HD DVD currently well ahead of Blu-ray in Europe



I just posted the article HD DVD currently well ahead of Blu-ray in Europe.

A fairly clear sign that the PS3 helped put Blu-ray in the lead becomes quite clear after this DigiTimes report about HD DVD vs. Blu-ray in Europe. At present, Toshiba’s HD DVD player…

Read the full article here:  [http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/13077-HD-DVD-currently-well-ahead-of-Blu-ray-in-Europe.html](http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/13077-HD-DVD-currently-well-ahead-of-Blu-ray-in-Europe.html)

Feel free to add your comments below. 

Please note that the reactions from the complete site will be synched below.


Go HD DVD, it’s your birthday… :slight_smile:


Betamax & VHS…deja vu allover again. :X


If history repeats itself, HD-DVD will lose as everything I hear indicates that HD-DVD has been providing superior quality.


HD-DVD only provides superior quality because Universal’s transfers are much superior to those of Fox on BluRay. Sony’s own, Disney’s, and Lionsgate’s transfers have all been on par with Universal’s for quite some time, and Warner and Paramount produce similar transfers/encodes on both formats. So the quality difference is more because Fox product video quality just sucks, then anything else. As for HD DVD winning in Europe, I guess it’s important to gloat about this now, since it’s the last month HD DVD will be able to :B


@newo1928: HD-DVD providing superior quality? Really? Where? How? HD-DVD might be the current leader but on an almost non-existent market. Over here (Portugal), on the local AV forums, I don’t hear anyone mention that they purchased either format. What I know is that on the 23rd the PS3 will launch here and preorders are already sold out on several places. So, a lot of PS3s will start arriving at people’s homes pretty soon. Not too difficult to predict what will happen next: lots of Blu-Ray players on people’s homes (PS3) and an almost non-existent HD-DVD market. Sorry HD-DVD fanboys but the same which happened in the US but probably on an even more severe scale, will happen in Europe: pretty soon Blu-Ray will overtake HD-DVD, via the PS3 trojan horse. By the way, one should bear in mind that, AFAIK, there are currently no local Blu-Ray or HD-DVD discs editions (there’s no player market for either one). The same should be true for many (all?) the other European markets, except, of course the UK/Ireland (they can purchase the US editions, since they speak the same language). Now I wonder… when the local editions start arriving, what will happen? Will people go for HD-DVD and it’s almost non-existent player sales base? Or will they purchase Blu-Ray discs to play on the PS3 they have at home? Not too difficult to figure out what will happen, I suppose? :wink: So, sorry again, HD-DVD fanboys, but I basically see no way for your format to win this. I know you hate Sony, blah, blah, blah, but you’ll have to eat a lot of crow on this.


Everyone has suggested BlueRay will win due to its inclusion in the PS3. But nobody has so far mentioned the Xbox360’s HD-DVD drive. This can (apparently) connect to not just your standalone xbox360 but also your normal PC. And allow you to watch and backup HD-DVD’s on your PC or Xbox console Also it is much cheaper than the PS3 counterpart. And in hardware test magazines it was rated as better (hardware) player quality than the Japanese PS3 it was compared with (but it did add the PS3 can have firmware updates to correct the problems it found during tests). The thing that makes the decision for me is that I have read that BlueRay still uses the old outdated MPEG2. Whereas HD-DVD uses newer MPEG4? codecs.


@ DD : I think youre right. Blu camp should eventually beat HD in quality as both use same codecs but Blu has more bits per layer. But as for masses the outcome is not entirely clear. I suppose todays surge in sales owes for the “free” hi-def drives in PS3s. Many owners just buy or rent some movies out of curiosity and once they dont find much difference on their 720p sets they’ll be back to DVD rentals, which can also be ‘backed’ for way less $$. To give an example today u can go and get a SACD based system with hi-end components for a few grand. However, not only sheeple ignore hi-rez audio as an option, but prefer getting the gear from the same store they buy toilet paper. :B For myself untill the moment the media hits a few bucks a pop I see no reason for any upgrades. Cheers


Well if anyone would NOTICE, HD DVD is falling behind BR only slightly in sales in north america but the number of blu ray players vs. HD DVD players is way more for blu-ray, so blu-ray is selling far less movies per player purchased. Lets see what happens when consumer players are the norm (ie more standalone players sold than PS3’s) and the sales are not inlfuenced by Piece of S*it 3 owners who want to check out a blu-ray title to see what its all about. Go HD DVD and happy birthday !


PS3, PS3, oh man, how boring this word is. Do any of you Sony fanboys still watch your movies on PS2 or what ? Oh, no ? Then why do you claim people will do it on the PS3? :stuck_out_tongue: Not that I’d care, good luck with those BlueRay lasers $ony uses in their PS3. :r regards, Stephen


I love how people always quote attach rates being low for BluRay as a BAD thing. Let me just explain something here: BluRay has an existing install base of 5:1 BluRay capable players in comparison to HDDVD, including the PS3 and XBox 360 attachment. Let’s throw some numbers in there for comprehension sake. Let’s say BluRay has 1000 players in a single area and HDDVD has 200 (same ratio 5:1, the number itself is just to make it easier to discuss). Now current sales trends (from Nielson ratings) show that BluRay is outselling HDDVD by 2:1 in North America. so let’s throw those numbers in there too. On a monthly basis, let’s use a scale of 2000 discs for BluRay, and 1000 discs for HDDVD (again, same ratio of 2:1). In order for BluRay to DOUBLE their sales volume, they would need to convince 1000 people to buy 4 movies a month instead of 2 movies a month (2000 movies divided by the number of players is 2 movies per player). For HDDVD however, in order to double their sales, they would need to convince their customers to buy 10 movies each month instead of 5 each month. Going from 2 movies to 4 movies is much MUCH easier then going from 5 movies to 10 movies, on a monthly basis. Yes, having a high attach rate is generally good… but it also means that you have less growth potential, and less incentive to offer sales promotions on products, since people are already buying a lot of product each. Low attach rates are only a really bad thing if your overall sales are poor. But in the case of BluRay, their overall sales per month are 2x that of HDDVD, and the gap is widening. So having 1/5 the attach rate of HDDVD means they have HUGE potential for sales growth, which can potentially be tapped with only a little effort. Something like maybe that huge 50% off sale at amazon.com right now on 47 selected BluRay titles. If HDDVD wants to survive at this point, they need something new to come out in their favour. They can not simply coast on promises of cheap Chinese made HD DVD players that have yet to materialize, and seemingly empty promises of 51 GB 3 layer discs that likely are not backward compatible with existing players. But I mean come on… Toshiba has ALWAYS been one of the worst optical drive manufacturers… is it really so surprising that they would run their format into the ground without additional consumer electronics company support?


Blu-Ray and HD-DVD have support for exactly the same codecs. It’s just a publisher (Studio) decision on which one they want to encode. The first few Blu-Ray discs were published on MPEG-2. Nowadays, AFAIK, that is no longer the case. When standalone players are the norm, the price difference will be non-existant. Prices are already falling dramatically and standalone Blu-Ray players are approaching HD-DVD prices. Also don’t forget Blu-Ray has an enourmous consumer electronics companies support. On the long run, they will not be beat on price. Just wait and watch. Another thing you don’t seem to factor in: while Blu-Ray has the backing of a lot of well known consumer electronic brands, the HD-DVD camp has Toshiba and what else? Panasonic? Over here, for example, especially on the case of Toshiba, it has very marginal sales, compared with other brands. Panasonic does a bit better but is still far behind other brand names, like Sony, Samsung, Philips, LG, etc. HD-DVD drive for X360? Not the same thing. To get one you need to specifically purchase one. While, with the PS3 you already have it. A world of difference. There are, I believe over 10 million X360s sold and, last time I heard, not more than 100.000 HD-DVD drives sold for it. Less than 1%. PS3 = 100% will have the player built in. Also, if you are thinking about using the HD-DVD drive on a PC you will need a powerful machine, otherwise it will not run properly.


Well IMO, Blu-ray wouldn’t have a chance without the PS3 artificially affecting the figures. The regular players are nearly twice what a HD-DVD player is selling for. If Sony wasn’t taking a HUGE loss with each PS3, we would see a different story folks. Sony might be looking at huge losses if their system doesn’t take off selling many titles, which they are hoping for. As far as Xbox HDDVD, with multi-core cpus being the norm with new PCs, I think you won’t need the latest greatest system out there to play a disc. Also, I think the wildcard here is how copyable and playable a format will be. With ANYDVD HD, people are able to play HD on regular equipment, like me and my Dell 24" Widescreen monitor that isn’t HDCP, and should be able to backup their discs. Once the flood gates open on that, I think we will see a winner and my prediction is HDDVD. Bluray would be nice for capacity but I don’t see it being the winner in the long run especially once the PS3 craze has passed. On another note, I have a PS3 sitting in my living room now. It is my friends. From what I have seen, I am not impressed with the games, the game play, nor the graphics. IMO, PCs are only lagging minutely behind in graphics. I give PCs 6 months to a year to catch up before PS3 graphics are old news. So, you spent $600 + dollars on a console system that will be out of date within a year. Another thing, I would recommend that you read the article on Valve at http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/cpu/valve-multicore.ars/3 It is a good sign of what is to come in the PC gaming market and multicore systems. Consoles would have to implement similiar plans to keep up with the PCs in the near future IMO.


I think it’s foolish for anyone to think that Blu-ray is going to disappear. Although HD DVD is a more attractive format for HDef (price wise), Blu-ray really does have the edge with industry support - and that’s what really matters. A sizeable number of content producers for a specific HD format are vital for that formats success.


“Blu-ray really does have the edge with industry support - and that’s what really matters.” The consumers are what makes or breaks the product. If they want Bluray then Bluray will win or vice versa.


