Failed burn attempts with Verbatim DVD+R DL 8x

vbimport

#1

Good evening everyone. I have a strange problem and I was hoping any of you guys might have had experience with it:

I was trying to burn some images using ImgBurn and Verbatim DVD+R DL 8x media with an Optiarc AD-7170A DVD burner (firmware version 1.04). The burning speed is 2.4x.

Eight out eleven discs came out perfect, while a strange thing happened with the remaining three: write errors popped up at the midst of the writing process, and the software informed me of a write failure. After ejecting the disc, I noticed several white “spots” over the failed disc; ones which were not visible prior to the writing process, when the media was still blank.

After wiping the disc with a wet cloth, the white spot disappeared, and a dark one appeared underneath (could this be the result of melted dust?).

Does any of you guys have experience with (or knowledge about) this matter?

Any help would be greatly appreciated! :slight_smile:


#2

Use another burner or try burning again with new backups/images.


#3

Dark spots are most likely spots were the laser did not burn. So it’s a unburned area. The white spots could be related to dust or problems with the polycarbonate.


#4

Thank you all for your input. I will purchase another burner and see whether the situation improves.

Thank you all again!


#5

[QUOTE=miha;2151715]After wiping the disc with a wet cloth, the white spot disappeared, and a dark one appeared underneath (could this be the result of melted dust?).[/quote]This is the description of the infamous “specks of dust” issue. This is a common problem.

When discs have significant specks of dust on the recording side during the writing process, the burning laser gets diffracted and as Dakhaas mentions, there is an unburnt spot underneath, the size and severity of which depending on several factors.

Depending on the size of the specks, the type of disc (DL being more sensitive…), the burner, this can lead to entirely unsignificant, or to very annoying, writing/reading issues. With all the in-between cases.

Finding a proper, secure way to dust discs before writing is often overlooked, but it’s the only solution when discs are dusty right out of the pack. Of course, it’s sometimes also the user’s fault, if the packs are just left open, the discs laying on some surface etc… a disc should be taken out of its package only just right before the burn. :wink:


#6

[QUOTE=Francksoy;2154573]This is the description of the infamous “specks of dust” issue. This is a common problem.

When discs have significant specks of dust on the recording side during the writing process, the burning laser gets diffracted and as Dakhaas mentions, there is an unburnt spot underneath, the size and severity of which depending on several factors.

Depending on the size of the specks, the type of disc (DL being more sensitive…), the burner, this can lead to entirely unsignificant, or to very annoying, writing/reading issues. With all the in-between cases.

Finding a proper, secure way to dust discs before writing is often overlooked, but it’s the only solution when discs are dusty right out of the pack. Of course, it’s sometimes also the user’s fault, if the packs are just left open, the discs laying on some surface etc… a disc should be taken out of its package only just right before the burn. ;)[/QUOTE]

Hi!

Thank you for your elaborative comment. I, indeed, assumed it to be a problem related to dust. However, I only take discs out of their pack right before the burning process; they go right into the burner with no further delay. This never happened to me with single layer DVD discs nor with CDs. DL being more sensitive must explain the reason for this taking place. This problem is very frustrating, a real bummer…


#7

[QUOTE=miha;2157544]This problem is very frustrating, a real bummer…[/QUOTE]Canned air. That’s your best bet for a way out, I guess. Don’t spray too close to the surface, though, or it can introduce its own problems (long story short).


#8

Take a minute to think about how your computer case is built & set up, AND where it is. Do your case fans blow in, or out? Are they filtered? How long since you dusted the INside of the case? How many layers of dust are on the floor/desk/stand around your case? Do you ever vacuum your burner’s tray?

If you’re pulling dusty air in, you’re likely to pull dust into the burner WHILE it’s burning. So no matter how clean the disk was when you put it in, it’s getting dirtier by the second.

If the case is full of dust & your fans are pushing that dust OUT thru your burner…

My cases are ~8" above the carpet (with nothing below so the vacuum cleaner goes under) on shelves that are BARELY big enough to hold them (so the shelf holds no extra dust). My fans are filtered & blowing IN (except the power supply), and all the case vents are taped shut (YES, everything has been blocked off for ~4 years). So the only air coming IN gets in thru the filters, and the only air leaking out is clean going thru the drives & cards.

This not only keeps the mobo & heat sinks clean; it also keeps the insides of the drives clean. I got the idea from Soviet tanks; they use an “overpressure filtration” system to protect against chemical/biological attacks.


#9

[QUOTE=Steve83;2158007]If you’re pulling dusty air in, you’re likely to pull dust into the burner WHILE it’s burning. So no matter how clean the disk was when you put it in, it’s getting dirtier by the second.[/quote]That’s pure theory, and also refers to a type of dust that doesn’t impact burning quality.

In actual use, and based on the experience of countless burns, I can assure you without any trace of hesitation, that proper dusting of the the blanks before burning them supresses the issue of unburnt spots.

That’s due to the fact that only relatively big specks of dust (> ~ 0.5mm²) will impact the quality of the burn. Smaller particles won’t diffract the laser enough to cause trouble.

Besides, the particles have to be kinda sticking to the surface to cause trouble, as the fast rotation of the disc in the drive will automatically wipe out all loose particles. And, coincidentally, will prevent any new dust deposing onto the surface during the burning process… :wink:


#10

Hello everyone,

Thanks for your comments. I dust inside the case regularly. The computer is placed on a table, at a relatively clean place.

However, I have good news. I bought a new burner, the PIONEER DVR-216DBK. Burned serveral discs already with no further problems. I’ll see how it goes. Hopefully this problem belongs to the past.

Thank you very much everyone!


#11

Good choice. Now burn, baby, burn!


#12

Hi!

“Burn, baby, burn!” indeed :). After numerous burns with this new burner I can confirm with a high degree of confidence that this problem has faded into oblivion. Thank you all again for your elaborative comments!


#13

[QUOTE=dakhaas;2153176]Dark spots are most likely spots were the laser did not burn. So it’s a unburned area.[/QUOTE]I burned a disc recently and saw a dark spot, so I’ve been wondering about this. Does the burner detect that it wasn’t able to burn in that area, and try to burn the data again in a different area? Or does that data just never make it onto the disc?

And wouldn’t a TRT fail on the dark spot? At least that’s what I think it should do, in my non-expert opinion, but then I did a TRT on the disc and it was perfect.


#14

[QUOTE=Wizzu;2157576]Canned air. That’s your best bet for a way out, I guess. Don’t spray too close to the surface, though, or it can introduce its own problems (long story short).[/QUOTE]

The main problem with canned air is two-fold:

  1. Short cans.

  2. Tilted cans.

Only buy air in tall cans, not the short, compact ones, and do not tilt the can. In both cases the air can come out liquified and will damage the disc.


#15

[QUOTE=sl_dvd;2220434]I burned a disc recently and saw a dark spot, so I’ve been wondering about this. Does the burner detect that it wasn’t able to burn in that area, and try to burn the data again in a different area? Or does that data just never make it onto the disc?

And wouldn’t a TRT fail on the dark spot? At least that’s what I think it should do, in my non-expert opinion, but then I did a TRT on the disc and it was perfect.[/QUOTE]“Data” on a DVD is spread along quite a wide area, I mean wider than most people think. An unburnt spot will most of the time end in missing low-level information, but rarely missing data. There is a lot of redundant low-level information (error correction systems), which were put there in the first place to avoid data loss in such cases… :wink: - both can be called “data” BTW, but what we’re talking about here is user data.

The fact that an unburnt spot (or some other small defect) will often not show in a TRT, is one of the reasons why many users prefer PIE/PIF scans to TRTs because while TRTs give excellent information about a burnt disc’s basic quality and data’s retrievability, it doesn’t tell much about consistency between discs and batches unless the differences are huge, or about a disc’s condition.

If you ask me, both tests can be equally useful if you have the time.

Also, finding a good dusting routine to clear the big, sticky specks, is a good idea.


#16

[QUOTE=Wizzu;2220546]An unburnt spot most will end in missing low-level information, but rarely missing data.[/QUOTE]A far-fetched-but-not-too-bad analogy could be: if you take a big letter, an A for example, and you wipe off just a small part of it, most of the time anyone will still recognize an “A”. You’d have to wipe off more to make the letter unrecognizable. :slight_smile:


#17

[QUOTE=sl_dvd;2220434]I burned a disc recently and saw a dark spot, so I’ve been wondering about this. Does the burner detect that it wasn’t able to burn in that area, and try to burn the data again in a different area? Or does that data just never make it onto the disc?

And wouldn’t a TRT fail on the dark spot? At least that’s what I think it should do, in my non-expert opinion, but then I did a TRT on the disc and it was perfect.[/QUOTE]It depends. No, the data is not burned again in a different area, but the DVD specification includes interleaving and an inner data structure with an error correction margin, which takes into account nominal flaws in the burn (there is no such thing as a “perfect” DVD - all discs will have a certain amount of Parity Inner Errors and Parity Inner Failures, which are all provided for in the specifications). So, depending on the size of the defect it may be possible to “burn over” the defect and the disc still be readable, but obviously that’s not good for something you’ll want to keep for a long time.

Many of us here would use Nero DiscSpeed or similar to perform a “Quality Scan” both immediately after burning and over the years from time to time, to check the current condition of burned media. The resulting graph gives you a good idea of how much the error correction margin has been used and thusly how close a disc is to having read issues or lost data.


#18

[OT]

[QUOTE=SeanW;2220550]all discs will have a certain amount of Parity Inner Errors and Parity Inner Failures, which are all provided for in the specifications[/QUOTE]Since you’re getting technical, may I interfere? :slight_smile:

PIE and PIF are reading errors. They can be caused by very different causes on a disc, and are always a unique result of a given disc / reader / reading speed combination. Different reader, different errors.

While it can be arguable (though kinda far-fetched) that discs “have” partity inner errors, it cannot be argued that they “have” parity inner failures, since these failures happen at the reading stage and are not a property of the disc per se. :wink:

[/OT]


#19

Thank you for the replies.

[QUOTE=Wizzu;2220548]A far-fetched-but-not-too-bad analogy could be: if you take a big letter, an A for example, and you wipe off just a small part of it, most of the time anyone will still recognize an “A”. You’d have to wipe off more to make the letter unrecognizable. :)[/QUOTE]
You could still recognize it is an “A”, but perhaps you couldn’t tell what font it is anymore? :wink:

Would I be able to tell if there is missing data by the TRT? If the TRT passes, then there’s no missing data, and if it fails, then there is missing data (or the drive cannot handle all the errors)?

Of course I understand that if the data is there, it could still be difficult to read in some readers. That’s where the Disc Quality scan comes in.


#20

[QUOTE=sl_dvd;2220788]You could still recognize it is an “A”, but perhaps you couldn’t tell what font it is anymore? ;)[/quote]In my example, only the letter was considered as “data”, the font wasn’t. But you’re entitled to fetch the example even further than I did… :bigsmile:

Would I be able to tell if there is missing data by the TRT? If the TRT passes, then there’s no missing data, and if it fails, then there is missing data (or the drive cannot handle all the errors)?
Yes, yes, yes, yes. :iagree:
Gee, I love fast learners. :cool: