Good Brands for BR Media?

I’ve been looking a few of the media reviews here for BR media and I’m just more and more lost as to which are considered “good” for archiving and which are considered “okay” for just copying/burning.

Is there a single thread somewhere where there is a short rundown of which brands to trust for BR media?

I just built a new system and with it I have a (or rather now will have after the old LG burner crapped out) ASUS 12X BR Burner. I’m looking at getting good archival quality BR disks (single layer 25 GB) to archive media and important files (so I can free up disk space).

Can’t go wrong with verbatim blu rays…

Also, off the beaten newegg track are JVC blu rays…

These are just about as good as you can get in the USA… there are other great quality blu rays made (special?) for the Euro and Asian markets-- but usually alot more money-- plus shipping from outside the USA could add to that cost & delivery time.

So Verbatim is trustworthy for BRs? Sorry if I find that skeptical, but I thought they had outsourced their DVD media (and/or sold off their MIDs) to various “crap” manufacturers? (Reference: DigitalFAQ Guide on Blank Media)

What about this SmartBlu stuff from MegaMediaMall.com?

Since SmartBlu media above uses TDK as a reference as well as your own reference to the quality of some TDK scans (see here), should I assume that TDK holds the crown when it comes to archival grade blu-ray media? Or is it just on par with Verbatim and Taiyo Yuden?

@Acreo_Aeneas, I think the DigitalFAQ is pretty much outdated…

Verbatim is good…

I realize it’s a bit outdated considering it hasn’t been updated for years and has nothing on BR media (hence why MyCE has turned into my reference point).

I just wish there was a comprehensive guide on how various known brands rank, which subclass of media is trustworthy for archiving, copying, coasters, etc.

I just noticed that the TY ones you (tmc8080) posted are “LTH Type”. What does that mean exactly? How does it affect the quality of the media?

I’ve seen passing remarks that Verbatim’s LTH media are not so good. Does that mean all LTH media are substandard?

Oh and how do I interpret these graphs posted (example: http://club.myce.com/f179/mitsubishi-kagaku-media-verbatim-bd-re-322160/#.UE9aBFE5DJ0)?

I assume the spikes are jitter of some sort? Does no spikes mean the disk is excellent and lots of spikes mean the disk potentially will lose the data (or has already lost data)?

[QUOTE=Acreo_Aeneas;2654112]I realize it’s a bit outdated considering it hasn’t been updated for years and has nothing on BR media (hence why MyCE has turned into my reference point).

I just wish there was a comprehensive guide on how various known brands rank, which subclass of media is trustworthy for archiving, copying, coasters, etc.

I just noticed that the TY ones you (tmc8080) posted are “LTH Type”. What does that mean exactly? How does it affect the quality of the media?

I’ve seen passing remarks that Verbatim’s LTH media are not so good. Does that mean all LTH media are substandard?

Oh and how do I interpret these graphs posted (example: http://club.myce.com/f179/mitsubishi-kagaku-media-verbatim-bd-re-322160/#.UE9aBFE5DJ0)?

I assume the spikes are jitter of some sort? Does no spikes mean the disk is excellent and lots of spikes mean the disk potentially will lose the data (or has already lost data)?[/QUOTE]

I have often wished that we could create a thread that would give you the comprehensive guide you are looking for. What makes this impossible is the fact that brands, even the big ones like Sony and TDK, are changing the sourcing of their discs with no notice to us and making it near impossible to recommend even a good disc like Sony’s 25GB 6x NN3. Depending on where you are in the world and what day of the week it is :rolleyes:, you may or may not actually get NN3’s in that spindle.

There are two manufacturers that currently have BD-R disc designs that can pass a 50+ year accelerated aging test. Panasonic and FTI(Falcon Technologies International). They are also the only two HTL BD-R still being manufactured in-house by those companies with Japanese machinery/materials/disc designs. You can be assured of getting the disc you wanted from these companies.

There is some evidence that LTH(organic) BD-R will not deliver the archival results of the best HTL(inorganic) BD-R.

The average LDC/BIS is a better indicator of burn quality/playback quality. The error correction code built in to the Blu-ray spec is easily able to overcome some moderate, isolated spikes, but a larger area of errors can be in-correctable. The spikes do not reflect jitter. On scans that show jitter with the new version 1.70 OptiDriveControl, it is represented by the horizontal line in the lower half of the graph.

Thanks for the lengthy and helpful response Dean. :slight_smile:

So now I know Panasonic and FTI offer the best media. However a quick look at their pricing over at MegaMediaMall is shockingly uber expensive. :eek:

[QUOTE=Acreo_Aeneas;2654317]Thanks for the lengthy and helpful response Dean. :slight_smile:

So now I know Panasonic and FTI offer the best media. However a quick look at their pricing over at MegaMediaMall is shockingly uber expensive. :eek:[/QUOTE]

You think that’s lengthy? I just barely got started on this subject ;). The most up-to-date and only real resource/buying guide for media quality is the ongoing threads on CdFreaks in the blank media forum and the burners forum. Any attempt(and other forums/websites have tried this) to lay out a buying guide for BD-R’s is invalid very shortly after posting. And invalid immediately if viewed by people in more than one small region. It truly sucks that even those of us trying hard to monitor what is what have so few choices to offer folks with good confidence.

As we are neighbors, I should probably point out polylinecorp to you for Falcons. You can drive over there and pick em up if you’d like :).

Panasonics can be had on E-bay for around $2.00 each in 30 spindles. And there’s a closely guarded secret that somehow got out :o that the SmartBlu’s over at MMM are actually Falcons. Don’t tell anyone else ;).

If you need every bit of those 50+ years, go with Panasonic or Falcon Pro. I am only at liberty to tell you that SmartBlu’s will give you a respectable lifespan. Pannys and Falcons have been good for video as well.

For simple movie back-ups, I’m getting good playback and some very good looking quality scans with minimal quality degradation coming up to a year old with these Melody INFOMER30 BD-R’s lately. No info on long term stability, but easily one of the best cheap/coaster-free discs I’ve come across. I’m willing to pay a little more for the discs I store my data on :).

Welcome to the forum, by the way :doh::bigsmile:

I ended up going with a 25 pack of the Verbatims that tmc8080 linked to (thanks tmc8080!). Gonna give them a try and see if they live up to their older DVD media. Smartblu is next on my list right after I save up so I can order $60 worth of spindles from MMM. :bigsmile:

Polylinecorp? checks out site Oooooh…drools…they have Falcon BD media there and they are based in Elmhurst (a bit of a drive for me). Now I have a somewhat local place to get high quality media from. :smiley:

50 years…yeah maybe when I actually have data that I think need to be archived for 50 years I’ll start forking out for Panasonic or Falcon media. For now I’m looking for decent stuff that’ll last 15-20 years. I’d be more concerned with the availability of Blu-Ray hardware 50 years from now.

CDFreaks eh? Will have to go over and browse those sections of their forum then. Thanks for the heads up Dean. You have been such a great source of knowledge. :slight_smile:

You should be off to a good start. Burn those Verbs at 6x or less. Let us know how it goes?

Old habits die hard. This was CdFreaks(and still is in my mind) when I joined it. The forums I spoke of are here and here :slight_smile:

Run a transfer rate(read speed) test on your burns to look for smooth read-back of your data to indicate a clean burn. Repeat this at 6 month intervals with the really important back-ups to catch a disc that is deteriorating before it is a lost cause. At least with the Verbs ;). JK. Anything that’s truly important to you is worth keeping an eye on.

If you have need for DVD-R, Polyline is one of the few places that stocks Falcon’s 8x DVD-Rs also. Really good stuff.

Dean, TMC, everyone - this is SUCH a depressing tale - the untrustworthiness of brands, batches, etc. We all understand the economics of pillaging the masses as quickly as possible for the most profits, but in the end, it only degrades confidence and buyers turn away from spending any money. Over and over, this is the end-result in marketplaces.

Reading that Falcon too is outsourcing and presenting questionable product lines only adds to that. They gain - what? - one or two more years of so-called profitability by selling out to the lowest-common denonminator? Then what? Finito! Kaput! “Just another name-brand like any other…” One in the thousands, no longer distinguishable, all the for the sake of a quick-turned buck instead of long-term fortune.

The concept of storing more data on a single [I]tres[/I] expensive disk then approaches folly. “Why bother? Just archive it on several cheaper DVD blanks! Risk a smaller data-loss due to poor materials, rather than a larger loss-risk!”

And, God bless 'em - they see their Optical Blanks future in limited terms, too. All I can say is, “Well, yes, when consumer confidence in your products erodes because of marketing choices, that will only give the next-technology a greater and quicker chance of acceptance.”

[QUOTE=ChristineBCW;2654682]Dean, TMC, everyone - this is SUCH a depressing tale - the untrustworthiness of brands, batches, etc. We all understand the economics of pillaging the masses as quickly as possible for the most profits, but in the end, it only degrades confidence and buyers turn away from spending any money. Over and over, this is the end-result in marketplaces.

Reading that Falcon too is outsourcing and presenting questionable product lines only adds to that. They gain - what? - one or two more years of so-called profitability by selling out to the lowest-common denonminator? Then what? Finito! Kaput! “Just another name-brand like any other…” One in the thousands, no longer distinguishable, all the for the sake of a quick-turned buck instead of long-term fortune.

The concept of storing more data on a single [I]tres[/I] expensive disk then approaches folly. “Why bother? Just archive it on several cheaper DVD blanks! Risk a smaller data-loss due to poor materials, rather than a larger loss-risk!”

And, God bless 'em - they see their Optical Blanks future in limited terms, too. All I can say is, “Well, yes, when consumer confidence in your products erodes because of marketing choices, that will only give the next-technology a greater and quicker chance of acceptance.”[/QUOTE]I need to brush up on my communication skills if I gave you the impression that Falcon is outsourcing:o. The truth is that they are one of the precious few that have completely refused to follow the majority of optical media brands that are outsourcing themselves to death. All of their media is still produced in their factory using the same top quality Japanese sourced original materials. They even came up with a clever way to improve on the already top-notch TDK BD-R designs that they produce. The absolute lowest quality BD-R that they will release from their factory is certified(on an ongoing basis) to burn 100% within BDA book spec at rated speed. Many manufacturers seem to be taking their initial BDA spec cert as a joke and quickly found ways to increase profits with lower quality materials and manufacturing lines. I imagine they could still provide a spec-worthy disc from one of their factories if it was demanded, but too much of what they are selling us is pretty sad. As a result, a “bargain” Falcon BD-R is better than what most manufacturers are producing.

The fact that at least one re-seller has gone to FTI to provide their private label media is cause to celebrate :bigsmile:. It is depressing to see the choices that other re-sellers like Vinpower, with their private label “Optical Quantum”, are making. Any time I see that name, I picture a janitorial staff wearing Optical Quantum jackets proudly sweeping their discs off the factory floor to be rushed to the packaging room :eek::bigsmile:.

You better believe I spent(and spend) serious time researching BD-R technology/manufacturing to death before I started moving to them as one level of archival storage. When archival worthy BD-R dropped in price below the $2.00/ea. level, the cost per GB and advantage of increased storage per disc made them attractive to me.

Thank goodness there are still a few prideful companies that refuse to diminish their expectations :).

Oh no no, I did my own little research too back when I was looking at DVD-Rs and such. I know FTI doesn’t outsource their disks, but if Smartblu is just the “lower” end (read: cheaper) FTI media, then I’d know I’d be getting better quality media at around the same price as other brands, especially if I buy them in volume (several 25 piece spindles).

Well I ended up wasting the very first Verbatim BR disk. My media hard drive is on it’s last legs and I’m still trying to coax as much of my files as I can off of her onto other hard drives and my SSD before I attempt another backup burn onto a BR disk.

I thought I’d read comments from “Fred” (in a different thread) that their value line was indeed outsourced. My mistake, then.

The last time I bought a pack of blank BD-R’s I got Verbatim and they’ve been alright. I have had nothing but bad experiences with their DVD discs.

One question I have though, is if you’re backing up data off of your computer, why not use an external hard drive instead?

Verbatim DVDs nowadays are crap because it’s been outsourced and are no longer produced by Verbatim (actually Mitsubishi Chemical — don’t remember the exact company name) in Japan or the UAE. There’s a complete guide on this over at DigitalFAQ and the MIDs to look for to identify the good Verbatims from the poor ones. Luckily I still have a few spindles of the old stock that I bought years ago.

If you want good quality blank DVD media, at this point, only TY (Taiyo Yuden) is considered “good” anymore without you having to hunt and find good Verbatim (which is pretty darn hard to find anywhere).

One question I have though, is if you’re backing up data off of your computer, why not use an external hard drive instead?

Reliability. HDDs just aren’t reliable anymore. The fact that 4 of the 5 HDDs that I’ve bought since Jan. 2010 have failed (or in this case failing) says a lot about their reliability. HDD to back up a HDD, that seems rather pointless. Besides my media drive is housed within my case and gets better cooled than any external HDD ever will (which should alleviate any heat related failures). Too bad they aren’t as reliable as some of the old platters I am still using (Seagate, Hitachi, and Toshiba / didn’t get any WD until the last few years since old stuff was genuinely bad).

[QUOTE=Acreo_Aeneas;2654794]Verbatim DVDs nowadays are crap because it’s been outsourced and are no longer produced by Verbatim (actually Mitsubishi Chemical — don’t remember the exact company name) in Japan or the UAE. There’s a complete guide on this over at DigitalFAQ and the MIDs to look for to identify the good Verbatims from the poor ones. Luckily I still have a few spindles of the old stock that I bought years ago.

If you want good quality blank DVD media, at this point, only TY (Taiyo Yuden) is considered “good” anymore without you having to hunt and find good Verbatim (which is pretty darn hard to find anywhere).

[/QUOTE]

I have had good luck with Sony DVDs. For external HDD’s, Seagate is all I trust.

[QUOTE=hogger129;2654836]I have had good luck with Sony DVDs. For external HDD’s, Seagate is all I trust.[/QUOTE]

I probably should have mentioned “blank DVDs” in that write up. :stuck_out_tongue: It’s not reflective of Verbatim blank BRs, at least I don’t think so if people above agree it’s rather decent.

So an update on these Verbatim 6X BR media. My ASUS is burning them at 6X and it doesn’t seem to be able to go any faster. I’ve backed up about 5 disks worth of data off of the failing hard drive so far. I haven’t done any checks on the burned disks yet. Probably will after I get the more important media backed up first and then post up the screenshots to the Verbatim BD-R SL thread. Unfortunately, I seem to have gotten the poorer? “IMe” disks rather than the “IMa” or “IMc” stuff.

[QUOTE=Acreo_Aeneas;2654859]I probably should have mentioned “blank DVDs” in that write up. :stuck_out_tongue: It’s not reflective of Verbatim blank BRs, at least I don’t think so if people above agree it’s rather decent.

So an update on these Verbatim 6X BR media. My ASUS is burning them at 6X and it doesn’t seem to be able to go any faster. I’ve backed up about 5 disks worth of data off of the failing hard drive so far. I haven’t done any checks on the burned disks yet. Probably will after I get the more important media backed up first and then post up the screenshots to the Verbatim BD-R SL thread. Unfortunately, I seem to have gotten the poorer? “IMe” disks rather than the “IMa” or “IMc” stuff.[/QUOTE]
You are moving that data to another hard drive before burning it? Preferably not a USB 2.0 drive? Blu-ray reads and writes at 4.5 MB/sec at 1x. 6x requires a 27 MB/sec smooth data flow, maxing out a USB 2.0 bus. Don’t burn via USB 2.0 if you have any other option.

It would be preferable to start quality scanning those burns ASAP before you end up discovering that 6x was a little too fast for that batch of discs.

As I mentioned, you should be burning them at rated speed or slower to improve the odds of having good lifespan. 6x is not a bad thing. What software are you burning with? Imgburn will show you the available burn speeds with that drive. It will also create a burn graph to help you diagnose any buffer/burning issues. The disc info tab in OptiDriveControl will also give you that information. Most drive firmwares will burn those Verbs faster than rated speed, if your rig is capable of it.
With Verbatim BD-R, IMa=2x, IMc=4x, IMe=6x. You would need to specifically buy that disc to get that MID. Verbatim’s 4x and 6x BD-R are made in Taiwan by CMC. The 2x are made in Japan and considerably more pricey($4.00+/ea.).

USB 2.0 actually goes up to 35 MB/s per the “High-Speed” spec. I know my particular USB 2.0 hard drive does at least 27 MB/s read. Typically I observe 32+ MB/s read.

I am using ImgBurn and the box said “6x” so I have ImgBurn set to AWS (determines max burn speed). I do have the “verify” option checked in ImgBurn.

I see about the MID now. So each MID determines the speed at which the media burns.

Edit: doing quality test scan now using Opti Drive Control 1.70. God it is going at 0.02 X and is gonna take a long time to finish. I’ll post when I get the chance to later tonight. Is this normal?