'Future AACS version can contain watermark with device serial'


Originally published at: https://www.myce.com/news/future-aacs-version-can-contain-watermark-with-device-serial-84330/

Yesterday we reported about the recently discovered AACS 2 revision that was found on the 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray movies Fury and Patriot and that prevents ripping with all known tools. Today, the developer of MakeMKV has posted additional information about AACS 2.1, as it’s been unofficially referred to. (Unlocking the 4k Ultra HD Blu-ray…


So is this finally the beginning of the end for personal media management?


I really doubt it. Remember, the point of all backup software is to extract the data from the disc in such a manner that it’s a perfect copy. There’s always going to be some way to do that without leaving watermarks and such. Fox tried something similar with BD+. It didn’t work. This won’t work either. My personal guess is that compliant players have to add metadata that can’t be seen, a bit like how Cinavia works for audio, emphasis on “compliant.” :slight_smile:


not sure why we care about a watermark. if you own the media and you back it up and not distribute then what is the issue?


The idea of trackable or identifying information being embedded with or without the knowledge and/or permission of those involved will always be abhorrent to some people. Frankly, I agree to some extent. Even if people are doing nothing wrong.


You make a great point - certainly they should be up front about it in ALL cases with exactly what they are doing and what information is being stored.

Hmm… I wonder if GDPR might cover this in Europe? Watermarks in general that collect PII data and effectively embed it into [something].

could make for an interesting situation for studios if it did…


While I also think the idea is awful, I really don’t see this being an issue for rips. Remember, the data on the disc is static. All you need to do is compare the data from two different rips (assuming the drives have different keys/data in the relevant sections, of course). You can then use various libraries to start to figure out why the data is different, and if it’s something important or if it’s just metadata. If it’s metadata, just remove it, or blank it out. That should do the trick. The only problem I can think of is if there’s a Cinavia-esque feature for video, where rips won’t play on players supporting that feature. That’s obviously not applicable here, though.

In any event, I think people are panicking for no good reason. I’ll be truly shocked if AACS 2.1 can’t be worked around. It might take awhile but there are only so many routes the AACS-LA can go down without killing all the players already out there. There are only so many ways to hide. :slight_smile:


no panick here.

ultimately economics says this is a dying format and 4K plastic shiny discs is the last of the physical media. i doubt studios will do more than the minimum to protect.

the next frontier is upping the quality of streams -necessary since Hd audio is now cheap, 4K tv is cheap, and broadband speeds will continue to increase. the rendering devices will reveal flaws of poor quuality compression more and more and people will notice.

so we need to have folks working on “ripping” those streams we pay for and store locally so we aren’t at the mercy of studios who take stuff away from us on a whim. and that truely is what we have lost here. still pissed i can’t finish various shows i started to watch on netflix because some content deal expired. same for amazon prime. wanted to go back and watch some tv series i loked and lo and behold. it’s gone.


It’s pretty much the same reason I avoid knowingly buying music with watermarks. I’m not one who feels comfortable purchasing content that has been manipulated solely for quasi-DRM/identification purposes (that is, the content itself). In the case of watermarked music some labels selling ‘DRM-free’ still utilize this technique.

So nothing to do with illicit distribution I just don’t support it on principle as a customer. If there end up being workarounds for rips I’m all for it.


I’d be fine paying the Studios an additional (small) fee per disc that lets users make a full un-encrypted backup of my Discs that can be stored and played as I want. If the trade off was that the backup was watermarked to give them some (misguided) comfort in tracking pirates then so be it. I’m actually kind of surprised they don’t do this as it would be another revenue stream for them.


I’d support this.

And they should have no ability to revoke (disable) my backups or control over what format I convert them to or what rendering device I choose to use. On short, once I back it up, it’s free and clear of ever needing to phone home.

Have to believe the number of people who want backups is pretty small given the sizes we are talking about and the fact that most people just don’t care. they will stream. those who steal don’t care enough about quality either and they will just find another way to steal it. it’s not as if they will turn around and decide to buy a legit copy because some loophole was closed. but that strays into the endless debate over DRM and who exactly it’ there to stop :slight_smile:


It’s a nice idea, but why would they do something like that when it wouldn’t stop someone from putting it on the internet. That’s the whole objective in their eyes, stop these movies from being put out on the internet. The only way they see that working is preventing everyone from being able to rip or copy them.


There has not yet been a movie that has not been pirated, and AACS V2.1 will make no difference to them. The pirates for now will just go back to stream capture for these titles. @TheShoe - I tend to agree, the # of people wanting to just backup and play their own titles may be just too small for them to make enough additional revenue to make it worthwhile.


This talk of being able to pay for a backup… we already have “managed copy” with respect to Blu-ray and how much has the industry really made use of it? Honestly, I’ve never actually run across it.


i’ve never seen it used. it is in the spec though

and we need to now what “managed” means :slight_smile: