French study on BD-R for archival

vbimport

#1

For those who read French

“QUALITE DES DISQUES BLU-RAY ENREGISTRABLES POUR L’ARCHIVAGE DES DONNEES NUMERIQUES”
by Jean-Michel LAMBERT and Jacques PERDEREAU

One of the conclusions, do not use LTH BD-R.


Comparison of dye types
#2

Thank you very much for posting this study. :flower:

There seems to be clear agreement with other studies I’ve seen that Panasonic and Sony are the longevity leaders. Verbatim with not even 1/4 the lasting power of those two.

The LTH discs did make a poor showing.

It’s interesting that those overpriced Verbatims did not last as long as Riteks. I’ve always felt that if Verbatim had any cause to brag about their BD-R’s longevity, they would have been doing so. Simply having the name “Verbatim” on them does not give them magical powers ;).


#3

Only the Panasonic lasts until the end of the test. It is unfortunate that the disc is too expensive in France.
I remember Verbatim stated in their press release an archival life of 50 years for the LTH dics!

See attachments for the summary of the aging test




#4

[QUOTE=robione;2656934]Only the Panasonic lasts until the end of the test. It is unfortunate that the disc is too expensive in France.
I remember Verbatim stated in their press release an archival life of 50 years for the LTH dics!

See attachments for the summary of the aging test[/QUOTE]

Do you have availability of the Sony NN3 in France? How expensive are they? It seems most of the shops in Europe that I look at have the Sony/Ritek spindles.
If you do not mind, I’ll post a few pages translated to English for those of us who are not smart enough to handle a real language?:wink:


#5

I find this set of graphs very interesting. It seems to ring true with reported experiences of many people. Although the Verbatim HTL BD-R degrades rather more rapidly and completely at 250 hrs. than the Maxell/Ritek HTL BD-R, the maximum RSSR(error rate) when they are burned initially is much higher on the Ritek than the Verbatim. This would likely lead to a more favorable impression of the playback results with Verbatim BD-R on a wider range of playback equipment.

For those with back-ups on Verbatim HTL, it looks like it may be wise to monitor them carefully. While the rate of decay with the Panasonic and Sonys is somewhat linear and gradual, it appears that when that Verbie starts to go bad you don’t want to be wasting any time transferring that data.

It certainly looks as though folks trying to back up important data to LTH BD-R need to be seriously thinking about reburning that data before too much time passes.



#6

Another page in that study that is worth highlighting is the burn quality results they found with the different burners at different burn speeds.

4x-6x was certainly the winner. Though I am glad to see many burner-media combinations where 8x is still quite good. And this does agree with my own experience that the majority of SL BD-R that I’ve used do not benefit from slowing down to 2x. They sometimes burn worse.

Now I don’t want all the Pioneer fans out there jumping in here with “I told you so”. But the Pio burner did win this contest :flower:. Though the LG was so close at most speeds and better at a few, I don’t think our LG owners need to run out and get a Pio :).

This is worth a look for anyone hung up on a “Plextor” brand allegiance . You know who you are ;):).



#7

thanks for sharing robione.

@ deanwitty
for france you will find sony for example here.
http://www.nierle.com/de/artikelkategorie/60/Blu_Ray_Disc.html

i think the buffalo br-x 816u2 is a LG BH10NS30, right?

and… I TOLD YOU 1000 TIMES BUY A PIONEER BDR205 or BDR206. :bigsmile:



#8

Thanks for the link, memory. I’m afraid that Sony NN3 may be disappearing soon after seeing that your Sony 6x printables are now MBI discs. That will be a shame if they go the way of TDK’s own discs.

Yes, it looks like the Buffalo drive is definitely a BH10NS30.

I was not sure if it would be you or chef who would celebrate victory here first :bigsmile:


#9

Thanks for giving us in the forum the information. I do trust this study much more than peoples own experience with archival or BD-R. Same thing with another study that was made on DVD-R and DVD+R discs showed a different scenario as well as this study does.

It would seem that (as I knew) that the only good brands are the falcons and panasonic BluRay discs. And falcon bought everything from TDK and had that shipped to UAE (i think so). Thats why the quality is so good on falcons as it’s the old TKD line. More or less.

The big surprise for me was that the panasonics are not that expensive compared to sony, verbatim etc, that in this study has fare worse quality. On the other hand as I shifted to harddrive storage instead of BD-R I can’t say that I have burned that many discs.

The best thing for blu-ray would have been a alternative for archiving on LP size BD-R discs. As this would have (not increased storage) but made it possible to add lots more recovery data and all that. Plus better quality. But thats just my thought on storage problems. Like the old laser discs.

If we are going to get 2K and 4K HDTV, plus make old DVDs BluRays etc a manageable storage option (or be able to move it over to new tech) we need to move over to HVD technology, todays BD-R don’t hold enough data.

Another drawback is the stupid blu-ray people who didn’t include the old DVD standard onto Blu-Ray, if they had done that, a lot of old DVDs could have just been move over to Blu-Ray (so you could have 5-7 dvd movies on on blu-ray) and being able to playback each movie in a virtual dvd, in the blu-ray player). Would save a lot of space, but that didn’t happen.

Sorry got a little OT.

Anyway, for people in europe having problems getting media, I find this site to be good. They don’t have all the brands but do ship to lots of places.

http://www.totalblankmedia.com/

:slight_smile:


#10

… and then You show this study to a man who mostly uses LTH discs like me :slight_smile:

Anyway, my oldest burns are 2.5 years old, can’t scan them, but TRT’s are still perfect. I am talking about Maxell (Ritek), Verbatim (LTH and HTL), and some CMC and Philips MID discs.


#11

How can you recognize if a disk is LTH or HTL?


#12

[QUOTE=zivija;2658773]… and then You show this study to a man who mostly uses LTH discs like me :slight_smile:

Anyway, my oldest burns are 2.5 years old, can’t scan them, but TRT’s are still perfect. I am talking about Maxell (Ritek), Verbatim (LTH and HTL), and some CMC and Philips MID discs.[/QUOTE]I would welcome seeing your TRTs of the various MIDs in the Aging and older BD-R thread as time passes. Glad to hear you’ve been lucky with good batches of BD-Rs :flower:

[QUOTE=infini;2659281]How can you recognize if a disk is LTH or HTL?[/QUOTE]
“LTH” is normally seen on the label of LTH BD-Rs. Online sellers are usually good about mentioning it in their product description, as well. A listing of HTL and LTH media can be found here. You can post a question in the blank media forum if you have a worry about a particular disc.


#13

I was brought here from another thread.
I wonder if Taiyo Yuden LTH would fair any better than other brands LTH in this sort of test?


#14

[QUOTE=kirby7777;2663605]I was brought here from another thread.
I wonder if Taiyo Yuden LTH would fair any better than other brands LTH in this sort of test?[/QUOTE]

Taiyo Yuden sells their media under the JVC brand name now. I’m afraid that those JVCs are Taiyo Yuden LTH


#15

Dammed! I just bought a couple of spindle of Taiyo Yuden 25Gb and 50Gb LTH…

So it would seem that Panasonic is currently best BD media for archiving?


#16

Nothing is more depressing to me than seeing these manufacturers put out CRAP and expecting us to buy into their hype. Which so many do. So they keep putting out crap and lying about its quality - or rather than “lying”, they can “refuse to divulge” correct details.

Then they’ll claim, “But we’re not lying - we have no obligation to state all facts.” Yeah. So true - that makes it A-OK. I wish we could send them money with the same TRUTH VALUE! (Wouldn’t that be great… “100 dollars deposited…” then a day later, “Sorry - that $100 disappeared - poof! Kind of LTH type of dollar quality!”)

These issues are the only reason I’ll support Streaming instead of having Physical media - just to punish the idiotic, lying, shortsighted suppliers.

But go ahead - ask me how I [I]REALLY[/I] feel…


#17

[QUOTE=kirby7777;2663658]Dammed! I just bought a couple of spindle of Taiyo Yuden 25Gb and 50Gb LTH…

So it would seem that Panasonic is currently best BD media for archiving?[/QUOTE]
The TY 25GB would be the JVC discs in that test. You would be wise to do a transfer rate test on any of those burns when they are burned. Then check up on them every 6 months or so with a TRT. If you see any drops in read speed, its time to reburn. They may well last a few years if you are lucky to have a burner that handles them well.

Which TY 50GB DL’s did you get? They are not LTH. If they are the “That’s” TYs, they have been a pretty good burning disc so far. You could certainly do worse.

Yes, there is a growing body of evidence that Panasonics are one of or the best choice for archival. My own oldest burns on them are holding up as well as the longevity testing would indicate.

[QUOTE=ChristineBCW;2663662]
Then they’ll claim, “But we’re not lying - we have no obligation to state all facts.” Yeah. So true - that makes it A-OK. I wish we could send them money with the same TRUTH VALUE! (Wouldn’t that be great… “100 dollars deposited…” then a day later, “Sorry - that $100 disappeared - poof! Kind of LTH type of dollar quality!”)

These issues are the only reason I’ll support Streaming instead of having Physical media - just to punish the idiotic, lying, shortsighted suppliers.

But go ahead - ask me how I [I]REALLY[/I] feel…[/QUOTE]
Don’t worry Christine, we are all a little shy about our feelings in a new forum. I’m sure you’ll find yourself opening up and sharing your TRUE feelings around here in no time ;):bigsmile:

Wonderful analogy there. Too many times we end up in that LTH scenario with media. This is exactly why some of us are driven to communicate directly with manufacturers and keep asking and testing and pushing till the curtain pulls back and we get a good look at who’s pushing those buttons and pulling those levers ;).


#18

[QUOTE=deanwitty;2663751]The TY 25GB would be the JVC discs in that test. You would be wise to do a transfer rate test on any of those burns when they are burned. Then check up on them every 6 months or so with a TRT. If you see any drops in read speed, its time to reburn. They may well last a few years if you are lucky to have a burner that handles them well.

Which TY 50GB DL’s did you get? They are not LTH. If they are the “That’s” TYs, they have been a pretty good burning disc so far. You could certainly do worse.

Yes, there is a growing body of evidence that Panasonics are one of or the best choice for archival. My own oldest burns on them are holding up as well as the longevity testing would indicate.
[/QUOTE]

I am really really worrying now. :Z:a
I bought all my BD-R 25Gb and 50Gb from eBay. Previously I have been using brands like TDK and Sony and then later Verbatim. In the past year I discovered Taiyo Yuden (That’s). Based on their reputation with DVD, and also the cheaper prices, I started to use them extensively.

The 25Gb ones are something like these and they are LTH no doubt: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/220852963845?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com.au%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_sacat%3D0%26_from%3DR40%26_nkw%3D220852963845%26_rdc%3D1

The 50Gb one are these :http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/25-Taiyo-Yuden-Blu-ray-dvd-50GB-BD-R-DL-No-Logo-Fully-Printable-Blueray-4X-Speed-/140789764433?pt=US_CD_DVD_Blu_ray_Discs&hash=item20c7b95151
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/130723697060?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com.au%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_sacat%3D0%26_from%3DR40%26_nkw%3D130723697060%26_rdc%3D1

So are the 50Gb ones LTH as well?

Also, I am new to all these. How do you do a Transfer rate test? :confused:

Thanks.


#19

[QUOTE=kirby7777;2663776]I am really really worrying now. :Z:a
I bought all my BD-R 25Gb and 50Gb from eBay. Previously I have been using brands like TDK and Sony and then later Verbatim. In the past year I discovered Taiyo Yuden (That’s). Based on their reputation with DVD, and also the cheaper prices, I started to use them extensively.

The 25Gb ones are something like these and they are LTH no doubt: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/220852963845?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com.au%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_sacat%3D0%26_from%3DR40%26_nkw%3D220852963845%26_rdc%3D1

The 50Gb one are these :http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/25-Taiyo-Yuden-Blu-ray-dvd-50GB-BD-R-DL-No-Logo-Fully-Printable-Blueray-4X-Speed-/140789764433?pt=US_CD_DVD_Blu_ray_Discs&hash=item20c7b95151
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/130723697060?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com.au%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_sacat%3D0%26_from%3DR40%26_nkw%3D130723697060%26_rdc%3D1

So are the 50Gb ones LTH as well?

Also, I am new to all these. How do you do a Transfer rate test? :confused:

Thanks.[/QUOTE]
It is easy to understand why you might think that TY also makes one of the best BD-R. Their DVD-R are one of the best.

TY/That’s has chosen to sell a TDK 50GB BD-R DL under their brand name and they are looking like a good quality disc so far. Not to worry about LTH and BD-R DL 50GB. There are no LTH BD-R DL media being made.

We are getting a bit off-topic here :). Don’t hesitate to post more/new questions in the main Blank media or Blu-ray burners forums, or use the “search this forum” tool for info. Transfer rate tests are performed with a utility like Opti Drive Control.


#20

Good thing I always burned on these Panasonic discs. Also did some tests in the office a few years ago. Baked some Blu-ray’s and tried too read them, used them for a while as trivet. Panasonic did a great job for me where others didn’t.

These experiments where fun. I have to repeat them again to see if there are some changes in the new media.