I hope this isn't an omen of things to come

The DJIA had a rough day today. In fact, it was the worst Inauguration Day loss ever.

“U.S. stocks sank, sending the Dow Jones Industrial Average to its worst Inauguration Day decline, as speculation banks must raise more capital sent financial shares to an almost 14-year low.”

Click her for the full story.

Meh. I’m not reading too much into it.

Considering how bad the market has been doing lately, I’m not going to predict nothing but doom and gloom the next four years.

Heard on Wall Street today…“Uh-oh…he’s on to us.”…

[QUOTE=pipemanid;2202389]Heard on Wall Street today…“Uh-oh…he’s on to us.”…[/QUOTE]

… or “Uh-oh he doesn’t know how to fix this mess” or “Uh-oh he is going to make things a lot worse.” Take your pick because it is likely one of these three. :wink:

Or the greedy banks want some more of the new package coming up this week.Like they did not get enough already from us taxpayers.

Not even 24 hours in office and ODS has started.

no kidding… I am struggling everyday to pay bills,… where’s MY handout? SURE as hell not coming from any of those BANKS! :stuck_out_tongue:

[QUOTE=Bob;2202412]Not even 24 hours in office and ODS has started.[/QUOTE]

:bigsmile:

You will know I have ODS when I wish Bush was back in office. :wink:

[QUOTE=BukowskiSoul;2202413]no kidding… I am struggling everyday to pay bills,… where’s MY handout? SURE as hell not coming from any of those BANKS! :p[/QUOTE]

I will have to admit that the hypocrisy of the banks have possibly exceeded the hypocrisy of our politicians and that is no easy task to accomplish.

How’s this … limit credit card qty to 3 … maximum combined credit (cards) limit available to be limited to 1/3 of their annual income.
Independent review of the value of an asset, before handing out loans - don’t mention the cost … a huge proportion of the USA is now unemployed … and the government will be handing out welfare for 6 months anyway :stuck_out_tongue:
Maximum credit based unsolicited correspondence/offers to be limited to 1 per year from any company to any individual/household - Huge fines apply for non-compliance.
And some serious government regulation of the credit/loans industry.

That would put the USA right … now for the rest of the world :stuck_out_tongue:

Unfortunately, the whole world is running on money that doesn’t exist … values of many things are over-inflated (entire corporations included). It’s only when the money flow stops that this becomes evident … and the bubble bursts … and the CEO’s clean out what’s left of the company and run, and leave the stockholders with nothing :stuck_out_tongue:

They just said: “yes, we can.” and made it even worse…

[QUOTE=chef;2202722]They just said: “yes, we can.” and made it even worse…[/QUOTE]

I think the stock market told us yesterday “No, you can’t.” They see the nationalization of the banking industry as a horrible move by the government. Socialist measures will not get us out of this mess. It didn’t work in the Great Depression and it won’t work now. For all the government spending FDR created through the 1930s the unemployment rate was still nearly 20% by the start of WWII. The war got us out of the Great Depression not FDR and his socialist policies. Socialist policies just kicks the can further down the road and doesn’t solve anything but will eventually make it far worse. The burden of the governments on the private sector is getting to the point that it can no longer support all this excessive government spending. The ox can no longer pull the cart.

[QUOTE=UTR;2202784]I think the stock market told us yesterday “No, you can’t.” They see the nationalization of the banking industry as a horrible move by the government. Socialist measures will not get us out of this mess.[/QUOTE]The mess that unfettered, unregulated capitalism got us into… [QUOTE=UTR;2202784]It didn’t work in the Great Depression and it won’t work now.[/QUOTE]"[I]To be sure, you can credibly argue that the New Deal had its share of problems. But overall, the numbers prove it helped – rather than hurt – the macroeconomy."[/I] [I]“Excepting 1937-1938, unemployment fell each year of Roosevelt’s first two terms [while] the U.S. economy grew at average annual growth rates of 9 percent to 10 percent,” [/I]writes University of California historian Eric Rauchway…The unemployment spike in the 1937-1938 period was caused by FDR’s attempt to appease the conservative critics of his policies and reduce government spending…
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/Timeline.htm

[QUOTE=UTR;2202784] For all the government spending FDR created through the 1930s the unemployment rate was still nearly 20% by the start of WWII. [/QUOTE]The result of the policies of Warren Harding, Calvin Coolidge, and Herbert Hoover…All proponents of laissez-faire and a non-interventionist government…

[QUOTE=UTR;2202784]The war got us out of the Great Depression not FDR and his socialist policies.[/QUOTE]Are you proposing that another World War is necessary to solve our present economic meltdown? [QUOTE=UTR;2202784] Socialist policies just kicks the can further down the road and doesn’t solve anything but will eventually make it far worse. The burden of the governments on the private sector is getting to the point that it can no longer support all this excessive government spending. The ox can no longer pull the cart.[/QUOTE] I find it hard to believe that a change in course would be any more harmful to our economy that the policies responsible for our present situation…

An Aside:
[B]“Alarmed by Roosevelt’s plan to redistribute wealth from the rich to the poor, a group of millionaire businessmen, led by the Du Pont and J.P. Morgan empires, plans to overthrow Roosevelt with a military coup and install a fascist government. The businessmen try to recruit General Smedley Butler, promising him an army of 500,000, unlimited financial backing and generous media spin control. The plot is foiled when Butler reports it to Congress.” Prescott Bush, Dubya’s grandfather, was one of the supporters of this coup…[/B]

Just before WWII the unemployment rate was at 18% and at the peak the rates were around 25%. If you call that acceptable after eight years of FDR’s policies at work, then your standard of what is acceptable is way different than mine. Many think FDR’s socialist policies prolonged the Great Depression and their is ample evidence to support these claims. One thing is for sure, FDR’s socialist policies didn’t come close to eliminating the Depression. WWII eliminated it and it had little to do with his economic policies. BTW, you want to blame capitalism for causing the Great Depression but you don’t want to give it the credit for eliminating it. Capitalism has also given us all the economic boom periods we have enjoyed in this country. You can’t trash it on one hand and not praise it on the other. Overall, capitalism has always been the best way to provide a high standard of living and strong economy. Now the government has grown so large that capitalism can no longer support it.

Obama is not proposing a change in course from what has been done for decades. Where is he changing the course? He is just proposing bigger government and more spending. Where is the change with this? The fact is, he has yet to propose any change. It is really more of the same only he is dishing up a triple serving of it. If he wants to change things then actually reduce government size and spending. Then enact massive tax cuts across the board from corporate rates to personal income rates. No one in Congress or the White House (I include Bush and Republicans in this group too) understands that the private sector can no longer support a massive government. This includes government at federal, state and local levels. They are screwing with collapsing our entire economic model and if that happens the rest of the world will fall into the same abyss with us. Government will not fix our economy. Only the private sector can do it because they are the only way to create jobs and wealth. Without wealth creation (this include home equity, savings, stocks etc.) there is only economic stagnation. Look at the socialist countries that have been stagnant for decades or plain failed and you will see what discontent and suffering it brings to a population.

[QUOTE=UTR;2202948]Just before WWII the unemployment rate was at 18% and at the peak the rates were around 25%. If you call that acceptable after eight years of FDR’s policies at work, then your standard of what is acceptable is way different than mine. [/QUOTE] Exactly where did I say what was an acceptable level of unemployment? Attacking a position that I never took is a dishonest attempt to obscure my point…

[QUOTE=UTR;2202948] Many think FDR’s socialist policies prolonged the Great Depression and their is ample evidence to support these claims. One thing is for sure, FDR’s socialist policies didn’t come close to eliminating the Depression.[/QUOTE]His policies did help a significant number of US citizens…Does “For the General Welfare” ring a bell? [QUOTE=UTR;2202948] WWII eliminated it and it had little to do with his economic policies. [/QUOTE] Care to enlighten us on the cause of WWII?[QUOTE=UTR;2202948] BTW, you want to blame capitalism for causing the Great Depression but you don’t want to give it the credit for eliminating it.[/QUOTE]I believe you just credited WWII with eliminating the Great Depression…So you’re equating WWII with capitalism? [QUOTE=UTR;2202948] Capitalism has also given us all the economic boom periods we have enjoyed in this country. You can’t trash it on one hand and not praise it on the other.[/QUOTE]Selective attribution is another one of your methods UTR…I said "unfettered, unregulated capitalism ", not all of capitalism…

[QUOTE=UTR;2202948]Obama is not proposing a change in course from what has been done for decades. Where is he changing the course? He is just proposing bigger government and more spending. Where is the change with this? The fact is, he has yet to propose any change. It is really more of the same only he is dishing up a triple serving of it. If he wants to change things then actually reduce government size and spending. Then enact massive tax cuts across the board from corporate rates to personal income rates. No one in Congress or the White House (I include Bush and Republicans in this group too) understands that the private sector can no longer support a massive government. This includes government at federal, state and local levels.[/QUOTE]You continually propose “massive tax cuts”, but to date there has been no documented proof that prolonged economic stimulus is gained by these cuts…The “borrow and spend” policies of previous administrations has just moved the cost out to future generations…Purportedly to be paid for by increased economic activity resulting from your proposed cuts…It hasn’t worked yet…

[QUOTE=pipemanid;2202967]Exactly where did I say what was an acceptable level of unemployment? Attacking a position that I never took is a dishonest attempt to obscure my point…[/QUOTE]

Maybe I misunderstood you. Are you saying FDR’s socialist policies didn’t work?

[QUOTE=pipemanid;2202967]His policies did help a significant number of US citizens…Does “For the General Welfare” ring a bell?[/QUOTE]

I guess he helped maybe 7% (25%-18%) of the population after eight years of effort. Not nearly enough, IMO.

[QUOTE=pipemanid;2202967]Care to enlighten us on the cause of WWII?I believe you just credited WWII with eliminating the Great Depression…So you’re equating WWII with capitalism?[/QUOTE]

Actually, it was appeasement that caused WWII which was preceded by the Allies’ need to punish Germany excessively after WWI. I don’t revise history to make debate points. Of course WWII ended the Great Depression. If it didn’t then enlighten me on what did end it. It seems you are trying to tie capitalism as the cause of WWII. If so, you are going down a dead end trail with this line of reasoning. I will say without hesitation that capitalism allowed the Allies to win WWII. That is beyond dispute.

[QUOTE=pipemanid;2202967]Selective attribution is another one of your methods UTR…[/QUOTE]

You can type this after what you just said above? :wink:

[QUOTE=pipemanid;2202967]I said "unfettered, unregulated capitalism ", not all of capitalism…[/QUOTE]

So now capitalism is good?

[QUOTE=pipemanid;2202967]You continually propose “massive tax cuts”, but to date there has been no documented proof that prolonged economic stimulus is gained by these cuts…[/QUOTE]

You can’t be serious. It is proven time and again that cutting taxes increases revenue to the government. It is why cutting taxes is a staple in the playbook for ending recessions. Look into the increase in government revenue after the Reagan, 1994 Congress and Bush II tax cuts. You do know that if Congress would have controlled their spending we would have massive surpluses and the national debt would be all but paid off. The trouble is that when revenue increases our idiotic politicians increase spending and blow it all. Cutting taxes absolutely works in promoting a strong economy.

[QUOTE=pipemanid;2202967]The “borrow and spend” policies of previous administrations has just moved the cost out to future generations…Purportedly to be paid for by increased economic activity resulting from your proposed cuts…It hasn’t worked yet…[/QUOTE]

Are you saying that after substantial tax cuts the revenue to the government doesn’t increase? I assume you aren’t because you would be dead wrong if you did say it. Also, tax increases do the opposite. They reduce the revenue to the government in the long run.

The real problem is that Congress can’t stop increasing spending when they get the extra money into their hands. This concept isn’t rocket science and it is plain to understand for anyone that can reason just a little. The government can solve the budget problem by cutting taxes and holding spending increases to zero or even 1-2%. If they actually reduced spending then we might even have a hope of paying down the national debt. If they don’t do this soon we may go past the tipping point and never correct things. Especially with all the Baby Boomers retiring.

A huge proportion of the U.S. is unemployed?
I give up trying to defend the U.S. People just want to believe garbage, let them. I give you credit UTR but I think you are “casting pearls to swine”.

[QUOTE=Zathros;2203077]I give you credit UTR but I think you are “casting pearls to swine”.[/QUOTE]

I am just doing my part in trying to educate the misinformed and to undo the brainwashing that has been done to too many people by the press, our inept politicians and political organizations like Move0n.org etc. :wink:

[QUOTE=UTR;2202992]Maybe I misunderstood you. [/QUOTE]How can you misunderstand something that was never said? Much like the “I thought you said” position…An attempt to obscure the original point…

[QUOTE=UTR;2202992]Are you saying FDR’s socialist policies didn’t work?[/QUOTE]I never said that either…Where do you come up with this stuff?

Tax Federal GNP Unemp.
Year Receipts Spending Growth Rate

1929 – – – 3.2% < Hoover era, Great Depression begins
1930 4.2% 3.4% - 9.4% 8.7
1931 3.7 4.3 - 8.5 15.9
1932 2.9 7.0 -13.4 23.6
1933 3.5 8.1 - 2.1 24.9 < FDR, New Deal begins; contraction ends March
1934 4.9 10.8 + 7.7 21.7
1935 5.3 9.3 + 8.1 20.1
1936 5.1 10.6 +14.1 16.9
1937 6.2 8.7 + 5.0 14.3 < recession begins, May
1938 7.7 7.8 - 4.5 19.0 < recession ends, June
1939 7.2 10.4 + 7.9 17.2
1940 6.9 9.9
1941 7.7 12.1
1942 10.3 24.8
1943 13.7 44.8
1944 21.7 45.3
1945 21.3 43.7

[QUOTE=UTR;2202992]I guess he helped maybe 7% (25%-18%) of the population after eight years of effort. Not nearly enough, IMO.[/QUOTE]
The economic and social programs passed during FDR’s tenure provided a safety net for an untold number of future generations…

[QUOTE=UTR;2202992]It seems you are trying to tie capitalism as the cause of WWII.[/QUOTE]Prominent US corporations and banks provided financial support to Germany’s expansionist policies…While not being solely responsible for WWII they did help in their support of the industrial base in Germany…Not everything is black and white…

[QUOTE=UTR;2202992]You can type this after what you just said above? ;)[/QUOTE]
"[I]FDR’s socialist policies didn’t come close to eliminating the Depression. WWII eliminated it and it had little to do with his economic policies."[/I]…Sound familiar?

[QUOTE=UTR;2202992]So now capitalism is good?[/QUOTE] When controlled and regulated…Again, it’s not all black and white…Moderation in everything…

[QUOTE=UTR;2202992]You can’t be serious. It is proven time and again that cutting taxes increases revenue to the government.[/QUOTE] Then you should have no trouble providing documented proof for that assertion…

[QUOTE=UTR;2202992] Look into the increase in government revenue after the Reagan, 1994 Congress and Bush II tax cuts.[/QUOTE] Ronnie Raygun increased the National Debt threefold during his tenure…Dubya doubled it…
Neither had a balanced budget…At least Slick Willie left a budget surplus…

1945 - The top tax rate is 91 percent. It will stay at least 88 percent until 1963, when it is lowered to 70 percent. During this time, America will experience the greatest economic boom it has ever known. While I don’t support confiscatory tax rates, this bit of information shows something different that what you put forward…