How legal IS KaZaA afterall...?

vbimport

#1

Hello everyone, this is my first thread and if it is pointless i apologize to the moderators for giving them one more thread to delete :bigsmile:

But i just have one thing to ask and dunno where 2 put it:

I have recently found out that the Dutch Supreme Court has declared KaZaA to be perfectly legal and not responsible for the “illegal” material distributed. However, my query involves the liabilities of the users.

In other words, if I, a user of KaZaA / KaZaA Lite K++ / KaZaA Lite Resurrection, living in the Netherlands, runs a search for a song (ie Static-X - Cold) or a movie (Underworld) and so on, and then simply download the song/movie … is that or isn’t it illegal? (i am aware that sharing copyrighted material is illegal, but my question is if i download something off the KaZaA network, am I violating any laws?).

Furthermore, if the actual download is illegal, how safe is it to use the P2P software then? … can you get caught/charged with anything if you download off KaZaA (but are a d*ck and don’t upload).

That about sums up what I wanned to know. Any answers and suggestions will be greatly appreciated and I again apologize for any inconveniences that this thread has caused :bow:


#2

You’re not downloading on the Kazaa network , you’re downloading from someone else’s computer. That you use Kazaa network for this , doesn’t justify it. AFAIK your client software connects directly to the other computer.

Both are guilty. The sharer for sharing content he/she/it doesn’t have the right to ; the downloader for obtaining the content in a way which is prohibited by the copyright of the content.

Examples

Case 1 : You are downloading 3 Mandrake Linux ISO files from Pete’s computer. No problem here. Pete has the right to share it , and you have the right to obtain it this way.

Case 2 : You are downloading 2700 RAR files , which after unpacking give you Disney’s Brother Bear in DVD format VOB files. Pete doesn’t has the right to share this content (no matter what he did with it) and you do not have the rights to obtain it this way.

Safe ? Well what’s safe ? If the Feds want you , they would have you by now. The thing is , thanks to the lovely way the law is set up , the Justice departments doesn’t have the time , manpower nor money to charge small fry.


#3

Thanx a lot 4 the info, i’ll be careful not 2 over-use it then and just get stuff i really really need :wink: … dont wanna risk too much :cop:


#4

Your entitled to download and/or copy music (cds) and movies for personal use under the Dutch copyright act. Also, "Brein"has stated that the public is allowed to download and/or copy music and movies for personal use.


#5

Originally posted by Johnie
Your entitled to download and/or copy music (cds) and movies for personal use under the Dutch copyright act. Also, "Brein"has stated that the public is allowed to download and/or copy music and movies for personal use.

Que :confused: Can you show me these statements , because AFAIK , you can only make backups of your own media.


#6

Mr Belvedere,

Sorry for the delay in answering your question. But I was very bussy with other things.

My statemetns are based on art. 16.b under 1 of the Dutch Copyright Act of 1912

"Als inbreuk op het auteursrecht op een werk van letterkunde, wetenschap of kunst wordt niet beschouwd, (…) de verveelvoudiging, welke beperkt blijft tot enkele exemplaren en uitsluitend dient tot eigen oefening, studie of gebruik van degene die de verveelvoudiging vervaardigt of tot het verveelvoudigen uitsluitend ten behoeve van zichzelf opdracht geeft.

See also the webpage www.iusmentis.com/auteursrecht/nl/thuiskopie/

“De thuiskopie in het Nederlands auteursrecht
Op grond van artikel 16b Auteurswet 1912 mag men enkele exemplaren van een werk maken voor eigen oefening, studie of gebruik. Dit heet een thuiskopie. Een dergelijke kopie mag niet aan derden ter beschikking worden gesteld. Het is niet vereist dat je het origineel zelf gekocht hebt om een thuiskopie van een werk te mogen maken.”

See on the internet als the website of www.anti-piracy.nl (the official site of Brein).

Mag ik voor iemand anders kopieën maken van cd’s, MP3-bestanden of van andere muziek en films?
Nee. Beeld en geluid mag u uitsluitend voor uzelf ‘thuiskopiëren’. Volgens de Auteurswet van 1912 mag iedereen, zonder voorafgaande toestemming van de auteur “voor eigen oefening, studie of gebruik” zelf een kopie maken van bv. een cd of een MP3-muziekfile. Daar betaalt u ook een kleine heffing voor wanneer u een blanco drager koopt. Meerdere kopieën maken, uitlenen, verhuren of verkopen is niet toegestaan zonder toestemming van de rechthebbenden. Deze uitzondering geldt niet voor computersoftware, waaronder ook computerspellen. Die mogen dus helemaal niet gekopiëerd worden. "

Regarding the downloading question. This was mentioned in an interview published on the internet with T. Kuik of Brein. If I remember correctly the webpage was www.webwereld.nl, but I could be wrong.


#7

For anyone who does not speak DUTCH a quick translation .

As a breach of the copyright of a work of character knowledge, science or art is not considered, (…) the verveelvoudiging, which limited remains to some copies and exclusively serves to own
exercise, study or use of the one which manufactures the verveelvoudiging or to
the verveelvoudigen exclusively for itself task gives.

See also the webpage www.iusmentis.com/copyright/Netherlands/thuiskopie/

The thuiskopie in the Dutch copyright under Article 16b author law
1912 one can make some copies of a work for own exercise, study or use. This is called thuiskopie. Such a copy cannot be made available to third parties. It has not been required that have bought you original yourself to be
allowed make thuiskopie of a work.See on the Internet as the Internet site or www.anti-piracy.Netherlands (the official site or brein).

I can make for someone else kopieÃ"n of cd’s, Mp3-bestanden or of other music and films?
No. Picture and sound can you exclusively for yourself ’ thuiskopiÃ"ren
'. According to the author law of 1912 can everyone, without preceding authorisation of the author for own exercise, study or itself a copy uses e.g… a cd or Mp3-muziekfile. There you pay also a small levy for when you buy blanco a drager. Several kopieÃ"n make, to lend, to let or sales has not been permitted without authorisation of the
claimants. This exception does not apply to computer software, among which also computer game. Those can therefore not at all gekopiÃ"erd become. "


#8

:bow: :bow:

Kewl , so i can actually download something i already own.
Nice to know.

Thanks for the time and effort !


#9

You are also allowed to download something you do not own as you are also allowed to copy a cd or dvd you do not own :stuck_out_tongue: :cool: :smiley: :wink: :iagree:


#10

Originally posted by Johnie
You are also allowed to download something you do not own as you are also allowed to copy a cd or dvd you do not own :stuck_out_tongue: :cool: :smiley: :wink: :iagree:

k so let me get this straight… you are saying that you are allowed to download anything as long as it is for personal use and u do not distribute/sell/share online …

and as for copying a cd/dvd you do not own … i would have to disagree on that since if you look on every single cd/dvd case it should say “All Rights Reserved. Any unauthorised duplication, selling, lending […bla bla…] strictly forbidden”


#11

You are entitled under the dutch copyright act to copy every music cd and movie dvd for personal use :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :cool:
An exception is computersoftware. :frowning:

The messages on the cds/dvd does not distracts from this and does not mean that the personal use exception is not valid anymore.


#12

At the end of the day think about how many millions of people use p2p networks to download illegal files, youve got more chance of being killed by a broken lawnmower than getting caught! theres more important things to worry about in this world than if billy gates and co or a few millionaires loose a few quid


#13

instead of messing about why dont they straight for the throat in declaring tcp/ip illegal then no files will be sharing.

:smiley:


#14

Then no more internet and networks.

:wink:


#15

Not really; There are plenty freeware and open source protocols.


#16

I see a lot of pron movies for download. Is it legal to download:

  1. Short (upto 5 mins) of clips from Hollywood movies
  2. Movies which I have no way of determining whether its legal or not.

Its pretty funny that you download a file called “Hot video.mpg” from P2P and it plays with a Copyright info :bigsmile:

Edit: Spelling


#17

Well…

  1. Depends which kind of 5 min clips you are talking about. You have every right to download a trailer of the movie, and sometimes the official sites post teasers etc that you can look at. But if someone cuts a movie into 60 clips of 5 minutes each and then shares them as part files, then you can easily get all of them and join the individual parts into the initial movie. That is just the same as getting the movie in one go, and as Mr. Belvedere explained in his post, it is the same as: “Case 2 : You are downloading 2700 RAR files , which after unpacking give you Disney’s Brother Bear in DVD format VOB files. Pete doesn’t has the right to share this content (no matter what he did with it) and you do not have the rights to obtain it this way.”

  2. “Movies which I have no way of determining whether its legal or not” … i think we already covered this, a movie is a movie and as long as you didnt make it, you do not have the right to post it for download. But then again, you have to take your chances if you want it. Again i find myself quoting Mr. Belvedere: “Safe ? Well what’s safe ? If the Feds want you , they would have you by now. The thing is , thanks to the lovely way the law is set up , the Justice departments doesn’t have the time , manpower nor money to charge small fry.”

So please read the previous posts before submitting new questions, as the answers are probably already there.


#18

Today i register for http://www.mp3advance.com//
becouse i search for free mp3,programs,video i etc.But then i see that they after register give on they registration person only one Safe-Share program who is free for download.I pay 23 $ for nothing it look like kazza,emule and other F u c k i n g programs who you need to wait for 1 month to download.To where is come this world Lie
How everybody see this Lie 1 BILION FILES-HAHAHAH from where from they Sait!!! NO FROM FUCKING KAZZAAA PROGRAMS WHO IS FREE not money nothing.
The next after that i see is that Fas,Safe,Private… HAHAHAHAH FROM WHERE MOTHER FUCKING PERSON.I WILL TELL YOU SOMETHING THIS FUCKING PROGRAM SAFE SHARE IS CONNECTED TO KAZZA SERVER EMULE AND ANOTHER FUCKING ADWARE,VIRUS SERVERS.IF IS POSSIBLE I WILL CANCEL AND I WILL WANT TO RETURN MY MONEY.

Not Just Music! Movies, Games
Software, Books, and much more.

Download over 1 Billion Files
with ease! Fast, Safe, Private…

Burn to as many FREE CDs
as you want! No Limits Ever!

AND DON’T NOBODY BELIVE ON THIS LIES.


#19

Probably you didnt understand my questions at all.

  1. If I download lets say a very famous scene from T3 which is 5 mins (which someone else has posted) then is it illegal?

  2. eg: If I download “movie.mpg” which is 10 megs, is it illegal? As it may be 10 megs from the latest release, but still I cant know till I have finished downloading it!


#20

This thread probably has more to do with copyright issues than with KaZaA… When it comes to P2P networks, it depends upon what you are sharing/downloading, not whether the network/software you are using is legal/illegal.

The real issue is one of copyright law and for the most part, many people do not understand it (I do, but mostly because I was involved in publishing for about a dozen years.

Basically, most “western” countries have similar laws, thus the dutch law cited earlier pertains to material that is gathered for an academic use (i.e., preparing new material for publication/education). In almost all cases, such material will be cited in a Bibliography of the end-result, which will also be copyrighted. In the United States, this is also known as “fair use” and is very limited in the amount of material that can be copied and used.

The basics: Copyright is created at the time of creation… that is, if I hand-write a manuscript of a story, that story carries a copyright as of the time that I hand-write it on paper. The same is true of using a computer and word-processing program. As I edit/change my original work, a new copyright is created with each change. When a publisher buys and publishes the work, it carries a new copyright on it because the work has been edited (changed) in some manner. That’s why most editors don’t pay any attention to a copyright notice added by an author (it shows paranoia, more than anything else). The only time it is necessary is in a collection, such as a collection of previously-published short stories.

Take a look at a CD of “greatest hits” the next time you are in a store… In many cases, you’ll find that each track carries its own copyright, dating back to the original recording.

Copyrights last a long time and apply whether there is a copyright notice or not. So, if something was produced commercially (and it doesn’t matter what it is, it probably was) and was not placed in the public domain, then it is likely copyrighted. This includes snippets, sound bites, scenes, photographs, clip art, and any of a dozen other creations. Very little of what you find on the interest is public domain, despite anyone’s feelings that the material is posted and therefore, it should be free… Copyright law simply does not work that way.

Who has what right to do what? A lot depends upon how you purchased the material. Generally speaking you do not have any right to copy anything, except under the “fair use” provisions of the law. You might as well visit a library if that is the case. Even if you purchase something, such as a commercial CD or DVD, you do not necessarily have a legal right to make a copy, even for backup purposes. This isn’t to say that you can’t do it, it largely depends upon the conditions of the sale…

Which brings us to licenses. Licenses are conditions of permission to do something. In the case of software, the license spells out the conditions under which you may use the software. You have not purchased the software, only the right to use it! You do not own that software. Ownership explicity implies that you can do whatever you want with the software. That is just not the case.

The same is true of any Intellectual Property or creative work of art. You may purchase a copy of such a work, but you do not own the work itself (unless you have purchased the original and the purchase agreement specifically transfers the ownership (copyright) to you. This is what the current squabble over UNIX is all about. The SCO Group claims they own UNIX… which is a long story in and of itself. Novell, the previous “owner” says “no, you don’t” and has a court case against The SCO Group to show that they did not expressly convey copyright to TSG. And, the way copyright law is written, it must be convey specifically in writing, not something conveyed through any general terms of a contract sale.

So, what this is all about is that very few people, except those who actually own the rights under contract or by virtue that they are the creating artist, have any legal right to provide, offer, or share any copyrighted work.

Sharing and copying of commercial and/or copyrighted works is illegal.