People, stop for a moment and check the facts. Both formats are roughly similar in quality. After all they are just recording mediums. It’s the codec and the way it was encoded that matters, not the format in itself. Blu-Ray, however has the upper here with the much larger available capacity. So, quality/capacity wise Blu-Ray is the winner. Blu-Ray has the overwhelming consumer electronics industry support. It means that there will be a lot of competition on that front, with a lot of products from lots of companies. In contrast, HD-DVD will have much less competition and products available. Also the backers, i.e. Toshiba, have a lot less brand recognition, at least on this side of the Atlantic. Blu-Ray also has the upper hand in terms of studio support. Blu-Ray will also have, probably for a long time or most likely forever, the advantage on installed player base (courtesy of PS3). On a side note, I laugh at HD-DVD fanboys crying foul for the PS3 carrying a Blu-Ray player and singlehandedly eating HD-DVD sales figures for lunch. Ahahah, that was exactly Sony’s plan! And you all laughed and scorned?! Now you say it’s unfair? That’s really funny. So, what exactly does HD-DVD have going for it? All the time I just hear one single, somewhat valid item: player price. Now, HD-DVD fanboys, pause for a moment and think real deep inside yourselves: do you really, really believe that will be the deciding factor? Really? For sure? Consumer electronics companies are not worrying too much about prices, right now. They now only early adopters are purchasing their stock. When (if ever) the market decides to accelerate HD adoption, the prices will fall and HD-DVD will not have an advantage here. Just wait. Finally, consumers will not go for one format or the other because they like one format over the other. That is for fanboys. Consumers are not fanboys. They will go for what is available and for what they perceive as the best value for their money. In the long run and unless something changes dramatically (Toshiba offering players if one purchases HD-DVD discs; hey I would not mind that! :g ), HD-DVD has basically nil changes of succeeding: they are already falling behind on sales figures, even now, when they have cheaper players!!! Exactly when are they supposed to regain the lead??? While for HD-DVD only early adopters are going for it, for Blu-Ray (courtesy of PS3) a lot more discs are already being sold, obviously not only by early adopters. Wait for Blu-Ray player prices to fall and fall and fall and, adding all the facts above, you’ll see what will happen… :wink: I’m sorry HD-DVD fanboys and anti-Sony fanboys but your preciooous format will not win it. Better prepare for it now rather than having to suffer for a long time. :wink:


"Now, HD-DVD fanboys, pause for a moment and think real deep inside yourselves: do you really, really believe that will be the deciding factor? Really? For sure? " Of course price is going to play a BIG part in it. Why would anyone want to pay nearly twice as much for something that plays at the same resolution? "Finally, consumers will not go for one format or the other because they like one format over the other. " Really? I guess you don’t remember beta and vhs do you. “Blu-Ray has the overwhelming consumer electronics industry support.” "Blu-Ray also has the upper hand in terms of studio support. " Trust me, they can have all the support they want but it comes down to consumers BUYING the players, equipment, and discs. Besides, if the other format is winning, you can count on the industry and studios changing over to get a piece of the money pie. It is all about money in the end my friend.


I love how HDDVD fans are constantly reminding everyone that it’s the consumer who chooses the winning format, and not the level of industry support… But who has the consumer been choosing so far? Let’s take a look at the numbers… oh, BluRay is outselling HDDVD on a 2:1 ratio for 2.5 months now, and has surpassed the total disc sales of HDDVD, despite a few month lead in getting product to market, even though HDDVD players are a little cheaper even. Well, it sounds to me like we’re seeing the beginning of a consumer opinion forming. And no, not just because of 2.5 months of sales… but because BluRay had such a HUGE surge that they completely turned around HDDVD’s initial lead, which was not a small thing to accomplish.


"Of course price is going to play a BIG part in it. Why would anyone want to pay nearly twice as much for something that plays at the same resolution? " Yeap! There’s where HD-DVD fanboys get it all wrong: 1. You are already able to purchase Blu-Ray players (standalone) for $500. “Twice as expensive”? I don’t think so. 2. What you fail to realize, despite the fact that it was clearly spelled out for you: HD-DVD might have slightly cheaper players, right now. But and this was my point, this will not be so for a very long time. As soon as the market, i.e. not just early developers, start to gain traction, Blu-Ray players will not, well, cannot really, be more expensive than HD-DVD. Coupled with the other reasons, means that HD-DVD has no way of winning. Not a single advantage and several disadvantages. Just to put this is perspective, I looked at places over here and I couldn’t find a single HD-DVD on sale. And only very limited Blu-Ray players offerings. Again, I couldn’t find a single local edition of either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD discs. The market is still an infant one and there’s simply no incentive for manufacturers to lower prices. These prices are still for early adopters. But even at this early stage of the game and has Dolphinius_rex is clearly telling you, Blu-Ray is already clearly in front. How anyone thinks HD-DVD can turn this around is beyond me. How exactly? Because HD-DVD fanboys wish that to happen? :wink:


Blu-ray players at Future Shop are currently selling for $1,299 Canadian. I can get a HD DVD player for $550. Blu-ray is MORE than twice the cost. Yes, right now Blu-ray is in front. However, the race has just started and my money is on HD DVD. Dolphinious_Rex is giving us lots of statistics about the death of HD DVD, but don’t believe him folks. I think he’s a used car salesman in real life. Yuk. :slight_smile: