How to verify good burns?

vbimport

#1

Sorry for the dumb question… but…

How can I verify that my burns are ok? I mainly burn data, not video. I only have the A07/107D. Is there a utility to use with it that gives the PI/PO data reliably?

If not, is there any other way? I’m burning G04’s at 8x with NILs firmware and I want to make sure they are good burns before I wipe the data from my hard drive. If they aren’t good burns, I’ll just go back to burning at 4x, but if I can get away with good burns at 8x, I’m sticking to it. I know I can look at others’ Kprobe results, but from what I understand Riteks vary from batch to batch so I want to make sure MINE work with MY A07/107D. Kprobe doesn’t work reliably with anything other than Liteons, correct?

Thanks!


#2

there’s a program called CDCheck that can verify if all the data written is readable so it’s safe to delete the data from the HDD, also with RNM and Nero you can verify the disc in the end of the writing. All of these do not tell you the quality of the disc but at least you know all the data is readable


#3

Right, Yeah, I mean I understand how to verify the data, and I guess that’s all I care about… but was wondering if you can run (reliably) Kprobe, or a similar program ON the Pioneer (rather than a Liteon).

Another question I have I spose is this… if these discs I am burning have obnoxious PI/PO numbers, yet the data still verifies properly… should I even care? So long as I am able to read, and verify the data… should it make a difference? So long as this drive, and others can read it, any need to worry about those numbers at all? If not, why is it such a big deal on this forum? Granted, I understand that we all want the best quality burns, but a lot of folks here seem pretty focused on those numbers, and I’m wondering… do they really need to be THAT worried about them? (Other than just for the sake of being technically picky)… I can fully understand the folks writing the firmwares to be full-on concerned about them… but your average Joe consumer?

-Mike-


#4

Hi. I asked that question a few weeks past and
without positive answer. There is no such soft for Pioneer.
:frowning:


#5

my personal opinion…and it may seem low tech//////

can you read the burn on the device you burned it for?

does it do or play the way you wanted it to?

if answer is yes both questions…you have a good burn…:slight_smile:


#6

there’s no program to do PI/PO checks on any other drive besides liteons i think, and you can only do on them because kprobe was leaked from liteon, otherwise there would be no way at all to do that, also i think there’s something on liteon drives that let them read the whole disc without trying to fix the errors and i think other drives can’t do that (note: i read about this a long time ago so it may be inacurrate information).
The PI/PO number can be considered important when you are comparing drives and/or comparing media, making them one factor when you decide to buy a new drive and new media, that’s why there are so many posts of kprobe scans, but if the disc is readable on your drives then it shouldn’t matter much


#7

It’s half truth.

For example:

Disc 1 -> GoodBurn -> readable -> low error level -> after some time (year?) and used -> have not so clean surface but … readable !!!

Disc 2 - > PoorBurn -> readable -> high error level -> after some time -> will go to trash.

shortly: better test and burn again if needed.


#8

I’m not so sure about (2).

It isn’t necessarily the case that a “marginal” burn will go bad over time. For example, if a TY disc is burned badly, the data will still last a good long time. Generally, it seems to be brands, not bad burns, that go bad over time – and then only if handled in a bad way.

I’ve only ever had two brands of disc go bad over time – one an early, reject Princo disc (white-top Bulkpaq) and the other Vivastar media. All other discs are OK a year later. It’s hard to say which will last 2,3,4,5 years though.

IMHO a bad burn (high KProbe count) doesn’t mean the disc isn’t perfectly suitable for purpose. If it still plays, who cares really? No disc is guaranteed to last for ever anyway. One bad disc in a batch of 100 TYs may still go down after 6 months, even if burned perfectly. Manufacturing defects are impossible to predict a lot of the time.


#9

I agree with washu…

Parity is used to correct corrupt data…by nature, optical media is susceptable to data error. This error will be increased under normal handling (scratches, dirt, dings, scuffs, and whatever). If you have a freshly burned disk scanned with marginal, but playable, PI/PO error, you may find that a micro scratch may be just enough to overcome your players ability to correct these errors. This results in skips, pixelation, freezing or data crc error (unrecoverable).

Starting with lowest possible PI/PO error has to help with longevity.

There is not enough data to determine the effects of environmental rot. I feel most people who claim their disks have failed after a year or two, have not tested them properly to begin with or are seeing this “micro scratch” issue.

my 2 cents…


#10

Ah, yes but that’s a different matter. Scratches etc aren’t really a product of longevity as such are they? I can scratch a disc so it can’t be read within a few seconds; that’s not a reflection on the quality of the disc.

As you say the environmental effects are difficult to predict or measure, and there isn’t much real data on the issue with regard to DVDRs yet. I tend to agree that after short periods (6 months etc) most discs that don’t read will be as a result of scratches coupled with high initial error rates in the main.

But if you keep a badly-burned TY disc, which still reads, in its box for 10 years, and do not take it out at all during that time, locking it away in a dark, safe place, that disc is still likely to be readable after the 10 years is up. Of course high error rates don’t help; what I’m saying is that you cannot just put discs into categories of “will last, won’t last” based on PI/PO error rates which may not even be accurate when scanned on LiteOn hardware anyway and there are so many other factors to consider in any case.

As ever, the absence of (systematic) proof of the effects of environmental rot is not the same as proof of absence.


#11

Originally posted by jase
Ah, yes but that’s a different matter. Scratches etc aren’t really a product of longevity as such are they? I can scratch a disc so it can’t be read within a few seconds; that’s not a reflection on the quality of the disc.

I disagree…longetivity isn’t only a function of how long it lasts in a cryogenically sealed container. Unless that’s what you want to do with your dvd’s… :confused: Normal usage plays a big role.


As you say the environmental effects are difficult to predict or measure, and there isn’t much real data on the issue with regard to DVDRs yet. I tend to agree that after short periods (6 months etc) most discs that don’t read will be as a result of scratches coupled with high initial error rates in the main.

Longevity…or early rot (doubtfully, but just maybe).

[B]
But if you keep a badly-burned TY disc, which still reads, in its box for 10 years, and do not take it out at all during that time, locking it away in a dark, safe place, that disc is still likely to be readable after the 10 years is up. Of course high error rates don’t help; what I’m saying is that you cannot just put discs into categories of “will last, won’t last” based on PI/PO error rates which may not even be accurate when scanned on LiteOn hardware anyway and there are so many other factors to consider in any case.

As ever, the absence of (systematic) proof of the effects of environmental rot is not the same as proof of absence. [/B]

Agreed…but I’ll take my chances with the lowest possible PI/PO error to fight against rot AND normal handling (= longevity).


#12

Back to the subject of verifying good burns… There’s a way to verify CD quality with Nero CD/DVD Speed. However, there’s no such utility for DVD verification. Any idea why?

Speaking of Nero CD/DVD Speed, if I run CD Quality test, my Pioneer 107D produces flawless curve and no C2 errors on everything I’ve tried. I was getting some C2 errors pretty much on every CD I tried in my old LiteOn CDR drive, but Pioneer reports perfect results! This is almost “too good to be true” situation, I’m starting to wonder if perhaps Pioneer doesn’t report errors after correcting them?

As far as the DVD verification goes, I noticed the guy who reviewed Pioneer 107D included screenshots of the Nero Speed test. I tried it on a copule of DVDs and got a perfect curve. But does this test really mean anything?

-GK


#13

Originally posted by Hawseman
[B]I agree with washu…

Parity is used to correct corrupt data…by nature, optical media is susceptable to data error. This error will be increased under normal handling (scratches, dirt, dings, scuffs, and whatever). If you have a freshly burned disk scanned with marginal, but playable, PI/PO error, you may find that a micro scratch may be just enough to overcome your players ability to correct these errors. This results in skips, pixelation, freezing or data crc error (unrecoverable).

Starting with lowest possible PI/PO error has to help with longevity.

There is not enough data to determine the effects of environmental rot. I feel most people who claim their disks have failed after a year or two, have not tested them properly to begin with or are seeing this “micro scratch” issue.

my 2 cents… [/B]

I’ve been burning my disks and I’m getting a good amount of PI but almost nonexistant PO is this good or bad??
If I burn my Ritek g04 at 4x I get this. If I burn at 6 I get lots of both.

Thank you for any info.
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