Having Taiyo Yuden Problems on a Lite-On 811S

I’ll revise my statment a little too. It seems that most of the people that are trashing liteons are refering to 16x drives. I have never owned a 16x liteon nor have I heard a lot of people saying they were good so I cannot say that they are good. I kind of wish more people would say that specific models are good or bad (I’m guilty too as I said liteons are good based on my experiences with the 851s). It would be more accurate to say that I think that the 851s is a good drive. Further, people have seemed to have good luck with the 832s drives. While the 811s seemed to have a few more problems, I seem to remember plenty of happy owners too. They make some good readers too (like the 166s, if I got that model number right). The same probably go for any company to some extent. It would seem that the nec 3520 is not as good of a drive as the 3500 and people are actually making an effort to get the 3500 instead of the 3520.
One other thing to note from that thread “which drive would you NOT recomend”. Every brand got votes because somebody doesn’t like them.
threads like that might be of help to jojobaja for purchasing a new drive (as it would liklly be that it would be a 16x drive) and refrencing it does apply to him because he is considering buying a new drive, but It also doesn’t apply to him in refrence to the drive he already has. There have been two or more “whats the best 16x burner” threads and they caused a lot of confusion (ballot stuffing campains and stuff) and now a which would you not recomend thread. What we need is a what specific model would you recomend threads or what specific model would you recomend against thread. That could get very confusing (not sure you could do a poll) as there are so many models but it would be helpfull to many if it could be kept organized. I guess that someone would have to tabulate the results occationally and post the current score (probably way to many drives for a pole).
Here is my (revised) 2 cents worth though. The 811s is a good enough drive to keep and with the right firmware and media (you should be able to find plenty of good medias it likes) you should have no problems getting good burns. Just find what your drive likes. The 811s will probably prefer + media and bitsetting is a very good idea for best compatibility. If you decide to buy another drive (I would in no way say that would be a bad decision), if you have the bays and controler slots avalable, I would continue to run the liteon and the new drive. If you have the bay but not the controller slot, it might be worth getting an ide controller card (you can get them pretty cheap and it will allow you to add 4 more drives like other hard drives and stuff). If nothing else, it will allow you to run kprobe scans (liteon burners are very good at reporting errors and kporbe was written by a liteon employee to take advantage of that ability). I would suspect that if you use very many diffrent medias, sooner or later you will find some that burn beter on the liton than your new drive. If you do not have a a dvd-rom, the liteon may rip faster than your new drive depending what you get (not sure about the ripping speed of the 811s or if it has a riplock). You’ll have to check the liton forum for info on the ripping abilities of the 811s. Depending on what software you use, ripping speed may or may not matter but their can be other advantages to having two drives. I use nero and anydvd so it rips while it encodes (so ripping time doesn’t really matter). With two drives I can just put the original and the blank in, start it, come back later and it’s done. With one drive you have to come back in the middle to swap disks (the original for the blank). Not the bigest thing in the world but still convient.
As far as what drive to buy if you decide to get another one, I would recomend the nec3500 (works great for me and many others like it too). Thats not the only good drive though and thats only an opinion. I would not buy a drive based on other people opinions alone. I would look into several drives that people say are good and look at what advantages and disadvantages they have (can they bitset, hows the media support, do they error report, how is the firmware support and whats avalable for hacked firmwares, hacking tools, can it stratagy swap, what tools are avalable for it etc.) To make it easier, cdfreaks have done some very good reviews that clearlly point out some of the strong and weak points of the drives. Just click reviews at the top of the page. What might be a very important feature/capability to have for someone else might not be so important to you.
Just a little more of my opinion, so take it for what it is.

Just something I wanted to note. Yuden000t02 was burning ok on both of my drives but I got some tdk yuden000t02 last night and seem to have problems again. I’m realy starting to wonder about this media? It’s not the worst scan in the world but why the spike in the begining. I tried one from an old pack and it didn’t do this.
See the 18th post in this thread for a scan, it wouldn’t let me upload it on two diffrent threads.
http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=126845

I’ve read about bad Fuji Yudens. Now we’re talking about TDK Yudens. Do you live in a metro area with mild climate? Suspect these problems may be related to the storage environment.

I live in Texas (outside of dallas). It gets very hot during the summer but not to cold during the winter (it hasn’t been very bad latlly). Still, who knows where and for how long they have been stored before thay make it to the store.

