Has Lite-on replied to anyone about the problems with the ldw-411s?

can anyone confirm if they have said anything or that they intend to fix the problem with the drive basicly not writing to -r discs.

thanks

I have contacted liteon several times. The first time I was polite and to the point but I got no response. The second time I let rip and gave them both barrels. They won’t reply but it made me feel better.
I have contacted several retailers about the ldw-411s and suitable media and they both told me that Liteon are compiling a database of dvd-r media and that there will be a new firmware out next week.
I hope it works, it would be great to have the flexibility of using the cheap media like the pioneer 106 users:) :wink:

were takin a bit of a chance though arnt we? i mean this drives no use to me if it wont write the same discs as my pioneer 105 am not buy loads of diff brands i just want both drives to write my ritek g04 discs well my pioneer does no probs.

but once we update the firmware isn’t out chances of gettin a return slimmer as they say ur not suppsed to touch the firmware if ur returning the product so if we do n its no better what do we do?

I have already got this drive so it is big news to me.
I have to use ritek G04’s. They work great. Not a single dud yet.
I just want to be able to use cheaper discs when I want to.

hmm ell up to now i cant use any apart from the free disc that came with the drive and cdr’s

i phoned my supplier before and they said lite-on are aweare of the problem and they are creating a new database for the new firmware that should be out soon.

The discs I use are the datasafe ones.
I get them here and they work well. No duds yet.

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/DVD_Media.html

Luckily this shop is only a couple of miles away so it is quite convenient

the drive basicly not writing to -r discs

This is news to a lot of people.
Perhaps you meant to say that you have trouble with some media?

TY 4x DVD-R burned at 4x:

Prodisc 2x DVD-R burned at 2x:

Go and clean your lens! :stuck_out_tongue:

To get a better visual comparability of my scans I use fixed scaling (PI = 300, PO = 10).

what i dont understand anymore is, there is a clear problem with this drive, and more people are having problems with writing discs than people who can write them fine, but what i dont get is, everyones using the same firmware as theres only 1 out right now, but most people are saying they cant write to -r discs, i havw ritek g04 discs and cant write em, so why can some people write them?

surely everyones should be the same, if everyones using the same firmware

most people

more people are having problems

I don’t know where you get these statistics. People post here because they are having problems, not because they aren’t. We really have no idea how many people have issues, but by and large the issues are with DVD- media and/or drives that have been hacked in some way. DVD- media is much more difficult to burn correctly than DVD+, so it’s no surprise that any problems with be more common with DVD-. But the media itself is the greatest influence on write quality. Not firmware or anything else. The drive maker’s chore is to try to balance the drive’s settings so that it will give the best performance on the widest range of media. DVD-R is by far the most difficult as it is less tolerant of errors.
I suspect that media is responsible for most, if not all, of the issues we’ve seen thus far. The drive may fail, in some cases, to compensate correctly for the media it’s trying to burn, and these issues will be resolved over time, but the best possible explanation for why some drives burn a given media type, and others dont, is either variation in production quality in the drives, or variation in the media, OR a combination of both.
DVD burning is enormously complex, many times more so than CD’s. Suggest reading Spath’s article on DVD-/+ technology for some illumination on the topic. Read it here.

When you see a media like TY that produces great quality burns on virtually every drive, then that should tell you that something is up with the other media that does not do this. I suspect that media makers have as much, if not more, to learn as drive makers do.

Maybe the media quality of the Riteks is far away from being constant?

As there are obviously no DVD-R parameters in flash, the writer is burning with a default strategy. If your disc is in an acceptable range according to the DVD-R spec, the disc would be written with a good quality. If your discs in outside the acceptable range the discs would be probably a coaster. DVD-R medias are more complex to write than DVD+R cause the sector addressing is a compromise. So, any variation in manufacturing makes it harder to write correctly with a default strategy.

The yield of the current DVD production processes isn’t very high so a manufacturer may be more tolerant about the quality variation to get a higher yield. Ritek manufactures for many other brands so they need a high output and a high yield with lower costs than competitors like Maxell, Taiyo Yuden, MCC, etc.

i totaly disagree with you rdgrimes

i seen a article for sumone who programs firmwares and he sed he couldn’t see much at all for support for dvd- discs, this has now been proved as lite-on have now contacted most re-sellers saying they are creating a new database for a new firmware coming out within about a week.

so they are admiting they isn’t much support there for dvd-r discs.

plus if it was a media problem, then the same discs wouldn’t write on a pioneer drive would they? but they do, and why because of the actualy drive and make up of the firmware.

so i just wnana wait for this formware now.

Well, some people are better at repeating rumors than at trying to understand issues. The fact that something is posted in a forum does not make it so. Quoting it as a statement of fact is just silly. A second-hand rumor does not mean much of anything, (unless you work for the news media). I, for one, am through with this “discussion”, but be advised that when you post second-hand rumors as statements of fact, and make broad, unsubstantiated generalizations based on very limited experience, you do yourself, the forum, and the members a real disservice.
If you want to get much from forums, you first need to learn to separate the BS from actual 1st-hand experience.

@ schrubber

As there are obviously no DVD-R parameters in flash, the writer is burning with a default strategy

Read Spath’s article. I’m not sure how much room there really is to play with the DVD- parameters, unlike DVD+. Certianly food for discussion in a more appropriate thread.

i have 1st hand experince i have had a pioneer 105 since last xmas and been producing dvds for ages, also i phoned overclockers.co.uk today and they confirmed there is a issue and lite-on are working on it now

Lite-On is not alone with this problem.

About every manufacturer except pioneer it seems, have problems with keeping up with support for all the cheap low quality DVD-R discs on the market.

Pioneer have long time experience with DVD-R while Lite-On is new at it…

So my best guess is that it will require a few firmware upgrades to get more media support, but at the moment stick to the better brands (Taiyo Yuden, mitsubishi etc).

Stating that it do not work is wrong as it do work with the most known high quality DVD-R manufacturers.

I think dvd_kreator is on the right track . I have spoken to a few people/suppliers about suitable media for the drive and I was advised several times to get G04’s, TY’s or wait until next week when the new firmware is out. These people are telling me that they are feeding back to LiteOn.
I think the moderator is being a little arrogant in not listening to the members of the forum and their experiences.
It could just be that loads of other people are wrong and the moderator is right but we will only know for sure in the next couple of weeks if LiteOn release a new firmware.

It’s not necessary to point us out as moderators. Poeple can see it in our status if it even matters.

We’re pretty much just normal forum users like yourself and we can post our opinions just as much as you can. rdgrimes has backed himself up pretty well. The only reason that I ever had problems with my drive was before we knew that our EEPROM’s were unique, and I had mine changed to a friends’ for the heck of it. Other than that, I’ve never had a problem burning any of my discs. Of course this drive doesn’t support all kinds of media, and rdgrimes explained why best.

I only used the term moderator because I could not remember his name. It was not supposed to interpreted as being offensive

i just do think its mainly a prob wqith the drive my self, i think rdgrimes strongly made it looks more a media issue and i know and a lot of pople now know lite-on have admitted that there database hasn’t got much in it for dvd-r at all so there now adressing this.

i just think if it was media they woduln’t work on my pioneer 105 right?

so its oviously the drive.

pretty self explanitary.

the ritek G04 dye is basicly one of the most compatible around, was always one of the dearest until recently as well.
so if everyones always goin oon about using cheap media, yet most people are really trying decent media and its still not working then there is a problem.

i dont understand why some people try and really defend companies ok lite-on has a good reputation for its prices, and yes i agree, but at the end of the day a drives suppsed to do what its marketed as doing, and this drive says its a dual drive and as it stands right this minute its acting more like a + drive.

@rdgrimes:

You know the differences between DVD-R(W) and +R(W)? Why should there are differences regarding the writing strategy which consists basically of correct laser pulsing?

For everybody here a little excursion in recordable DVDs:

Both formats have a groove which is wobbled. -R(W) wobbles with a wobble frequency of 140,6kHz and uses due patent licensing issues additional land pre-pits for sector addressing. +R(W) is using a frequency modulated wobble-signal of 817kHz. The wobble-signal is the guidance for the tracking.

The amplitude of the wobble-signal (also called push-pull signal). If it’s to weak the writer has problems with tracking. Is it too strong it influences the written data.

Also, the groove has a specified depth which may vary due to production tolerances.

Next thing we have to handle is the dye. Parameters here are the chemical composition and the dye thickness. Ideally the dye covers only the groove but that’s too difficult in production.

To record, the laser must heat the dye to get spots with different reflectivity. Now we have pits (the dark spots) and lands (the bright spots). But a given laser pulse will produce different pits on various dyes cause there are the composition and the thickness. Some dye compositions are smearing more than others so you get pits with different length and edges (remember the long- and short-strategy on cd-r?). Ideally, a pit or land is multiple of one clock cycle (1T). The deviation from the pits & lands to their perfect twins (which only live in the specs) is called data-to-clock jitter.

When reading, the read signal is more or less a sinus signal. The amplitude depends on the reflectivity of the pits & lands. A sequence of shorter pit has a different amplitude than a long pit. And both have a different DC offset, called asymmetry.

The only chance a writer has to write good pits & lands is to control the laser pulses. It must know, when to turn the laser on to burn a pit on the wanted place, it must know how much laser power he may use and it must know when to turn off. Regardless wheter it’s a DVD-R or a DVD-RW! Writing a rewritable needs some more parameters as the writer must know, which power gives a crystalline spot and which power it needs to make an amporphous spot.

Each manufacturer differs in the above mentioned parameters from its competitors cause everyone controls its production process a little different from others - these are the secrets of each manufacturer. A writer must know, how to handle the medias from a manufacturer at best (assumed, the parameters are in a tight window). And this is the write strategy. Without, a writer can only try out the parameters that are written in the ATIP (look at the OPC block for 2x/4x DVD-R). But this is not as good as having its own parameters found out by extensive media testing because they are only a basic hint.

By the way: The manufacturing of a - disc is a little more difficult that making a + cause for mastering the land prepits you need two lasers for mastering: One for the groove and one for the land prepits. And if they are synchronized badly the writer has problems finding the sector borders. But this doesn’t mean that making a DVD disc is a trivial job. But that’s irrelevant here, except somebody wants to know.

And now the conclusion: A writer needs also parameters for writing - discs. And to my knowledge, these are of the same type like writing a + disc. Or why do some - writers write certain medias only at lower speed when theres no parameter set in its firmware for it?

Maybe we should start a new thread. This is getting too technical for here :slight_smile: