Ideal Audio CD backup


#21

I see. Thank you. An hour ago I was listening to an image made with clonecd - which had no glitch, now I am listening to waves ripped from the physical CD (with my LiteON drive), and I’ve already found two tracks with glitches.

The Clonecd claims it can remove the protection, and it seems it really can. I think I will go this way, with the images of the Clonecd, as I need a reliable process (can’t listen now to every saved CD to check the quality of the ripped tracks.)


#22

Out of those cds with CDS 200 (Cactus Data Shield) corruption I have, years later I eventually purchased later re-releases which had no drm on them for around $5 or $6 a pop brand new. (Such as Iron Maiden’s “Dance of Death”).

The other ones I don’t really listen to much anymore. I might pick up the Beatles Let It Be Naked one again, if I see a later pressing with no drm in the bargain bins. (I only really listen to normal Let It Be album).

If that 2002 Phil Collins cd is still too cantankerous, it might be worthwhile to buy the 2016 re-release with two discs? (I’m guessing a 2016 remaster will probably not have any extra basketcase drm on it, and might not be plagued with the “loudness war” problem which was common for many 2000s era new releases?)


#23

Does clonecd mention how exactly it is dealing with these glitches from deliberate bad sectors drm?

For example, does it:

  • Reread the bad sectors several times?
  • Interpolate over the missing data sectors?
  • Use c2 errors to find the locations of the missing data?
  • etc …

#24

It would be a solution for me if the new era of streaming wouldn’t come. Now, I would not buy a CD anymore. I would pay the plan for a streaming service and download the track/s at the same cd quality (tidal, etc). Of course, in the future, the things might change…


#25

There is documentation about this subject on the Internet, but I’ll rather believe them, especially if I can see it works. (On their official site there is not too much to read about it.) Some info here:

https://www.cdrinfo.com/sections/reviews/print.aspx?articleid=6079

It is about an old version, but mostly still relevant.


#26

I don’t have many audio cds with extra basketcase drm. The few I do have were mostly bargain bin (or thrift shop or garage sale) purchases, which I picked up for $1 a pop or less.

I more or less “replaced” my vinyl collection with the cd versions by the mid-1990s or so. (I was a kid of the late-1970s and 1980s). So by the time the early-mid 2000s extra basketcase drm was in full force (such as EMI/BMG “copy control”, etc …), there were no then-current cd titles which interested me.

During the 2000s decade, the few audio cds I purchased was mostly stuff released by indie labels where they only made 1000 or 2000 copies per title. For obvious reasons (ie. costs), they didn’t bother using any extra basketcase drm.


#27

I also have few protected CDs, but I am looking to establish a good process to backup all the CDs safely. Now I am thinking it would be a solution ripping them to wave if not protected, and imaging them first if protected then ripping the no(more)protected image. Anyway, with no technology, nothing can extract from a
CD more quality than a wave has (a wave is practically a cda with a header). And then I belive the ripping app can do enough trials to recover all that’s possible from an eventually scratched CD, which an imaging app would rather not do.

Still thinking at the best solution :slight_smile:


#28

Excluding the above mentioned EMI audio cd titles with “copy protection” CDS 200 drm with deliberate bad sectors, most of the other audio cds I have with extra basketcase drm were ones which didn’t corrupt the audio sectors deliberately.

I don’t know what their actual technical names were. They were ones which primarily had false information in the table of contents, and/or had a partition with a filesystem which installed something funny (such as *.exe, *.dll, etc … type of executable files) when the autorun isn’t turned off for a dvdr drive. As long as the actual audio data sectors were not corrupted, EAC could easily handle these discs.


#29

Back in the day (circa early 2000s), I remember having to deal with scratched up audio cd discs. In those days I was using the cdparanoia program on linux, which was good enough if there wasn’t too many scratches.

Nowadays instead of wasting my time attempting to salvage a heavily damaged audio cd disc, I end up just buying a new cd copy if it is not out-of-print. If I don’t feel like buying a new cd disc, I’ll just listen to the same thing on a streaming service or youtube.


#30

Yes, the things have changed (and they’re still changing).


#31

This may sound really really stupid. :wink:

These days when I’m really lazy and I don’t want to search through my collection to find a particular cd disc, I’ll end up looking up the same title on youtube and listen to it online.

(A lot of the music I still listen to, is available easily on youtube. Mostly indie releases from the 80s and early 90s).


#32

In practice as I got older, I found that I cared less and less about music. This may sound very distressing, considering that I was once a musician back in the day.

I find that of the audio cd discs I ripped to the computer, I only ever really listened to about 5 or 6 of them with any regularity at any one time. Otherwise my other cd rips were almost never played at all, other than eating up hard drive space.

When I came to this realization, that’s when I largely didn’t care anymore about ripping my audio cd collection to the computer. It would be completely pointless when I never listened to these rips at all.


#33

backup to flac. saves space, preserves the original quality, plenty of players support (except itunes).

i have converted files back and forth between wav and flac and end up with the same md5 hash every time.

then you also have tag (meta data support) though it is possible that has come to wav as well.

i use XLD on OS X or JRiver Media Center to back up my CDs


#34

What I remember from the audiocd-protections era,is that you need a supported drive to make proper backups…
Creating images of such discs with CloneCd or Alcohol 120% will get you a copy,but it will hold all errors and glitches if the cd is damaged or if there are any other audible errors on it.
For real 1:1 audio,you have to use programs like EAC or DBpoweramp which do a real digital audio extraction,not just a copy of the contents…


#35

Thank you very much to all of you for your answers.

I also believe that keeping the music in files is safer than keeping it in streams on CDs, which are prone to scratches and to reading errors. (I also noticed that many of the pc recorded audio CDs give me errors when I try to rip them now, after 20 years from recording, although they are not scratched.) I have chosen the uncompressed wave format as I have enough space nowadays with these low prices per GB of the HDD. I will build a 4TB RAID1 in my HTPC to store the audio/video collection.

I have also been an amateur musician. I played drums in a band for an year or so, back in the day when I was a student. I was also very passionate about electronics and music. (I graduated the Electronics highschool and then in 2000 the Electronics and Telecommunication faculty, specialising in Engineering Physics). Nowadays, all of these are just history. (I even formally reeducated myself in Economics, specializing in Management a few years ago.) Still, I have some nice memories that I would rather not let go. Maybe the music from the CD collection is important to me more in this respect.

My tastes in music changed somehow, too. Nowadays I would rather listen to classical music, and rather at the Opera or Athenaeum. (They are very cheap here were I live now.) Still, I sometimes find myself with a desire to listen to my old favorite pop/rock music collection. I also play them on YouTube when I am lazy, but what about when I want quality, or when I run, or travel, or drive?! While I still have the CDs I was thinking why not ripping them, just to have the music for any further need, when the CDs will not be around anymore. So will I do now :slight_smile:


#36

Nowadays I collect these audio cd discs with extra basketcase drm, largely to analyze and use them as “torture tests” on various dvdr drives I have. (Mostly $1 or $2 stuff I find at local charity thrift shops or garage sales).

Analyzing how exactly the drm functions, is more interesting than listening to the actual music itself on such basketcase discs.


#37

Definitely.

If one wants to see how much effort is involved in getting accuracy in digital audio extraction from cd discs, try reading through the C source code for cdparanoia.

https://ftp.osuosl.org/pub/xiph/releases/cdparanoia/

Even in its original state, cdparanoia was quite involved. (Cdparanoia hasn’t been updated since 2008).

Nowadays EAC et al are probably much more advanced than cdparanoia.


#38

Sounds funny :slight_smile:


#39

But it seems that it still serves it’s initial purpose quite well,as CDex is recently updated…
As for EAC,I think there will be no new version released anymore after the v1.3 from september 2016.
Mr. Wiethoff went shareware with Easy Audio Copy,a foolproof program based on EAC’s core…
It’s an interesting alternative for people who like accuracy,but don’t want to fiddle with a bunch of advanced settings.


#40

Back in the day I tried writing my own cd ripping program on linux. By chance I found out by trial and error that computer cdrom players were not always 100% reliable when extracting digital audio data. Extracting a sector with a particular lba, did not always give back the exact same/correct data on independent re-reads.

My primitive cd ripper attempted to do re-reads and compared the different re-reads to see which ones were most likely to be the correct ones. In the end, my program wasn’t much better than burst mode on EAC. (Back then I was unaware of the cdrom drive’s cache issue).

As far as I could tell from reading the cdparanoia code, it went way beyond what I wrote/conjectured about cdrom drives back in the day.