Hard drive evolution could hit Microsoft XP users

vbimport

#1

By early 2011 all hard drives will use an “advanced format” that changes how they go about saving the data people store on them.

The move to the advanced format will make it easier for hard drive makers to produce bigger drives that use less power and are more reliable.

Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8557144.stm

:cool::cool:


#2

HDD evolution may force Windows XP retirement.

[newsimage]http://static.rankone.nl/images_posts/2010/03/bTPIvQ.jpg[/newsimage]Hard drive manufacturers are prepared to cause a major hardware shakeup when they begin using a new "advanced format" designed to allow HDDs more storage capacity while increasing reliability and energy consumption.


Read the full article here: [http://www.myce.com/news/hdd-evolution-may-force-windows-xp-retirement-27042/](http://www.myce.com/news/hdd-evolution-may-force-windows-xp-retirement-27042/)


Please note that the reactions from the complete site will be synched below.

#3

Well I ran XP as long as I could and avoided Vista all together but once I saw the Win7 RC running at a friends house he found me a drive and I migrated over and pretty much haven’t looked back. Maybe they’ll figure out a driver that will make it work but for me I guess I don’t really care now as long as one of the new formats can read my older drives and formats so I can pull data if needed. I would think just being a format for the drive itself as long as the installed OS can see the older formats OK it shouldn’t be a issue for folks that have all ready upgraded, and probably will again when the newer format hits.


#4

Great! I don’t need to upgrade my HD yet! but I will for sure be trying windows 7 sometime!


#5

If I have a text file that takes up 100 bytes, it will take up one 512 byte sector in the old format and one 4000 byte sector in the new format. How exactly is this an improvement? There must be more to it than I understand.

RM


#6

Well there must be a gazillion hard drives out there now, including brand new IDE models to choose from. XP won’t go anywhere because of this new HDD format.


#7

I think part of the problem with XP was its longetivity. People who used computers in the 90’s were used to new OS’s every few years… all those version of DOS… then win 3 win 3.11 win95 win 98 win me. XP came out in 2000 and is still the most used OS? People used to have the patience to figure out the new os, now not so much. I finally went to win7, but it’d be so long since i’d change OS’s it too me a while to figure out the quirks (and disable most of the extra win7 security stuff).

I guess new hardware will drive upgrades… which isn’t a new thing either.


#8

[QUOTE=RichMan;2500922]If I have a text file that takes up 100 bytes, it will take up one 512 byte sector in the old format and one 4000 byte sector in the new format. How exactly is this an improvement? There must be more to it than I understand.

RM[/QUOTE]

I’m with you RichMan it makes no sense to me to go from 512 byte to 4000 byte sectors
unless I’m missing something too. :confused: :doh:


#9

Yeah I was confused at first too, but it looks like the author got it backwards. Currently the block size is 4 KB and it’ll be changed to 512 B , which would be an 8 fold increase.


#10

[QUOTE=Reverend J;2501054]Yeah I was confused at first too, but it looks like the author got it backwards. Currently the block size is 4 KB and it’ll be changed to 512 B , which would be an 8 fold increase.[/QUOTE] No, the auther is correct; the physical blocksize on harddrives has been 512 bytes for a long time, but the new “advanced format” uses 4096 byte physical blocks.

This reduces overhead on the harddrive, which can be used for e.g. increasing capacity. It should also make it possible to store partition and filesystem tables using less memory, since there will be less blocks to keep track of. This can also (slightly) improve harddrive performance.

It does have the drawback that more “slack” will exist when storing small files, when using a filesystem that cannot store more than one file per block.


#11

“While increasing reliability and energy consumption” :wink:

The tree hugging hippies won’t like this.


#12

It’s a long time overdue :iagree:

Hmmm … billions of 8W HDD’s across the world, chewing up an extra 1W of power with 10 times the storage of the 10x 7W low capacity drives they are replacing.
Won’t someone think of the children!!!

At any rate, Windows XP will be phased out by the 2014 that support ends for the OS … 12years, not a bad run for an OS. Linux is not affected by the transition, and neither are recent Mac Os’s.

Anyone that is concerned about 100byte files taking up 4KB of disc space, instead of 512B really needs to get a life …

How many miniature log files are you intending to keep on your HDD?

1024 x 4KB => 4MB’s … 10,240 x 4KB = 40MB’s … My current HDD -> 1000,000 MB … Oh the pain!!!
Use compression on your HDD, if you are concerned.

At any rate, to get HDD’s of greater capacity, the 100 fold increase in reliability is of more concern, than wasted space for small text files.

Windows 7 is decades beyond XP, and the ease of use, and small features like window previews when you flick your mouse across the sub-tasks makes it quicker & easier to use.

I honestly can’t recommend XP for home users anymore, but I completely disagree with Dell bundling X32 versions of Windows 7 with their PC’s … FFS

Windows 7 all the way … or better yet … Linux :iagree:


#13

More info: here


#14

Not concerned here debro. Just curious how it is an improvement. It’s not just small files that will waste space. Any file of ANY size could potentially waste most of a 4K sector instead of just 512 byte sector. Seems the reduced overhead with formatting etc… will make up for the extra waste though.

RM


#15

Hmm, are they saying the HDD is still on 512k sectors while Windows is using a 4k sector format since quite a while already? Sounds fairly confusing…

the bigger sector has one setback - more slack! (partly filled sectors)


#16

http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3691
http://blogs.zdnet.com/storage/?m=200912


#17

[QUOTE=Millennium12;2501220]Hmm, are they saying the HDD is still on 512k sectors while Windows is using a 4k sector format since quite a while already? Sounds fairly confusing…

the bigger sector has one setback - more slack! (partly filled sectors)[/QUOTE]
I understand that Vista, Windows7, linux and MacOs’s can all detect and use a 4K sector format drive correctly.
Windows XP & earlier use the 512b sector, and current drives all have 512b sector emulation … however performance suffers on the new drives, because earlier OS’s start their partitions at sector 63, rather than 64, or another multiple of 8.

I’d perhaps add the comment that the performance of the new drives is so far beyond what was released prior to XP, even if they took a 30% performance hit under XP, most people wouldn’t notice :stuck_out_tongue: … and if they’re still using XP when they upgrade their HDD …

No further comment :iagree:


#18

actually all already here - format your hdd to whatever cluster size you like

http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en-us/format.mspx?mfr=true


#19

That’s formatting, not partitioning.
And before you look, I assure you that you CAN specify a partition offset … but most people wouldn’t, and I sure as hell know that most computer shops don’t.

It’s kind of redundant now, as most computer shops & users will not be installing WinXP/Win2K again … hopefully.