it seems to me the majority of topics on this forum are illegally based yet when I mention downloading games my thread gets locked not deleted. i find this rich having a whole section regarding copyright protection and how to get around it.
Jimbob007, take a moment to read our forum rules. Discussions on illegal things are not allowed. Making a back-up of an original game you own is not considered illegal can may be discussed on our forums. Your first thread was closed because you downloaded the games. I didn’t delete it because this way other people can see that we do not allow this. Your second thread (in which you just removed the words “downloaded”) has been deleted. Contact me via PM if you disagree.
making a copy of software you own for backup purposes is legal under copyright laws around the world.
copying downloaded stuff in order to sell it (or to give it away for free) is illegal.
everything is explained clearly in the rules. If you don’t like the rules, don’t visit CDFreaks…
well its obvious that I’m not going to be able to find a solution to my burning problem here. Even when I tried rewording my post it gets slated. I understand your actions its just I believe the first post being deleted and the second one left there so people could help me would have been better but thats just my feelings on the matter. As a last hope if anyone has any sugestions on how I can reword it so I can find a solution I would be much appreciative.
I asked for clarification about this once myself… it isn’t that peeps ‘don’t like’ the rules, it’s that the rules are confusing. I have no problem with rules and I appreciate being allowed to be a member here.
Perhaps if the rules were edited to read: “Discussions on illegal things are not allowed, except discussions regarding the illegal bypassing of copy protections is allowed when you do it to make a back-up of your own legally obtained software.”
Something like that? Perhaps stated a bit differently but with the same clarity?
Yes, I did read the Dutch laws… they’re the same as laws in America. The catch22 thing… back-ups are legal, bypassing copy protections isn’t.
Perhaps this is just a translation problem? Substitute ‘pirated software’ for ‘illegal things’? It seems that would stop the confusion.
my question is: is it legal to download a copy of a game or movie that you own the original to if you have trouble making the backup yourself. I once owned all these games which were destroyed in a fire and I didnt get the chance to make a backup so I downloaded them what about that senario.
yes, I have also asked the same questions and got the same confusing answers. It doesnt matter what country you live in the breaking or copy protection for any reason is illegal. In fact if you were to read the entire laws for the US you would see that it is also illegal to make backyups of even software you have purchased…you dont own the software and that is where the problems lie. Yes, you purchased a copy of a program,game,music and yet you do not own it. Dutch law is the same no-matter how you candy coat it…most ppl who want to get around the laws only choose those parts that best suit their purpose and do not quote the law as it orginally was written.
There is a thin line between right and wrong and whether you step across that line depends on what forum you are on and what country you are in. Since this forum is a multi-national forum the rules as written are not correct and only are for those who are in europe. The laws that should govern this forum should be the ones concerning International Copyright law. What is right in one country could be wrong in another.
before one of you smart guys tell me to find another forum if I dont like it here…I have found many other forums that also will help ppl just like you guys do…one needs only to look. Also, as an Admin and owner of several forums some legal and others not I have found many boarder line questions on this forum that have not received the notoridy that this one question has brought.
Please remove me from your membership as I have found somewhere else that I can really help ppl who have questions without fear of being censored.
Have a Merry Christmas!
could you tell me where that forum is because my problem is still unresolved and i’d like to go somewhere like you mentioned where I can speak without fear of using certain words.
If your original games were detroyed in a fire, your insurance will cover your lost.
Then you can buy the games again.
When you don’t own the games, it’s illegal to download and burn to a cd.
If your movies, games, software isn’t copy protected, then you are allowed one working backup copy under the fair-use doctrine in America… a subscriber to International Copyright Laws as are all European nations.
Games you download from an internet source will be pirated versions of the games and no discussions of pirated software is allowed… assuming I understand the rules correctly. No downloading of pirated software is legal, whether or not you bought a legal retail or not beforehand.
I know of no recent games/movies that have no copy protection. To have/make a copy necessitates circumventing the copy protection and that is illegal.
We aren’t allowed to discuss pirated software here. We can discuss and are given tutorials on how to bypass copy protection here. Confusing, I know… especially when they give the blanket statement about ‘illegal things’, but those are the rules.
Yes and CDFreaks have a forum on P2P. P2P is used almost exclusively to download pirated software and MP3 files. So it seems that this forum is running back and forth across the line. I don’t see what harm it did for Jimbob007 to ask his question. The answer should have been to provide him a reasonable explanation on why he cannot legally copy software or movies. In most cases you didn’t buy the software or movie, you bought a license to use the product. The license says it is illegal to copy or circumvent the protection in order to copy software or movies in most cases. People feel (Me included) that since they paid for the product they own it and therefore are entitled to back it up. I hope you don’t have to try to run that by the R.I.A.A. in court, YOU’ll LOSE!
It’s good to see that so many of you are interested in the legal issues. It’s very important as other websites have already been closed or warned. If I recall correctly e.g. CloneClinic has been shutdown by the UK authorities because it was not moderating according to the UK laws. We are extremely concerned about copyright laws that are being adopted in e.g. Europe and therefor we did a project together with Elby: http://www.euro-copyrights.org.
CD Freaks is located in the Netherlands (both servers and the management) and the Dutch law applies. On Euro-Copyrights.org you can find that according to the Dutch law you are allowed to create a private backup and there is no real legal stance on bypassing copyprotections over here. The law does say that removing the protection/cracking is illegal but on bypassing it there is no real decision made (yet). Mind you, this information is gathered by the Computer Law department of the University of Amsterdam and not made up by us or Elby.
We also feel that any device/software that can be used for legal or illegal practices which is not against the law (KaZaa is decided legal here), should be given the benefit of the doubt as over here you’re still not guilty till proven otherwise. However if you already tell us that you’ve downloaded something we can hardly believe that you go trough all difficulties to download a game while you own the original.
Mind you, our rules are governed by humans and humans can see things differently. So it can happen that one post is considered legal by one moderator while another moderator might have some doubt and close/delete it. Some things are simply on the egde and in many times our staff will take the safest decision. It’s not only to protect ourselves but also you. It would theoratically be possible that we have to give your IP address to the authorities.
Therefor never mention that you did something illegal (or make it reasonably obvious) and we won’t assume it. It might sound hypocrite to you but it’s how the legal system works.
Thank you for the explanation and comments, D.
I had expected courts in your country to have already ruled on this. [I did read the section on Dutch law]. It seems it hangs on what is considered ‘extraordinary measures’ to overcome the protection? Or do you feel the courts may rule against copy protection since it’s legal to own a working copy?
Do you know of any cases pending? Ty.
Jimbob, there are a lot of people on here who are on a high moral horse. Just try not to make it obvious that you wanna use this info for illegal purposes. I know it’s ridiculous because probably 99.5% of the people here have broken copyright laws repeatedly.
Maybe the mod could quote the rule(s) that are being broken, just before closing the thread?
This may seem a good idea, but this will also take more time for the mod when dealing with forum violations. Personally, I rather spend this time on users who stick to the rules and need help that I am able to provide.
Ok, I agree. But maybe for things that aren’t so obvious. Of course you could say ‘illegal downloading, closed’. But for things that aren’t as obvious as that, you could possibly quote what rule(s) were broken, to cause the thread to be closed.
that’s how we run our forums, usually a lot less confusion.
If you could see most of them in real life and their BU collection you would be surprised.