extent it is obvious that the user is requesting help with something illegal is mostly up o the respective moderator. If you don’t agree with a moderator’s decision, you can always contact the moderator to prove his wrong. If that doesn’t work, you can always appeal to a more senior member.

[B]imkidd57 Re: [/B]

  1. I am not aware that distributing copyrighted material for others to freely download is [I][B]ever[/B][/I] included as being permitted in fair dealing: either in proposals or current legislation (unless of course the person doing so is the copyright holder).

I don’t recall seeing anything in the fare trade site that said to the contrary of what I am doing … the method of attaining my backup for material I have purchased isn’t that specific as far as I could see… If not no biggy I’ll just pull out a few bucks from the food fund… I don’t like the idea of ripping people off… I was a drummer for several years ( B room cover bands mostly)…and mediocre bass fill-in I still have many friends in the music business. I have had artwork stolen from me too so I know what it feels like.:a

If you feel you have been treated unfairly, then you have recourse to contact one of the administrators, who will look at the case.

What I am refering to about the accusing replies I have seen have nothing to do with me personally… I just feel that perhaps there is a better way to address these people? Perhaps PM them with your opinions as to the legalility of what they have said, instead of doing it in a public forum? Just a modecum of decorum ?

Thanks imkidd57 I appreciate your input :cool:

And I have only had one issue here at CD Freaks and it was handled quickly and professionally … That kind of thing is hard to come by :smiley:

[B]Tax [/B]
Being Canadian, we at this point in time have a farily lax policy as to copying. There isn’t even a provision that I know of for circumventing security protection to copy a disc or video tape at this time. The Bill C-61 I refered to is uncannily similar to the US DMCA. This is part of of the new laws they want to introduce into Canada. They are not laws yet.

As to the way a Moderator has handled a situation like I have mentioned, perhaps I should have contacted the Moderator directly but wasn’t sure if this was a policy to treat people this way or not. :confused:
And the word Moderator … should it not be to act moderatly as to set a professional (yes I know most of ya are volunteers :flower: ) example for others?

Thanks for the links Tax :smiley: some interesting reading… there’s so much stuff in this site it gets overwhelming sometimes to track stuff down… well for me anyways LOL