At least you had the sense to realise that Alan. Many don’t appear to.
People who are in a high risk category should absolutely do what they feel is necessary to ensure their health. Others who are in extremely low risk categories have different parameters to weigh when making a decision. The choice to not get injected with a COVID19 vaccine does not mean that person has no sense (please let me know if I misunderstood your comment). There are very valid reasons to not take one of them for those in very low risk categories. One major reason is VAERS (Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System) has listed more deaths related to the COVID19 vaccines than all other vaccines combined over the past 15.5 years. There are tangible, real risks associated with taking these vaccines, or any vaccine for that matter. To many it does make sense to consider these risks when deciding their medical choices.
Comparisons with other vaccines for different treatments aren’t directly relevant. It’s the odds of severe repercussions of the disease weighed against the odds of side-effects of the vaccine that are the important figures. By way of explanation, there is a great many treatments which are harmful to your body, but are nonetheless warranted depending on this relative risk. Radiation therapy for example is extremely harmful but is commonly used for treating cancer despite severe negative side-effects.
Bear in mind also that any statistics gathered up until now, relating to that relative risk, are outdated due to the appearance of the recent variants and in particular the Delta variant that emerged in India which is vastly more transmissible and affects younger people more severely. Long term, it’s also important to remember that COVID-19 is a moving target which constantly mutates. If infections continue then it’s only a matter of time before that constant breeding ground produces further variants that will severely affect those that are currently considered low risk, as unfortunately natural selection and genetic adaptation are continuous and inevitable processes. Each infection is pretty much a gamble as to whether a new and more aggressive variant will be created. The Delta variant is a significant step in that direction and is therefore a worrying development. It won’t be the last either unless the world can collectively get COVID-19 under control.
In the UK the Delta variant is currently spreading rapidly amongst those that haven’t been vaccinated, and it’s aggressive enough to have also infected a few who have only received the first dose of their vaccine. I appreciate not every country in the world has experienced this yet (we’re earlier on the curve compared to some) but COVID-19 respects no boundaries and it’s clear that this is what will happen in other countries if action isn’t taken now to prevent it.
I know hindsight is a wonderful thing, but looking back I think all countries should have locked down much more quickly and more severely in the way the Australia and New Zealand did, as they’ve almost entirely eradicated it. Unfortunately world leaders dragged their heels and now we’re left with the infinitely more difficult job of sorting out the ever changing consequences.
I’ve no doubt we’ll get there eventually but I hope it’s as soon as possible and without anymore hard learnt lessons.
First, I need to state that my concern is overwhelmingly with what is going on in the USA. I don’t closely track what is occurring in the UK, India etc. as it would take up too much of my time. The VAERS data is for the USA only and it was specifically developed by the CDC to track the negative impacts of vaccines. As I stated before, when the SARS vaccine was associated with 56 deaths after 45 million doses were administered, this vaccine was pulled from use. Here in the USA VAERS serves an important purpose in keeping the population and medical community informed in real time as to the effect of any vaccines that are being administered to the public. Below is a graph showing the data I referenced. The issue for many in the USA is what the long term effects will be of a vaccine that has already caused so many deaths.
A lot of data in my country is being revised now that more scrutiny of it is possible. This is showing the mistakes that were made like sending known COVID19 infected people to nursing homes against CDC recommendations that added tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths to the totals. There have also been many deaths that were blamed on COVID19 where it wasn’t the cause. As this information comes out it is not instilling much confidence in how our government has handled this crisis. IMO, people in the USA have good reasons to be skeptical and cautious regarding their medical treatment relating to this virus.
As for the lock downs, we have a fair amount of data in the USA regarding this. Our system allows individual states to determine how they handle situations like this within their borders. It is clear now that states who have/had the strictest lock down measures experienced the highest number of deaths. Also, many predicted that states that removed the lockdown restrictions early would have death total and infection rate spikes. This never occurred. I do think countries like New Zealand and Australia have a unique geographical advantage regarding infectious diseases. They are very isolated and can prevent travel much easier than other countries with long borders with numerous countries in high population density areas. To use them as an example of how things should be done is probably not viable to most other parts of the world.
Yes but comparative death rates for unrelated vaccines don’t affect the relative risk of dying from COVID-19 for those that choose to remain unvaccinated, so I still don’t understand the relevance of that. The risk of dying from COVID-19 is dramatically higher than that of dying from the vaccine, so most people weigh up the odds on that basis, which makes sense to me.
What happens in other countries is an early indicator of what will happen in the USA and I can never understand why people choose to ignore this but ultimately that’s their prerogative. In any case the Delta variant has been in the USA since early March and is already a concern for Federal Health officials.
You’re correct in saying that most viruses mutations are less lethal variants but it’s the scale of COVID-19 that’s the problem. The vast majority of COVID-19 mutations are indeed less viable but it’s the sheer number of these mutations that alters the playing field. Every individual infection has the potential for the virus to “strike it lucky” and become more aggressive. The difference here is that there are millions and millions of these infections and it’s not easily contained. It only takes one of these millions of infections to randomly create a new more dangerous variant and things could get very much worse, so if we don’t tackle it properly the odds are very much stacked against us.
As long as infections continue there’s a ticking timebomb and the USA is actually at greater risk of this because it has a huge population on a single land mass. This isn’t a hypothetical risk either. It’s something that will happen. There are already 20 known sub-variants of the Brazilian Variant for example so it’s something that the scientists are seeing regularly and constantly monitoring.
The CDC is monitoring variants of concern (VOCs) as they emerge in the USA and they list and map the most significant ones here, where they’re identified by their scientific reference numbers (the Delta variant is B.1.617.2). CDC COVID Data Tracker
There are 17 of the most prevalent variants individually listed and more than 200 variants included in the “Other” category which they don’t appear to have listed individual details of.
The States that implemented lockdowns were the ones with the biggest problems so it stands to reason that they have the highest number of deaths. That’s just cause and effect.
Personally speaking I’d be concerned about individual States all doing their own thing. COVID-19 respects no boundaries, and all it takes is for one State to get it wrong and new variants will spread before they can lock things down. One weak link destroys the integrity of the chain.
Whether it’s natural or not doesn’t affect the viability of the virus. Smallpox was natural and is estimated to have killed up to 300 million people in the first half of the 20th Century alone. It had existed since at least the time of the Egyptian pharaohs, around 3000 years ago, and was only eventually eradicated through a global vaccination programme. Smallpox - Wikipedia
The people that do get the Covid virus usually have some lasting lung damage & heart damage. Even if a mild case this may affect their lives as they age, So that is something to consider as a reason to get vaccinated.
I do agree that the 5000 deaths are something to consider.
Mighty important to the families of those that die from the vaccine.
I’m 68 so I decided to get vaccinated as soon as it was available.
I did miss the first day but got my first shot December 31,2020.
Also consider you may have already had the Covid & could have been asymptomatic. That means you may have infected others & not even known.
Also I want to comment on this:
The term rDNA recombinant deoxyribonucleic acid is being used.
My understanding is rDNA was used in the development phase of Pfizer & Moderna. There is no rDNA in the vaccine being given.
rDNA penetrates the cell nucleus & remains maybe even permanently.
What is in the vaccine is messenger ribonucleic acid (mRNA) .
mRNA doesn’t enter the cell nucleus & is gone as soon as the body begins to create the protein that causes the body to create antibodies. In this case to the Covid-19 virus.
What I was able to find is there are NO rDNA vaccines approved for use on humans.
There are rDNA vaccines approved for animals.
That’s also a very important point. It’s the chances of severe repercussions (including death) that have to be considered.
For the people that do have concerns about getting vaccinated, all they need to know is are they more likely to suffer severe consequences if they take the vaccine, or if they don’t?
The medical and scientific research weighs very heavily towards getting vaccinated.
Some posts have been edited, and others deleted.
Let’s not go around in circles regarding the safety of the vaccines.
You are either for them or against them. Let’s just leave it at that unless there is something different to add.
I’m re-opening the thread, but be aware of the following.
Posts about conspiracy theories, or accusations about government coverups, will not be allowed, and will be deleted without warning or explanation.
Interestingly, in Australia the authorities which previously had required anyone over 50 who wanted to be vaccinated to get AstraZeneca now have altered the recommendation so that AstraZeneca now only recommended for over 60s with Pfizer recommended for everyone else.
Anyway, I had my first shot and not due for my second until early August since I had AstraZeneca.
Nice to see you around here.
Australia are being very cautious about the AstraZeneca vaccine. No harm in that.
Just for your info, and perhaps Australia will follow. The UK have cut the space between the first and second dose of the AstraZeneca vaccine from 12 weeks to 8 weeks. Perhaps to give better protection from the Delta variant of the virus.
W.H.O. has given names to the main variants of concern. Hopefully all countries will use this naming scheme to minimise confusion.
Let me make it clear to you.
This isn’t your house. It is our house. The staff here decide, and it doesn’t matter how many articles you link to claiming credibility.
COT’s short video wasn’t balanced IMO. A balanced article would have also contained data on other dates to compare. Not just a single date.
So while the figures are more than likely correct for that date. It appears to be pushing an agenda.
Pushing an agenda is against the normal forum rules.
UTR. It doesn’t matter how you butter it up. It’s not fact, and no government anywhere on the planet has made any formal accusations that I’m aware of.
Therefore it is only a theory.
This is a technology forum. We allowed this thread because some members here are absolutely terrified of this virus. And we thought it would be a good thread for information on the current trends this virus is taking around the world. It doesn’t matter to us at this stage how the virus got here. The fact is its here.
I’m sure you can find other forums around the Internet to push your theories or agendas. It’s just not going to be this one.
If you don’t like how the staff are policing this thread. Then stay out of the thread.
I’m not going to close the thread. I expect you to either respect our ruling or find somewhere else.
At some point the staff will lose patience if you continue to push your argument, and take action to prevent you from doing so, As, we will not allow a couple of people to spoil it for everyone else.
That is not a threat. It’s a promise.
Both of you are valued members on this forum when you post on technical issues.
Please don’t spoil it.
[Several posts deleted.]
Getting there with him but it is a struggle with the younger people.
I kinda see where he is coming as everything to do with UK gov covid so far has been one big lie with more coming out daily.
The only excellent thing from both here in Scotland and UK is the roll out
Vaccine is best option for now but he thinks it is not as effective as they say hence why talk of boosters etc
He always comes out with you can still get it and pass it on after vaccine so why bother
When i tell him its less severe though if you get it he says he will have it less severe anyway as he has already had covid.
Anyone know percentage less severe with vaccine v less severe with already having covid.
P.s this is my other son my first got second dose of astra zen but thread was closed when went to reply and forgot
That’s a hypothetical thing at the moment, but scientists have been warning that boosters may potentially be required if new variants emerge that don’t respond well enough to the existing vaccines.
This isn’t a scenario that currently exists, as the current vaccines are extremely effective, but it’s something they need to prepare for in case it does actually happen, so that’s really what all the discussions have been about.
BTW that’s good to hear that your son is sorted. I had my second dose of the Pfizer vaccine a week ago.
Only one son sorted the other is still not interested
Same with the restrictions everyone here just seems to ignore them now except businesses and shops etc which have to stick to it.
So that is me and wife and oldest son all had vaccine with my middle son still not but now there is word of vaccine passports to go to the likes of Ibiza etc he is thinking at least.
Also have a 16 year old but he is keen to take it but not his turn yet.
If you still have the blue letter you received from the NHS with your vaccination appointment. On the back of the letter is your unique vaccine ID number.
You can either log in if you already created an online account, or create a new one.
Goto the following website and complete the guide half way down the page. At some point you’ll be asked to login.
Once completing the guide you should get an option to ‘rearrange your appointment’. click on the link and it will show you your vaccination status by clicking on the ‘vaccination status tab’.
Clicking on that link will bring up a page that allows you to ‘order a paper copy’ of your vaccination status. This is your vaccine passport.
Yes. I have noticed that as well. I guess everyone is sick and tired of these restrictions.
Catching Covid more than once is very rare, so very little data available.
There is an interesting article on how the bodies immune system works. Perhaps worth a read. Keep in mind the article is 6 months old.
Lastly. The UK government reports that you are 75% less likely to need hospital treatment for Covid if you have at least one dose of the available vaccines.
You will have to use your own judgment as to the accuracy of the claim.