How do you create an Audio CD-r that won’t play in a PC or Mac but will play on most standard Cd players?

Hi All – I’m new to this forum but have been reviewing all of the very useful threads already posted related to this subject, so thank you for you help so far. I’ve started this new thread in a hope we can solve this problem I’ve been battling with for the last few months!

I’m trying to make an Audio CD-r that won’t play in a PC or Mac but will play on most standard Cd players. I’ve seen a lot of information on the web about how to try to copy them but not how to make one except the in theory about how to copy them!

I know I should be trying to corrupt the lead out TOC on the CD-r as this is the part read by computers as default (burst mode), start area on CD-r is read by standard CD player reading on the P channel of the PQ info – thus, plays in a standard CD player and not on a computer or other intelligent drives (In car players / mp3-CD players etc.)

Obviously I know it can be read by some drive with the right software but I want to make these book violation formatted CD-r’s as promo to send out CDDA audio for press review before the release date of an album. This will hopefully stop most of the unscrupulous reviewers putting our music straight on i-tunes and then the internet before it’s meant to be there!

As I understand it - I create ‘session 1’ audio CDDA and leave this session open. Then make a blue book / CD-e (CD extra) by burning the second session with nominal Data but corrupt this TOC as to hide the CD audio tracks session in the finalisation / closed TOC. The original P channel info is still there at the start of the CD for standard CD players hence it will work as I require.

I’ve also read this can be also be done by closing session 2 (standard CD-extra) and creating a third session TOC which is incomplete / corrupt – again this confuses most computer drives but plays on a standard CD player as the P channel info is intact.

All the standard burning of differing book formats / multi sessions etc I can do but I can’t work out how to corrupt a TOC?

Anyone had any success or has further insight into this problem?

Gear listed below for reference:

Plexdor – Premium 2 CD burner
Plexdor – PX810 CD/DVD burner
Mac Pro Quad Running XP32
Software:
PC side - Samplitude10,Wavelab5,Plextools3.2,Nero7,UltraISO,Exact audio copy

Hi and Welcome![QUOTE=The Wrong Trousers;2266531]
I’m trying to make an Audio CD-r that won’t play in a PC or Mac but will play on most standard Cd players. [/QUOTE]even Sony, BMG, Universal and all the other big record companies failed. And they had a million-dollar budget for that.

My suggestion: Add a watermark (individually for each recipient) to your audio material. Tell the recipients, that the music is individualized.

Michael

Thanks for the reply - I know all these systems failed in the ‘commercial’ market place for consumers because of obvious reasons - you can’t use them on differing systems - customer gets annoyed, and as the’re not strict Red book and weren’t clearly labeled as such even leading to one case in the US where a woman sued the manufacture and won. If I was BMG, I’d drop the system too! But that doesn’t mean it didn’t work – it did, it was just not fit for it’s purpose.

The protection system works – I have CD’s that work this way – I have CD-r’s that work this way – these are also promos of pre-release albums from current record companies. These are labeled correctly to inform the user it will not work as a standard CD etc – restrictive for the purpose of pre release copy protection and hence fit for this purpose. This is exactly what I want!

Watermarking is great, check out (http://www.activatedcontent.com/watermarking_our.asp) – it also works, but it’s very expensive – about 9000euro for the setup to make multiple promo Cd-rs and 1euro per license. This is well out of our league hence why I’m trying to create the CD-r as I know can be done, just not how! :slight_smile:

Any further thoughts would be appreciated.

The protections on audio CDs do fail on some drives - you need the right drive. As for illegal TOCs that is to do with software also.

Hi - Thanks for the reply.

‘The protections on audio CDs do fail on some drives’ - do you mean in terms of burning or playback? If the latter, it does not matter if it doesn’t work on all drives as explained earlier - It just needs to be fit for it purpose – won’t play on most computers but will play on most (but not all) standard CD audio players.

You stated ‘As for illegal TOCs that is to do with software also.’ - I agree, do you know of any program that does this? i.e. enables you to make an illegal TOC hiding the original audio session?

Clarification would be appreciated :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=The Wrong Trousers;2266567]‘The protections on audio CDs do fail on some drives’ - do you mean in terms of burning or playback?[/QUOTE]Yup meant playback. Ah I see, I agree, you’re right about general purpose.

[QUOTE=The Wrong Trousers;2266567]
You stated ‘As for illegal TOCs that is to do with software also.’ - I agree, do you know of any program that does this? i.e. enables you to make an illegal TOC hiding the original audio session?

Clarification would be appreciated :)[/QUOTE]Hmm, I don’t know any software that does this intentionally, but a hack and slash method is to modify a CloneCD .ccd file to do just that. Only problem is that CloneCD use image files, and it’s a bit difficult to work with because you would want to take .wav files and build from that I guess.

Thanks - that’s very helpful. I’ve looked at editing an image file already and as you say the problem being this seems to only work for data. But I did have some success burning a CDDA session and leaving it open - burning a data session, again leaving this open. Coping the whole CD to an image file and then trying to edit the image file.I’ve tried ‘ultraISO’ but when I try to re-burn the image it say the image is corrupted - which it is,
got stumped from here.

What software do you use in your ‘hack and slash method’ and how do you modify the TOC only?

Any help would be very appreciated :slight_smile:

[B]No way.[/B]

This can never work.

[QUOTE=chef;2266751][B]No way.[/B]

This can never work.[/QUOTE]

I case you didn’t read the previous thread - it can be done - it has been done - I have cd-r disks that work in this way.

i.e. It does work - does anyone have any ideas of how to achieve it?

[QUOTE=The Wrong Trousers;2266531]…I’m trying to make an Audio CD-r that won’t play in a PC or Mac but will play on most standard Cd players. I’ve seen a lot of information on the web about how to try to copy them …[/QUOTE]

For those of you who are interested - I have discovered this method to stop Win media player and iTunes on Windows XP/Vista from seeing an audio CD and still allowing it to play on standard CD players…

First track index manipulation - My investigations so far have revealed on Win XP if you push the first track index past 1 (start CD numbering from 2), i-tune’s doesn’t see the CD, Win Media Player only see the CD tracks from 2 onwards but lists them from 1. If you push this first index past the end of the numbered last track index Win Media player doesn’t see the CD i.e. 7 tk CD - set first track index to be 8. You can still read the CD if you use an advanced reader such as plextools / samplitude / wavelab etc but this limited protection against a straight rip from generic players on windows is excellent. The CD plays on most standard players and the CD tracks are number as burnt i.e. if first track is 8 it will display that way.

The problem with this method is when you put the CD into a Mac, it sees all the tracks as numbered and will load direct to i-tunes etc. I’ve only made some basic investigations into this method. Does anyone fiound a way to hide the tracks on Mac OS? or do you have any other pointers / comments?

i will help u, but tell me that what u r going to do with this trick? what’s ur intention?

hello The Wrong Trousers

ther’s book you might find interesting:
CD Cracking Uncovered: Protection Against Unsanctioned CD Copying
by Kris Kaspersky

it goes from very fundaments of optical media to actual protection schemes
and among other things ther’s also chapter addressing this topic:
Chapter 7: Protection Mechanisms for Preventing Playback in PC CD-ROM

[QUOTE=hellohi;2271721]i will help u, but tell me that what u r going to do with this trick? what’s ur intention?[/QUOTE]

If you look though the original thread the point of doing this is to make it difficult for the non technical in the world - i.e. in this scenario ‘the pre release album reviewers’ to copy promo CD before release. Yes it can be copied as analogue audio / with the right software and drive but the point is to dissuade ‘people’ (i.e. the reviewers) from coping it straight to i-tunes and sending it their mates etc etc. Meaning our album is less likely to be copied to the internet before the real release date.

The idea is not to stop end user ‘consumers’ from listening to music – it’s to make sure that music is distributed through the correct channels at the correct time. This means in the end the artist - ‘the people that write the music’ end up getting the royalties they deserve and can continue to make more music which they will not be able to do if it’s been distributed around the world on ‘bit torrent’ before anyone can buy it!!

This protection system works – I have promo CD-r’s from large record companies that work this way. These are labeled correctly to inform the user it will not work as a standard redbook audio CD etc – restrictive for the purpose of pre release copy protection and hence fit for this purpose. This is exactly what I want!

If you could help any further with that it would be apprectiated.

[QUOTE=themabus;2272143]hello The Wrong Trousers

ther’s book you might find interesting:
CD Cracking Uncovered: Protection Against Unsanctioned CD Copying
by Kris Kaspersky

it goes from very fundaments of optical media to actual protection schemes
and among other things ther’s also chapter addressing this topic:
Chapter 7: Protection Mechanisms for Preventing Playback in PC CD-ROM[/QUOTE]

That’s really useful info - I’ll order a copy and post up an relevant details to this thread. Thanks :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=The Wrong Trousers;2266567]
You stated ‘As for illegal TOCs that is to do with software also.’ - I agree, do you know of any program that does this? i.e. enables you to make an illegal TOC hiding the original audio session?

Clarification would be appreciated :)[/QUOTE]

Yes, CloneCD will help you on this. Ur all the time thinking about creating an invalid second sessions so the “inteligent” drives will try to read all of the data, as audio players ignore the second session so they are not bothered about whats after the first one. You could try a different trick. As far as I remember the protection was called CDS100 (Cactus Data Shield) and it relied on changing the type only in toc) from Audio to Data. As like you know audio doesn;t have error correction or detection code in the first 2352 bytes (I could b wrong - done it a loooooooooooong time ago) and there is a CIRC algo somewhere (don’t remember from the top of my head). And data tracks most of the time Mode1 (header + 2048 bytes of user data + error correction & detection code) will perform error detection and correction. As the EDC && ECC is computer based on the user data , when the drive will see that he has totally corrupted data tracks he will start and try to correct them what will fall into a continous spin around… It worked for me a long time ago. OK, you will find some drives (few) out there that after 5-10 minuts of spinning around will show you in the end the toc of the disc. And in cloneCD I think you need to change the data type for all of the tracks except the first one (have a go as I really done it a loooooooong time ago). I think 0x04 is data and 0x00 is audio :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

Hope this helps a bit… I will try to get my old CDs with backups of things I’ve done in the past and have a look there to refresh my memory :slight_smile:

–regards

[QUOTE=MateuszMiX;2273992]Yes, CloneCD will help you on this. Ur all the time thinking about creating an invalid second sessions so the “inteligent” drives will try to read all of the data, as audio players ignore the second session so they are not bothered about whats after the first one. You could try a different trick. As far as I remember the protection was called CDS100 (Cactus Data Shield) and it relied on changing the type only in toc) from Audio to Data. As like you know audio doesn;t have error correction or detection code in the first 2352 bytes (I could b wrong - done it a loooooooooooong time ago) and there is a CIRC algo somewhere (don’t remember from the top of my head). And data tracks most of the time Mode1 (header + 2048 bytes of user data + error correction & detection code) will perform error detection and correction. As the EDC && ECC is computer based on the user data , when the drive will see that he has totally corrupted data tracks he will start and try to correct them what will fall into a continous spin around… It worked for me a long time ago. OK, you will find some drives (few) out there that after 5-10 minuts of spinning around will show you in the end the toc of the disc. And in cloneCD I think you need to change the data type for all of the tracks except the first one (have a go as I really done it a loooooooong time ago). I think 0x04 is data and 0x00 is audio :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

Hope this helps a bit… I will try to get my old CDs with backups of things I’ve done in the past and have a look there to refresh my memory :slight_smile:

–regards[/QUOTE]

Thanks for this - I’ll try it out in the week and get back to you with the results :smiley: