Fake media

vbimport

#1

Hi guys,

This might sound as a newbie question but can somebody explain this to me.

I have previously looked at the MIDs etc when buying my media but I cannot understand why some people say that their disks are FAKE.

How do you spot the fake ones?
Hub ids? Stamper codes? poor burning surface?

Let’s take a MCC media as an example. How would I know that my MCC004’s were fake? (MID is just an example).

Any help is much appriciated!
Regards


#2

Fake media is usually found by comparing the hub and stamper codes. :slight_smile:


#3

…another dumb question :slight_smile: how do I do that?
I mean - should they be almost identical? I can’t find anything by googling it :frowning:


#4

Welcome to the forum :slight_smile:

Take a known genuine MCC disc, and note the stamper/hub codes. Take your suspected fake disc, and note those. Compare the two. :slight_smile:

If you search around here (or perhaps some kind soul will post some in this thread, I can’t recall them offhand), you can find known codes for MBIL/Prodisc/CMC-made MCC coded discs for comparison/future reference. :slight_smile:


#5

Right :slight_smile:

I’ve just digged out a post about Verbatim (this is what these disk should be) media and its stamper code.
It should start with Z and then some digits, letters, and a DVD somewhere inbetween.

My stamper codes are DMR H28-17 I51031M07
Can’t get to my Verbatims as they are at home, will do that in the evening…
but… how can I be sure thate my supposedly legitimate Verbs are Verbs :wink:


#6

[QUOTE=qbazdz;2520451]Right :slight_smile:

I’ve just digged out a post about Verbatim (this is what these disk should be) media and its stamper code.
It should start with Z and then some digits, letters, and a DVD somewhere inbetween.

My stamper codes are DMR H28-17 I51031M07
Can’t get to my Verbatims as they are at home, will do that in the evening…
but… how can I be sure thate my supposedly legitimate Verbs are Verbs ;)[/QUOTE]

Tell you what. When you get home to your Verbies, double check the codes (should be two sets if my ones here are anything to go by), and post them here. Someone will tell you straight off. :slight_smile:

Just for reference, the codes on these (manufactured by Moser Baer India Limited) Verbie MCC004s I have in front of me are:

7042 523 +R E E 2610
and
ZD8146-DVR-T47D


#7

Ok… All my Verbs have a stamper code starting with ZD… even various batches, with different prints on them…

Now… let me explain the thing here…
I have lots of blank dvds with a custom print on one side (they are for my company) that Ive purchased. Now… first of all they look rubbish from underneath… you can see something like a ripple pattern made on watter, when you trow a stone - darker, lighter shades of dye, concentric with the disks, slightly different to how it looks after burning.

They are suppose to be Verbatims and MID given by DVD Info is MCC 03RG20.

Full report below:


Media Information                            
Region information                                    N/A not a DVD-VIDEO
Media code/Manufacturer ID                                     MCC 03RG20
Format Capacity                                                Blank Disc
Free Blocks                                                     411107328
Free Capacity                                               4.38GB/4.71GB
Book Type                                                           DVD-R
Media Type                                                          DVD-R
[B]Manufacturer Rated Speed                                  16.0x 22160KBps[/B]
Available Write Descriptor                           CLV  8.0x  11080KBps
Available Write Descriptor                           CLV  6.0x   8310KBps
Available Write Descriptor                           CLV  4.0x   5540KBps
Available Write Descriptor                           CLV  2.0x   2770KBps
[B]Write Strategy Speed                                        4.0x 5540KBps[/B]
2x Speed OPC beta                                                      09
2x Speed OPC power                                                     0B
2x Write Strategy field 1                                     14 87 78 90
2x Write Strategy field 2                               88 80 00 00 00 00
4x Speed OPC beta                                                      08
4x Speed OPC power                                                     13
4x Write Strategy field 1                                     0D 11 0C 08
4x Write Strategy field 2                                     00 00 00 00
4x Write Strategy field 3                                     00 00 00 00
4x Speed OPC beta multi-pulse                                          00
4x Speed OPC power multi-pulse                                         00
4x Write Strategy field 4                                     00 00 00 00
4x Write Strategy field 5                               00 00 00 00 00 00
4x Write Strategy field 6                                  00 00 00 00 00
Data area starting sector                                          30000h
Linear Density                                                0.267um/bit
Track Density                                                0.74um/track
Number of Layers                                                        1
                                                                         
                           Complete Media Code                           
00000000 00 6C 00 00 01 40 C1 FD 9E D8 52 00 02 85 0D 0E .l...@....R.....
00000010 88 9A 80 00 03 4D 43 43 20 30 33 00 04 52 47 32 .....MCC 03..RG2
00000020 30 20 20 00 05 88 80 00 00 00 02 00 06 09 0B 14 0  .............

The problem is that on some drives they are not even recognized. Some older drives are able to read them, but ie. none of new Apple i7’s Ive got available can detect them.

In the code above I highlighted what I think is making me concern most (apart from the stamper code) and make me think that they might be fakes…

Reader that have just detected this one is Pioneer DVR K17 Slim with firmware 1.05.


#8

Unfortunately, disc info reports don’t really tell us much apart from the mediacode on the disc, which of course can be faked. :slight_smile:

Apart from the ZD… code, is there another code present? You may have to squint real hard and/or hold the disc up to the light just right to see it.

As for the pattern in the dye itself, I’ve seen that myself on genuine discs of any brand - it’s like a wavy “moiré” pattern :iagree:


#9

Thanks for all the info Arachne…
I almost thought we figured out if they were faked or not…
I am quite surprised that the moire pattern is not unusual. I personally have never came across something like this before…

The disks in question have also a hub id like this:
14 H-16 1 2 1 0912110653-15

And that’s it. No more codes etc.apart from the stamper ID mentioned in a previous post.


#10

Hmmm, I can’t place that other code, perhaps someone else knows. Mind you, that said - I haven’t come across any of the new Made in UAE (by Falcon) discs yet, so have no clue what the codes on those may look like. :wink:


#11

[QUOTE=qbazdz;2520525]Thanks for all the info Arachne…
I almost thought we figured out if they were faked or not…
I am quite surprised that the moire pattern is not unusual. I personally have never came across something like this before…

The disks in question have also a hub id like this:
14 H-16 1 2 1 0912110653-15

And that’s it. No more codes etc.apart from the stamper ID mentioned in a previous post.[/QUOTE]

Hello qbazdz,
your media are definitely fakes - most likely made by ISMM Macau (according to the serial numbers).


#12

pepst!
Could you explain this to me in more detail?
or really give me an idea how can I do it in the future so I won’t need to trouble you guys :slight_smile:

THANKS!


#13

@Pepst - nice job :smiley:

@qbazdz - you’re not bothering anyone. This forum would be pretty quiet if no-one posted. :flower:


#14

[QUOTE=qbazdz;2520534]pepst!
Could you explain this to me in more detail?
or really give me an idea how can I do it in the future so I won’t need to trouble you guys :slight_smile:

THANKS![/QUOTE]

I will post some examples of the stamper codes and serial numbers of the legit MCC media tomorrow.


#15

This is interesting… the discs have a “Zxnnnn” stamper code on them and yet they’re fake? I myself haven’t seen legit stamper codes paired with fake hub codes so this is quite different from what I usually see…


#16

[QUOTE=evo69;2520594]This is interesting… the discs have a “Zxnnnn” stamper code on them and yet they’re fake? I myself haven’t seen legit stamper codes paired with fake hub codes so this is quite different from what I usually see…[/QUOTE]

His discs have a “DMR H28-17 I51031M07” stamper code - see the post #5.

Here are the promised examples of legit stamper & hub codes:

stamper codes:
ZD3148-DVR-J47C1
ZE0599-DVR-J47C1
ZC9667-DVR-X47B

hub codes:
PX8ZS2E3427610 (Made in Singapore)
4293 506 +R C E 06910 (OEM - Moser Baer India)
PAHA25IF17102353 3 (OEM - CMC Magnetics Taiwan)
6051F3414-01550C08 (OEM - Prodisc Taiwan
B1FH A01A J906040623 A31 (OEM - Falcon Technologies UAE)

I “stole” these examples from EZ647’s media database. :flower:


#17

Pepst you are amazing :bow:

I’ve checked the company that you suggested makes them, found their website, read on and found out that they have the ISO9001 certificate as well as UKAS quality management… so why are those disk bad quality or really fake?
Is it simply that Verbatim would not appoint them to do these?

how would you now that ISMM made them?
I didn’t find anything on EZ647’s website (great link though!) apart from this:
http://ez647.sk/noname.html (2nd media)
That would match it perfectly - blank on one side, makes it easy to be printed on… MID matches, hub id is alike, so is stamper id…


#18

[QUOTE=qbazdz;2520607]Pepst you are amazing :bow:

I’ve checked the company that you suggested makes them, found their website, read on and found out that they have the ISO9001 certificate as well as UKAS quality management… so why are those disk bad quality or really fake?
Is it simply that Verbatim would not appoint them to do these?[/QUOTE]
Mitsubishi Chemicals Company presently has only three OEM partners - CMC Magnetics, Moser Baer India & Falcon Technologies. MCC supply them with their AZO dye, stampers, polycarbonate and process know-how (machinery settings data, etc.) and buy the finished product back.
Other companies (like ISMM, Infosmart, Pop Media International, etc.) are using MCC’s MID codes mainly because of compatibility reasons - MCC’ MIDs are MUCH better supported by DVD burners. But their media are made with completely different raw materials and machinery and they are not licensed by MCC.
Unfortunately, MID faking might be unethical, but it’s not and never will be illegal (MID codes cannot be protected under the copyright laws).

how would you now that ISMM made them?

The serial numbering style is very similar to the serial numbers of the media with ISMM’s own MID codes.


#19

[QUOTE=pepst;2520609]
The serial numbering style is very similar to the serial numbers of the media with ISMM’s own MID codes.[/QUOTE]

I didn’t find any data on that. Could you possibly provide me with some source of this info please?


#20

[QUOTE=qbazdz;2520612]I didn’t find any data on that. Could you possibly provide me with some source of this info please?[/QUOTE]
Sorry, I do not have any ISSM made DVDs any longer (or picture of them).