How does rebranding electronics work?

Sorry for this insanely daft question, but as we know certain cheap brands are sometimes good brands just rebadged under their own brand name. Brands like Alba, Matsui, Pro Line, etc.

Sometimes there might be an excess of microwaves for example where they might sell it onto other smaller companies like Pro Line (Comet’s own) where it’s difficult to sell these extras - Or simply they want to dilute stock.

They might get for example a Panasonic microwave and rebadge it under the Pro Line brand. Okay, so we know how this works, but I’m curious to know how Panasonic an make a small profit, because I can imagine savvy consumers, when they realise they can get the same “chassis” of microwave under Pro Line for half the price they will opt for that.

Although I’ve had pretty positive experiences on such cheap brands, I can’t understand why people would pay more than they need to. Only reason why I would buy a better brand is if these electronics are more prone to an premature death rate. (If it works well, don’t bother upgrading!)

Enlighten me, someone?

[QUOTE=Chad_Bronson;2585228]Sorry for this insanely daft question, but as we know certain cheap brands are sometimes good brands just rebadged under their own brand name. Brands like Alba, Matsui, Pro Line, etc. [/quote] I hardly think that is an insane question. I think its a perfectly sane and good question more people should ask themselves.

Sometimes there might be an excess of microwaves for example where they might sell it onto other smaller companies like Pro Line (Comet’s own) where it’s difficult to sell these extras - Or simply they want to dilute stock.
I agree

They might get for example a Panasonic microwave and rebadge it under the Pro Line brand. Okay, so we know how this works, but I’m curious to know how Panasonic can make a small profit, because I can imagine savvy consumers, when they realise they can get the same “chassis” of microwave under Pro Line for half the price they will opt for that.
Perhaps it’s a cost/benefit analysis. If the cost of storing a load of semi-old microwaves is getting expensive, perhaps it’s better to let the goods go for a lesse price, therefore earning at least some revenue.

Personally i think there’s a pretty huge margin on most electronic devices (no matter what stores tell you), so i doubt they are losing money. Most companies can afford bulk discounts easily.

Although I’ve had pretty positive experiences on such cheap brands, I can’t understand why people would pay more than they need to.
Trustworthiness, status and legacy. If Philips has never let you down and you love the Philips products, you bet you will pass that on to other people. If you are also proud of it “i got me a genuine Philips!” and a lot of people can relate to that, you have a fanbase.

If you love David Beckham, and David claims he only uses Philips products, you are more tempted to buy Philips, because David is your role model.

Only reason why I would buy a better brand is if these electronics are more prone to an premature death rate. (If it works well, don’t bother upgrading!) Enlighten me, someone?

In my humble life long experience i have found one thing that usually works a whole lot better: research.

If you want something, make a huge list of your wishes, marking those that are mandatory and those that are luxury. Then start to virtual shop everywhere on the planet. Read the reviews, read the specialists, examine the quality and research the trustworthiness if possible.

The best example i personally have is a 99 Euro Yamada DVD recorder.
This strange brand came available at a local shop for this (back then) very cheap price. So first thing i did was Google a lot, found out a lot and found out about its multitude of possibilities (FAT32 usb support, divx support, region free firmware avaiable, firewire connection, direct scart in, tv in, etc).

I have this recorder for over 4 years now and it has only failed about five times where the sofware was in a sort of lockup or loop. A quick power down and up solved that. It has never failed to read any kind of dvd or cd i used and it records perfectly.

Mr Belvadere, I think you have it hit on the head :slight_smile: Regarding Phillips, for the electronic consumer market certainly I would advise users to buy Phillips because I think they are an excellent brand with a built-up reputation of giving reliable products which are often cheaper than the competitors - eg Toshiba and LG, but now they are about on level with each other.

My experiences with Phillips are two DVD players, one from 2004 and another from 2009 that is my nannans (But she never used it so she gave it to my mum) and a Phillips television. Both of the players are fantastic, reads just about any DVD you throw at it, surprisingly stable, smooth playback, and it’s slick looks means they are still pretty stylish as well.

Certainly much better than a Toshiba DVD player we bought in 2003 - Which was stubborn, slow, and refused to playback awkward DVDs which were gobbled up by the Phillips, and gave up the ghost a few years later. (Laser was faulty) On that front, I highly recommend a Philips DVD player over a Toshiba - But Toshiba televisions have that edge over Phillips.

Not too keen on Toshiba VCR’s though for some reason… My dads model I think still has a tape jammed inside it, so I don’t advise. But Sony VCRs have always been very consistant and reliable. Matsui… Meh, they are okay I guess :slight_smile: Depends on experience really :slight_smile: (ELLO ELLO! TOSH GOTTA TOSHIBA!?)

I have a similar recorder from an unknown brand - A Visitron DVD Recorder WITH built in 160GB hard drive produced in 2008 (But bought as liquidated stock from eBay for £40 brand new and boxed with free delivery. Since it was brand new, I got meself a bargain! :bigsmile: This recorder is excellent, and whilst it is fundamentally flawed - (Slow booting times, and doesn’t quite record straight away so you may miss a few vital seconds of television, etc) but this is a problem affecting a lot of DVD recorders, particularly cheap ones.

I mainly use it as a VCR to DVD transfer, and the video quality as far as SP+ (2hr 30min SL recording time) [because it’s not worth losing more quality to squeeze onto one disc) has been excellent, even with LP cassettes. Recently, I found out an old WHSmith VHS tape footage of us my dad shot when we were about 3 in 1997 - shot on an old Video 8 camcorder so transferring to LP VHS the quality isn’t fantastic, but cued onto 3 DVDs all at HQ quality, the quality is is identical to the footage source. Since the footage was shot in mono, the sound on the DVD does sound a little weak… But I don’t think that can be helped.

It works, with all of the features you said above. The bottom line is for me, is if it works, why pay for a brand name? I have faith my bargain basement recorder will just keep going and going. Having said that I’ve had no problems with using a ASDA own Pacific DVD Player - Infact, they do tend to be rated pretty highly :slight_smile:

It just goes to show you one person has good service for a certain brand & another doesn’t.
I have a Phillips combo VCR/DVD player by the time it was lightly used for 6 months the VCR wouldn’t FF/RW except in Play mode. The DVD drive developed a hum. It can be hidden if the volume is medium or more but not for low volume . btw I’m still using it as a bedroom player but I would have to be persuaded to buy another Phillips product.

I do think rebadged products can be exact duplicates of the name brand . In theory a good thing. On the other hand they can be manufactured with the specs of the rebrander using just some of the parts of the name brand .

@Cholla, most of the time, el-cheapo brands are built by bargain basement parts in some Far East manufacturer - Sold for pennies because they were made for pennies. Whilst you can get lucky with a bargain basement brand like Pro Line and Pacific (Both of which have been pretty decent to me) which apparently rebadge from decent manufacturers… There is nothing to suggest they won’t move to a different OEM Manufactuer…

Both Funai VCRs have been an ultimate avoid for me :doh:

As far as profitability goes it’s all down to the economies of scale.

Factories are costly to run and are better kept running at full capacity so they fill up any slack by producing rebranded versions for other companies.

It’s cheaper to make a smaller profit on rebranded goods than have the production line running at less than economic capacity.

[B]Wombler[/B]

[QUOTE=Wombler;2585405]As far as profitability goes it’s all down to the economies of scale.

Factories are costly to run and are better kept running at full capacity so they fill up any slack by producing rebranded versions for other companies.

It’s cheaper to make a smaller profit on rebranded goods than have the production line running at less than economic capacity.

[B]Wombler[/B][/QUOTE]

I don’t understand what you just put - Are you implying it’s cheaper to keep filling orders with “offcuts” from brands than it is to either produce themselves or even not get as much, so they can at least churn a profit?

…Would it be undercutting them if Phillips et al did this themselves with bin components, let alone tarring their reputation? :wink:

[QUOTE=Chad_Bronson;2585406]Are you implying it’s cheaper to keep filling orders with “offcuts” from brands than it is to either produce themselves or even not get as much, so they can at least churn a profit?[/quote] It is cheaper to have a factory running 24/7 than stop producing. There are so much processes and people involved that it can actually be beneficial to keep producing as much goods as possible.

…Would it be undercutting them if Phillips et al did this themselves with bin components, let alone tarring their reputation? :wink:
No, because these products will not be sold under the Philips brand. Perhaps Magnavox. :slight_smile:

Mind you that there are not a lot of different mass producing factories in the world.

[QUOTE=Chad_Bronson;2585406]I don’t understand what you just put - Are you implying it’s cheaper to keep filling orders with “offcuts” from brands than it is to either produce themselves or even not get as much, so they can at least churn a profit?

…Would it be undercutting them if Phillips et al did this themselves with bin components, let alone tarring their reputation? ;)[/QUOTE]

No, I mean they produce differently branded products for other client companies in the same factory.

Factories have to run at full capacity to cover staffing, heating, lighting and other costs so rather than producing half as many TVs, for example, than they’re capable of it’s better to sign up a contract with another company to produce that company’s own brand products for them during slack periods.

For example I bought a Proline fridge freezer years ago which is Comet’s own brand. The door was damaged in transit and when the engineer came out to replace it, he was able to tell me that all the components were Zanussi parts inside a Proline branded cabinet.

Also economies of scale mean that a TV manfacturer might for example get a better deal on components if they buy say twice as many of certain parts than they need themselves. So by using the excess parts to fulfil orders for rebranded versions they’re also increasing the profit margin on their own branded products.

[B]Wombler[/B]

[QUOTE=Mr. Belvedere;2585443] No, because these products will not be sold under the Philips brand. Perhaps Magnavox. :slight_smile:
[/QUOTE]

And the big name brand will still sell well simply because the name is widely known and the perception of quality is higher regardless of whether or not that is in fact the case. :iagree:

[B]Wombler[/B]

[QUOTE=Wombler;2585447]And the big name brand will still sell well simply because the name is widely known and the perception of quality is higher regardless of whether or not that is in fact the case. :iagree:[/QUOTE]

The big huge problem with this is when massively used cheap-ass components tend to get faulty. Usually the design solves the bad quality component problems. This is of course completely illogical, why not use better quality components? But if you are producing HUGE quantities of a product, it starts to make sense, since every $0,00001 saved, means saving millions of dollars in the long run.

Sometimes it goes horribly wrong. And the sad part is most companies get away with it because of the “warranty”.

A couple of examples:

A few years back every computer manufacturer used inferiour quality capacitors in their products. These capacitors were ultra-cheap and therefore massively ordered and produced. Problem was that they were getting faulty in about three years. Dell, IBM, HP, amongst other computer manufacturers. were forced to replace a lot of computers. Most consumers couldn’t do anything about it, because their systems were out of warranty. But company servers with a lengthy contract were another story. Dell tried to keep it quiet by silently giving away new servers and better models to big companies, but there were suddenly a lot of Optiplexes failing and people started complaining a lot.

The Microsoft Xbox 360 (first edition) has a major design flaw regarding the cooling system. This is because they first designed the motherboard with its cooling and later on the housing. The dvd player did not fit correctly so they decided to redesign the cooling system. This led to the very famous red ring of death. Microsoft extended the warranty (costed them 1 billion dollars!) to “fix” the problem, which meant you got another, but same design xbox. Because they used a cheap-ass cooling system, they lost a billion dollars. No matter, because Microsft still made profit after that.
The top of the arrogance is that Microsoft now even advertises that the new Xbox 360 S has a better cooling system!!

Most CRT televisions use inferior diodes for upscaling the required voltage for the crt tube. The big rumour is that this is a design flaw on purpose. If you use a $2 diode your television would probable NEVER break down. Instead they used a $0.50 diode, so that your television will break down in about 5 years time, forcing you to buy a new one.

I have personally experienced this with 3 different CRT televisions. When we upgraded some components with better quality components, they never failed again.

The iPhone (model 3 i think?) has a serious design flaw where you, as a consumer, are able to short circuit the antenna ring around the housing by pressing your fingers around the phone. This results in a enormous signal loss. And what did Steve Jobs say to unsatisfied consumers?? “You are holding it wrong!” WTF!?!?!?! What was offered solution? A case around it!! WTF!?!?!

Research a lot before you purchase consumer electronics. It can save you a ton of annoyances.

@Wombler,

Oh, now I see what you mean :iagree: In which, if you gotcha self a Zanussi fridge, seems you just bagged yourself a bargain! :bigsmile: I do love this idea of getting store brands only to find they are actually pretty decent brands just repackaged - But oftenly they are now not much cheaper than proper brands, and since store brands are a big of a mixed bag when it comes to it, it can be a bit of a false economy.

Having said that, all the el-cheapo brands I’ve had from VCRs to televisions, DVD players, I can’t think of any brand I would want to avoid like the plague… Only I know Toshiba to steer away from with DV

D players from my experience of my 2003 player. Although having said that, it was a pretty early player but still there should be no reason why it would just give up - Not least because my 2004 Phillips is still going.

Having said that, maddeningly I can’t disagree with you about crappy parts in computers - I had an eMachines 420 computer, which blew up in 2009 because of the sh1tty PSU that they installed, obviously just to save a few pennies. Search up “eMachines 420 PSU problem” and you can see that the internet is rife with this problem - So it wasn’t a case of they got installing a duff part - They knew this and wanted to save a few pennies.

To think, if I installed a new PSU weeks prior, the computer would still be working to this day :rollseyes: I have a Toshiba television which I feel is on the way out, so I’ll have a look into it, see if it does go, I can fix it :slight_smile:

Cheers!

Mr. Belvedere, can I ask how can you repair a CRT television? I thought the tubes inside were soldered shut :confused:

[QUOTE=Chad_Bronson;2585456]Mr. Belvedere, can I ask how can you repair a CRT television? I thought the tubes inside were soldered shut :confused:[/QUOTE]Not the tube, but the electronics around it.

[QUOTE=Mr. Belvedere;2585451]
A few years back [B]every[/B] computer manufacturer used inferiour quality capacitors in their products. These capacitors were ultra-cheap and therefore massively ordered and produced. Problem was that they were getting faulty in about three years.
[/QUOTE]

I have an older IBM computer (no longer my main one). It had 3 of the bad capacitors . All the same one from the same manufacturer the rest have never had the problem the bad ones did. Fortunately for me I started having a minor booting problem & some internet searching led me to the problem & the fix. The capacitors were only swelled & had not started leaking. I had to order them as I could not find them locally . The capacitors were 75 cents each but cost about 6 US dollars shipping. Since my computer was out of warranty I removed the motherboard removed the old capacitors & soldered in the new ones. This computer is still working fine as a second computer. It was made in 1999 .

[QUOTE=Mr. Belvedere;2585451]
Most CRT televisions use [B]inferior diodes[/B] for upscaling the required voltage for the crt tube. The big rumour is that this is [B]a design flaw on purpose[/B]. If you use a $2 diode your television would probable [B]NEVER[/B] break down. Instead they used a $0.50 diode, so that your television will break down in about 5 years time, forcing you to buy a new one.

I have personally experienced this with 3 different CRT televisions.
[/QUOTE]
I’ve had CRT televisions go bad . I suspect that was the problem with an Emerson I had.
I’ve also have old CRT’s that never had a problem. I recently got a wide screen for my main TV so I did the rotation . The old main TV a Panasonic CRT went to my bedroom It is a 2001 & still working fine . I did one repair to it . It had some bad soldering in the volume switch area . My old bedroom RCA CRT TV went to the computer room it is a 1998 a works OK but has a volume problem . It occasionally goes up high by itself for a minute or so & can’t be turned down. The RCA CRT it replaced was small & very old it had a dial tuner , no RCA or coax inputs. I had to use a balum to connect the tuner converter box to it . I would have to get it out of where I have it stored to make sure but I think it is a 1978. So some CRT must not have had this problem.

You guys must have had some really bad computers then, all the computers I’ve had from a custom Pentium MMX built in 1997 to a Packard Bell iMedia 1305 (2005) I’ve never experienced such a problem :eek: Ditto with TVs, I’ve had a lot of CRT televisions and not one of them has gone bad - Ranging from the excellent Toshiba to an okay Chinese branded combi… Forgive me for not remembering the brand, however :doh: in 2006.

Infact, I have yet to actually see physically a CRT go bad - The most problems I’ve ever had is where the resolution would play up or the screen would distort from the speaker magnets… Simple demagnatise feature built into them monitors would correct them though :slight_smile:

CRTs are pretty much non-existent here now and have been for a long time.

Even the dirt cheap supermarket TVs are LCDs.

[B]Wombler[/B]

I agree you would have to look around to find a new CRT if you even could.
Most of my CRT’s have done well as I posted above . As the age out & do stop working I will replace them with wide flat screen unless something I like better comes along. Right now I only have one wide flat screen (excluding the computer monitor) . I have 4 working CRT’s still in use at home. Only one of those has any problems.
I have had some that did but I’ve been around a lot longer than Chad_Bronson .
My parents didn’t even buy a TV till I was 6 years old. It was black & white & I pretty sure there were no color TV’s available for purchase. I’ve watched a good amount on various vacuum tube B&W TV’s . My first TV when I moved out of my parents house was a used tube type color set . It was so old it had an almost round CRT but worked well .
For computers Chad_Bronson you’ve had good luck. The IBM that I replaced the capacitors in was obviously a name brand . It’s not so much they used cheap capacitors but some made with a new chemical compound . This broke down over time & caused the problem. Search the internet about this . Many computers had this problem. It was a case of the new tech not working.