They use thermal stress test up to 194F to test DVD media. I’m sure the stock warehouse can hit 160F with ease during the summer.

Anyone living in Southern California with bad Taiyo Yuden media? I would suspect most of the Japanese stuffs come in via the port of Long Beach, California.

@ripit
You need to scan your discs on another drive.
I’ve retired my 811S for the same reason.

Picked up some Fuji YUDEN000 T02 and the 811S scanned PIs in the thousands.
Picked up some TDK YUDEN000 T02 and got the same results.
I cursed the hell out of TY media and posted about the suspected quality.
Picked up some MAXELL 002 and the results were the same.

Bought a ND-3500 and burned all the above media then scanned on the 811S.
The results did not change. Terrible scans on the 811S.
Replaced the 811S with a 1633S and the scans are now what I expected them to be regardless of what they were burned on.

Even discs that scanned awful on the 811S scanned fine on the 1633S.
MAXELL 002, Fuji and TDK Yudens, RICOH, all scans fine with the 16633S.

I wasted two-thirds of a Fuji 50PK spindle, half of a TDK 50PK spindle and one-third of Maxell 25PK spindle, only to find out that there was absolutely nothing wrong with the discs. The drive was at fault.

Retired the 811S to the garbage can.

Hey Nemesys…

Good God don’t say that to ripit. You’ll give the Dude a stroke. He loves his Litey. But ripit buddy, he has a point. If you can try scanning on a different Litey or BenQ if you have any friends that may have one. Hate to say it, but Nemesys could have a point.:sad:

Mark

Ok, I typed a long responce (you guys know I love long responces) but lost it. when I tried to post it says I wasn’t loged in, then I loged in I got an invalid thread message, and when I tried to back up the post was gone. Probably too much spyware, viruses, trojans and whatever the hell trying to trash my system (time to reinstall again or maybe try to clean it up if I feel patient enough). Thats why my main computer is not and never will be conected to the internet. It has been running flawlessly for quite a long time now, not a single bug or hiccup. I just flat out never have a problem with that computer. Windows and all the programs all run smooth and stable as shit.
To sumarise.
This is far from the first time I have heard the scanning abilities of older or mid generation liteons questioned. I have wondered if my drive is scanning right many times. Many good quality medias scan very good and play flawlessly. scans seem to accuratlly coorelate with the playability of the disk. I still accept the fact that my liteon may not be scanning right. I want to start doing cdspeed scans on my 3500 to see how they compare with kprobe scans on the same disk. I have burned hundreds of disks that scan flawlessly in my liteon and they all play flawlessly. It also seems to accuratly reprresent stuff burned on my 3500 (good scans play great, questionable scans may play fine or skip a little, bad scans have playing problems. I am defanatlly keeping an open mind but I truelly believe that the few t02 packs that I have tried varried (not nessasarilly in quality but they varied in a way that the firmware was ablke to burn them). I am just starting to explore this issue so anything is possible and I accept that.

If you’re having trouble burning TY +R media with your Litey, try using TY -R media. :wink: Yes, you read me right! :bigsmile:

Genuine TY -R media (both 4x TYG01 and 8x TYG02) burn an absolute treat with Lite-on drives. :cool:

It has been to long (was watching a movie with the wife-sharks tale)for me to edit but rereading my post, it is very argumentitive. That is not they way my first post was (that got lost) and that is not what I meant. I basically said most of what I wanted to say but my previous post expanded on it (my unsureness about some issues and my desire to discuss those issues with you fine people (especially sportfish, he’s the man :)))
My post seemed very argumentitive to me and that is not what I intended. I was only presenting my thoughts, therorys and observations. I’n not sure on some of those points so disscussion would help a lot.
Also, I have hijacked this thread from jojobaja so maybe a few coments on his ordeal (speak your bad all you want about liteons, I won’t get upset, just give him an honest opinion but if possible be drive specific). Coments on drives as well as ty t02 welcome.
I dared to say that ricohjpnr01 was beter than yuden000t02, and after getting completlly trashed by everyone, even though I tried to qualify with statments such as ty is beter quality but ricohjpnr01 is more compatible, then after getting trashed again I qualified that ricohjpnr01 is beter than yuden000t02 on liteon drives (because they blamed my bad scans on the fact that I was burning them on a liteon). I got the usally, ty is beter period (with some explinations about production methods etc. if I recall right).
… I’ll have the balls to say it again (and I am prepared to get slammed by most of the members on this site, just like last time). Ty got thier reputation by providing the best quality media possible. They had the best dyes and gave the utmost to quality standards in production. I do not doubt that and I fully understand all you dedicated ty fans.
I’ll say this… I have never used any ty media except yuden000t02. I do not doubt that other ty media is the best in the world and is flawless. My observation is that ty earned thier rep on - media (I may be way off thier but that is what I have observed (and I know that I have not been doing ths as long as many so I qualify that too).
My statment is this (hopfully for the benifit of jojobaja). The t02 problem was blamed on liteons till it started showing up in other drives (like nec’s). My first pack of fuji (t02) media kprobed off the scale (and would not play, no disk present etc). My next pack (after a fight with fry’s, they exchanged it), burned much beter (didn’t change anything but the media). It still scanned very bad though. I finally found firmware that worked and burned it well. So I only had a little t02 media (wouldn’t buy more cause I prefered ricohjpnr01). I get some tdk ty and it has burn problems (still under limits but bad spikes and stuff). So I burn some fuji t02 and it burns great. Maybe the fuji was bad, I found a firmware that would burn the bad shit well, so maybe the firmware I’m using is tuned for the bad fuji stuff and that’s why it doesn’t like the new stuff.
Ok, enough of this. I am not the only one having problems with t02 anymore. Further (since some of you blamed it on liteon), it’s not just litons anymore. I quit complaining about about it because my t02 was burning great (till I got another pack).
I know that ty is the gold standard and they earned that rep. I know that many get great burns with t02 consistantlly.
We know that thier are problems with some t02 media (in all honesty, it could still be the best media but the drive manufactures are falling down on the job with proper burn stratigies). It is possible that ty media is stil bullet proof and the fuji problems were because of poor write strategys from several manufactures). We all know that three things are required for a good burn. Quality disks, proper write strategy, and your drive has to like it. You can have two identical drives with the same firmware and the same media, and one will burn good, the other wont, we all know this. So who do we blame for a bad burn?
jojobaja is having problems with t02. We automatically assume that his drive is at fault (if it were another brand drive, we would be blaming the firmware, not the hardware).
After all that (and I’m sure that I have pissed off several people )please be civil and tell me where and exactlly why I am wrong.
My point is, t02 packs vary to the point that you can have firmware and a drive that likes it on one pack but doesn’t like another pack, and that is ty’s fault. Were comimg up with excuesses like maybee it was exposed to heat (couled have bee dropped too). That polly carbonite is very heat resistant (and actually very scratch resistant but the laws of physics demand, a harder object will scratch a softer object, PERIOD, no eception, and polly carbonite is tough but not hard enough.
If thier is varyation between packs enough to cause burning problems, thats ty’s fault.
So now for responses (I exspect to get slammed really bad for bad talking ty, so bring it on. I am perfectlly willing to discuss this, and if you wish to show evidence of my being wrong on any point, if you show it as an adult and rationally say this is where your are wrong and this is why and this is my evidence, I’l openlly change my point of view.
I say yuden000t02 is problamatic and it is the disks fault. Too many drive/firmware combinations are not supporting and that may be the drive/firmwares fault, but the disks vary too much. I don’t care how good thier production standards are, if the disks vary enough that from pack to pack, they wont burn well with the same firmware and drive, its the disk fault.
Ready for ramifications (basically expecting a wholesale slauder of me, and kill me if you wish, just justify your trust in yudent00t02).

Ok you posted that during the hour I was writing my post (so I didn’t see it). Ok fine, so it took me an hour since I am drinking (benned warned once I think). You put things more elegantlly than me but???
The thread was started by someone that was going to give up his drive and buy a new one because ty t02 media burned like shit (crap, I’m sorry. lol). I am not looking for new media. Im am completlly insane and therefor have about 1000 blank disks. I cannot stop buying. I bought the media because I was curious what the pack would be. I plan on transfering years of stuff on my hard drives as well as decades of video tapes to dvd, and am playing wit the best way to do each (not in a hurry). I therory, all that could use 70 percent of my disks but it would take 256 billion years to know that it would take 28 years to encode all that. I have out of the 1000 disks, at least 600-700 disks that I know for a fact wil burn with way major quality so much that I dont even bother to scan many disks.

Strewth and I thought my present stock of about 150 (all TY or Verbatim, btw) was over the top. :eek: :bigsmile:

I have no idea why I have bought so much media. Every time it goes on sale and there is something I like for a great price, I but a little. I just buy more than I uses so month after month, my stocks keep getting bigger and bigger. I should be honest though, I have included as much as 200 disks that are crap in those numbers (at the most). I have a little less than 100 disks (fry’s shit that I paid around 15 dollars for when media was a buck a disk (4x fake sony, media code sony, yea thats it, just sony). About 25 cmcmagaf1’s, about 25 assortted princos from diffrent batches, a 25 pack of 4x gq fry’s shit (that is prodisk or something and actually burned pretty good but I dont trust it so I just havent used it. Some assortted shit (in jewl cases bought in 5 or ten packs). Over 300 ricohjpnr01 (and thats probaly not counting the various spindles (mostly 15 pk maxell) that are laying all over the place. About 200 cmcmage01 (sorry but that shit burns really well for me (and I mean really well). About 200 sony and maxell -/+of various varietys (just looking at the shelf and guesing how much I have). A 50 pack ov verbatium 8x+r. Other assorted shit… Some ricohjpnr02’s in thier (nkow that thier is at least two packs.
It’s not a diesease, it’s a sickness. If it were a disease, I would make my medical insurance pay for the blank disks!!!

Hey ripit…

When the insurance pays, PLEASE let me know cuz I have the same disease cept you got me by about 150. Last check, I had 850 blanks laying around.:stuck_out_tongue:
But now just for shits, I’ve got both the TDK TY’s and the Fuji TY’s. I will now test one of each and post. The burn will be done on the 3500. Lets see what we come up with.

Mark

Ok so I was a little drunk last night so I may have ranted a little. I still wonder though. I know that some of you have had problems with this media while others swear by it. Has anybody else experienced inconsistancy though (one pack burns great, another doesn’t burn as good, using the same drive and firmware)? I’ll be watching to see what you get with yours Sportfish.

Almost done with the TDK

I’m thinking that I am going to leave the firmware on my liteon alone. I have tried many diffrent firmwares on it (including hacked ones) and the current firmware (851s@832s vsob omnipatched) burns a wide variety of media very well (all the good stuff like ricoh, maxell, sony, mcc, gives exceptional burns). It even burns the fuji t02 that I already had good (it is just having problems with the new tdk t02 that I got). I am still running oem mad dog firmware on my 3500 so I think that I’ll play with the firmware on it and see if I can get it to burn the tdk t02 good. Is dee and liggy’s still one of the beter 3500 firmwares to look at (I know, read post and search the nec forum, I plan on it).

OK ripit…

Here’s the TDK. I’ve seen better, but I’ve seen a lot worse too. Now I’ll do the Fuji. As I said before, I burnt this with my 3500 with Dee’s 1st new F/W of the Mad Dog version. I’ve flashed so many f—ing times I can’t remember the number but I’m pretty sure it’s LD_V2_Beta8. I just dbl. checked and it is Beta 8. The burn was set to Max.

Mark





I have been getting a bit beter than that with the fuji ty. If I can come up with some stuff to burn (maybe I’ll transcode some more xvids but that could take a while) I’ll try more of the tdk ty to see if I keep getting bad results. I guess that I may be getting to critical too. The tdk scans are still under limits and play fine. I’m just used to getting much beter scans with premium media. If it were not for scanning, I would probably never know that it wasn’t a perfect burn.
Is it wrong to expect an exelent scan from every single disk from every single pack if it plays alright? I really don’t know. Maybe I am just getting spoiled because the majority of my media (carefully selected stuff that I know burns good for me like ricoh, cmcmage01, maxell, sony etc.) does burn and scan great every single time through hundreds of disks. There was of course a learning curve before I got to that point though (still got a little bit of crappy stuff like princo sitting on the shelf, bought back when I first started burning dvd’s).

Here ya go ripit…

Here’s the Fuji’s and they’re pretty similar. Once again not the greatest and not the worsed. The Qual test is a lttle better on the Fuji’s. But they both take a shit at the end of the create data test.:confused: