How to interpret CD/DVD Speed graphs?

vbimport

#1

Forgive me if there are posts here on the forums that go into detail about this but I can’t find any. I’m lost as how to interpret the graphs on the disc quality test. I’ve seen people mention here that the quality score doesn’t mean too much depending on the circumstances or hardware used.

For instance, this:

Why the crazy high PIE spikes at the 3gb mark and on? I’ve noticed that ussually happens at the layer break, but here it happens early. In general, why would the second layer be prone to that and the first not?

What is “acceptable” for PIE and PIF? What does jitter actually mean and how does it affect the overall quality of the disk?

Ugh… So many questions. I understand if you guys don’t want to explain in detail but are there any links you can throw my way to help me understand? It would be much appreciated.

I’ve had some bad luck with certain media codes and I’m starting to take all this stuff seriously. I’ve found by experience, and by word of mouth, that the Made In Singapore Verbatim’s and Taio Yuden DVD-R’s are the best so that’s all I buy anymore. Now that I’m getting good media, I’d like to break it down further and understand what’s going on.

One last graph for another burn if you guys don’t mind. This looks really bad to me but I suppose that’s because I don’t understand it. It was one giant 8gb ISO file that I backed up as is. Do larger files tend to generate more errors? And again, why does the second layer typically always radically differ from the first?

Thanks all for your help.


#2

I’d suggest you ask the mods to move this to the CD DVD Testing subforum.


#3

Sorry all. Looking at the bottom of this page, it lists several similar threads about my topic… Guess I didn’t search very well. If anyone wants to comment on the 2nd layer issue, feel free but it looks like I’ll be able to find the info I need now…

Judging from what little I’ve read thus far, those are pretty good burns. Especially since it seems my benq drive is good at scanning disks (it’s an acurate report).


#4

I’ll move this to the Media Testing/Identifying forum.


#5

Seems ok. You will most likely often have more errors in the second layer, creating that wall of PIE that begins in the second layer.

Scanning with a liteon, that disc would probably only show 2000PIF. It’s really not much for 8GB of data.


#6

O.k… After LOTS of reading I’m starting to pick things up. I have 2 questions if you guys don’t mind. Here is a scan on a MIS Verbatim. I was insanely happy about it until it got to the very end… Would anyone be concerned with that group of PIF spikes? Seems that 16 is the make or break level for my benq, no? Interestingly enough, the layer break always seems to happen at exactly half of the data that your trying to burn. And here, I get hardly no fluctuation on the second layer… But that group of PIF’s has me wondering.

Question 2. Does anyone know where you can still purchase the MIS Verbatims on-line? I ordered 2 cake boxes from newegg. They depicted the orange label and all the reviews stated they were MIS but they sent me the purple label India ones. I’m RMA’ing them right now…:a

They sell purple label MIS Verbatims at Microcenter, but they are 40 USD for 15!!! That’s 15 bucks more than what you find on-line… Does anyone know where I can still find the MIS ones for sure without taking your chances and reading the label once you get them?

Thanks everyone…



#7

[quote=jong357;2008467]Would anyone be concerned with that group of PIF spikes? Seems that 16 is the make or break level for my benq, no?[/quote] I wouldn’t be happy at all about the PIF “hill” starting at 5.4 GB.

Interestingly enough, the layer break always seems to happen at exactly half of the data that your trying to burn.
The layer break will often be at about half the data you’re trying to burn, but it can be anywhere from half the data and up to half the capacity of the disc.


#8

I woudn’t be happy about the “PIF hill” either. What speed was that one burnt @?

Btw, have you burnt the Verbatim MII yet? I would burn them @ a reasonable speed and if they’re complete crap I would send them back but they will probably work perfectly.


#9

Thanks for the responses…That was burnt at 4x. Seems every time I try to burn at 2.4x, the burn process fails in the very beginning so I’ve been burning at 4x for ever. Both single and dual layer disks.

I have tried the MII disks and my coaster rate was at 80% or more. Never bothered scanning any of the “good” ones tho. Maxell won’t even start the burn. I’m guessing the MID isn’t in my firmware and Ritek just makes drink coasters every time…

I’ve already got an RMA number and shipping label for those MII disks. Don’t think I’m going to even try using them. I may get flak if I try to send an open box back. They’re not even supposed to RMA “consumables” but Newegg is cool like that…

I’m clueless on what DL media to buy except for MIS Verbatum. Do you guys recommend any brands that give good scan results? If the cost of disks don’t go down soon, I’ll probably be abandoning DL all together and raring stuff into pieces and/or using dvdshrink. When you can get 100 TY’s for 30 bucks, it doesn’t make too much sense to use DL…:wink:

Annoying having stuff span 2 disks, but I think I’ll live…


#10

Nah DL is unreliable IMO. Even if you get a good burn, it’s more fragile to scratches and has less chance of working in players.

I recently got 150 SL discs for 40 bucks! And they’re good discs too!


#11

Well, you talked me into it and I cracked open a box… Bad idea. :doh:

2.4x was the only burning speed listed in Nero. Somewhere about half way thru burning a 6gb ISO as-is on UDF, it bombs. Then it fails to finalize the disk so I have to reboot just to get the disk out. That’s about what I expected to be honest.

Dunno whether to blame this on my aging firmware or on the disk… The MIS’s atleast burn at 4x and produce fairly good graphs. I’m gonna say it’s the MII disk. They bumped the MID code up on these.

Tried again with ‘create disk’ and it seemed to lock up at the end so I took a snap shot early. Bout a minute later it gave me the total time and indicated that it was closed under disc info but now nothing can read it.

Oh well. Thanks again for your time guys. Back to single layer I guess.




#12

Who am I kidding? I never give up that easy. :slight_smile:

I’ve known for years that my benq abhors writing at 2.4x… Also, the MKM 001’s write at 4x… AND I know these MKM 003’s are pretty recent. So, I got to thinking that my firmware was using some bogus write strategy on these disks when it should have been using MKM 001.

Downloaded MediaCodeSpeedEdit from here in the Benq forums, grabbed TDB’s firmware installer and added MKM 003 to the firmware, then told it to use the MKM 001 write strategy… Reflashed my drive and now I can burn to them no problem @ 4x…

The Quality Scans are another matter tho… :Z I think I’m gonna have to blame that one on MII media but I won’t know for sure until I burn a couple more (if I burn a couple more). Trying to decide on whether or not I should cut and run before it’s too late to RMA them…

The scan was beautiful right until the layer break. Had a max of 13 PIE and 8 PIF. Jitter was even the lowest I’ve seen it at 8%. Then it went down the toilet as you can see. That was the same 6gb ISO I burned before re-flashing. I mounted it and installed the entire program. All the data was accessed so… I don’t know. Whada’ do? Waste another $2.40 and see if it’s better next time?

I’m starting to agree with you Pirate… DL’s just kinda blow…



#13

Here is the same 6gb ISO only burned with the “burn image” function ala 1:1. Same exact burn as the earlier “pif hill” one, only this is on a MII 8x instead of the slower MIS counterpart.

I can live with it but the PIF’s are a little high; still within the “acceptable” limit from what I understand tho. I’m starting to wonder if the UDF filesystem might be prone to producing more errors than ISO9660? Thoughts anyone or is it my imagination?



#14

Here is a completely different UDF DVD… Again, issues at the layer break… I’m only noticing this on large files via UDF… My first 2 scans in this thread were UDF also but on MIS Verbatims. Had typical jumps at the layer break, but not this bad.



#15

O.k… Last time I post… Promise. :iagree:

Did one last burn and scan of the same 6gb iso burned directly to disk on a UDF filesystem. I like to back the iso’s up and not burn them 1:1… This time around the scan looks pretty damn good IMO… Not the best but certainly passable.

Maybe this MII media isn’t so bad after all and the problem I’m having is with DL disks in general. The problem being that they are just too unreliable to get consistently good burns “every time”… Dunno. That seems to be what I’ve learned from this exercise.

Thanks again for your input… I’ve certainly learned alot over the past week. Hopefully this thread will rank high if anyone searches for MKM 003 Verbatim Benq 1620 MII Made In India …