Experts: need dvd burner suggestion

i need to buy new dvd burner. it seems u cant choose both a good burner and a ripper/scanner, have to choose 1 or the other. so ill appreciate if the long time users here [the experts id assume] can help me with some suggestions.

so heres my plan:
benq 1620 [btw. the 1620 can read C1/C2, PI/PO and jitter right?] for ripping & scanning cd/dvd and burning dvd+r, and nec 3540 for burning dvd-r, though the 3540’s r better @ ripping/scanning than the 3500/3520 and also has limited scanning, but i still doubt its a better reader than the 1620.

[recently i had some very bad burns with ritek r04 dvd+r, @ any speed between 8x-16x, and a 3500. yet the same drive burned some 50 ritek g05 dvd-r @ 8x very nicely. i barely have 110-115 burns with this burner, so its definitely not the burner. most of the r04 have very high pi/pif, scanned using a sony ddu-1612 dvd-rom, hence my need for a good ripper/scanner! discs that i burned bout 6 months ago, thats when i got the ritek dvd+r, and were fine when verified after the burn but cant be read/files copied from the disc now even when scanning/reading on the sony, which is atleast several magnitude better @ reading than the 3500 even tho its just a dvd-rom.]

now keep in mind that these r probably not gonna be the final dvd burners b4 moving to hd/bd-dvd. ill prob buy the all-burns-16x burners as a final purchase for compatibility with cd & dvd discs while waiting for affordable hd/bd-dvd.

i was also thinking of maybe the px-712sa [sata version,] instead of the nec simply coz i only have 1 more ide but 4 sata left, and if i got a sata burner i could use both the burners for either ripping or burning at the same time [2 hdd connected to 2 diff ide conn,] but if i get 2 ide burners then ill have to connect both of them with a single cable and to the same ide conn. and will have to use 1 drive @ a time reducing the benefit of having 2 burners. but for the price of just 1 712sa i can get both the 1620 + 3540. plus im not really sure about the 712’s burning capabilities compared to the benq and the nec, though its a good reader. or should i consider a 716 [$125!] instead of a 712?

and also should i wait for the 1640 [or get the rebadged px-740 but not sure bout it] or forgo the waiting and get the 1620 now, as i need a burner and a ripper but the 1640 isnt gonna be out for a while, and then theres the price as the 740 is almost 90.

thnx for ur time, and for any suggestions.

oh yeah 2 more questions, what should be the ripping + burning speed to backup pressed dvds/movies? and the same question about music cds. and im guessing here that to scan both cd/dvds for pi/pif is 8x! again thanks.

L’Arc-en-Ciel, welcome to cdfreaks :slight_smile:

Personally I would wait for the 1640. Out of the box it’s the best/fastest reader I’ve ever had - even perfect DVD +R DL reads at 12x.

If you can’t wait then the 1620 is an excellent drive also, but not quite as good a reader :wink:

If you’re looking for a dedicated DVD-R burner (although I’m sure a BenQ would do a fine job), the best choice would probably be an LG. I believe NEC favors the +R as well.

BenQ is your best choice if you want only one drive for burning, scanning, and ripping. The next option would be the Liteon 1693S. From the scans I have seen and the limited use I have, it looks as good as the BenQ 1620 and has none of the defective chip problems that have plagued BenQ. It is a better scanner, as good a ripper, and handles bitsetting.

Ripping a full DL disc takes 8-12 minutes depending on read speed. Good ripping drives with speed hack will read around 12X-14X on average, but rarely do this as most need to slow down to deal with bad sectors.

codeking, thanx for the welcome. so i gather the 1640 would be 1 of the best readers, gr8. and from ur and chas0039’s comments id guess ripping at higher speeds wont really affect the quality of the ripped movie [music?] [and the following burn/backup?] as long as the reader is of very good quality!

tehgrue, from all the 55 or so dvd+r that i burned and the fact that i havent seen a single good burn and more than half of those were coasters [well could just be the batch of the media i got was bad quality,] and the 50 dvd-r that i burnt and only 2 were coasters [but some of the scans arnt good,] plus the necdump of the 3500’s firmwares showing support for more dvd-r media than dvd+r, i kinda put 2 n 2 together and thought that nec’s were better @ dvd-r. but then again thats y im not really the expert here i guess :stuck_out_tongue: and as for the lg, well id rather burn dvd+r [as long as its good quality and the disc wont fail on a simple read test 2 days after it was burnt, and thats on the sony dvd-rom, even tho verification read on the 3500 after the burn was ok!]

chas0039, well i kinda was thinking of getting 2 burners, 1 for burning and 1 for ripping and scanning as that would increase the longevity of the burners. and as from ur comment [plus i went through the articles/reviews on the 1693s and the 1620a/1640a and that seems to be the case] its a better scanner and atleast as good a ripper, so i could make this the dedicated ripper and scanner.

so its come to this:

benq dw-1620a/1640a = 3 votes of confidence [lets hope we dont have to wait too long for the 1640, or that itll cost an arm/a leg like the plextors, or the 3500 that i bought!]

lg [gsa-4163bk?] = 1 vote [that is if i require a dedicated and good dvd-r burner]

liteon show-1693s = 1 vote [and i think ill make this my dedicated ripper+scanner, unless offcourse 1 of u have any reason as to why i shouldnt!]

nec 3540 = 0 vote [man do i feel like puking for wasting that 85 on that piece of c%@$ 3500 + another 110/115 discs and not to mention all those files and hours that ive lost! heck u wont believe this but this thing couldnt even burn a decent cd-r @ 24x. where as the liteon 52327s cd burner did more than a hundred @ 52x and without any audible distortions, i might have to keep this thing around for much longer]

plextor 712sa/716sa = 0 vote [i guess they cant do anything that the benq already can, well plus theyre really really expensive]

so i guess that sums up the whole thing. since u already answered the dvd movie ripping/backup quesion, so now only like 3 questions i need cleared up:

and please remember im looking for quality ripping/burning/backup so time is of no concern to me

#1] so is cd ripping also not affected @ any speed, or do i need to rip @ a particular/slow speed?

#2] how about burning/backingup the ripped movies or music-cds, does that also need to be slow/@ a particular speed to burn with minimal distortions/error and longevity, or is the fastest okay?

#3] funaly, does any 1 have any idea about the beall dvd-r [BeAll G16001] and the dvd+r [BeAll000 PG0], like if theyre good media [they seem to be similar in price to riteks, but ive had it with riteks] especially if theyre generally good dye’s? or if theyre good/bad with benq/liteon/nec burners?

thank u all for taking the time to inform/reply to a n00b like me, and i very much appreciate it.

btw. i found this http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=135828 and im going through it, nice 1 codeking.

You don’t need to open the new thread for this subject, please read the following thread:

http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=141452

#1. The drive will slow down as soon as it detects any error in the reading. So you are correct that you do not get “better” reads at slower speeds. It either reads or it slows down.

#2. Burning DVDs at the rated speed is the best place to burn most discs. Burning at faster speeds almost always introduces more errors and with some discs the errors cause read problems. CDs are different and most generally burn best at speeds around 16X-24X. Slower is not always better and with some discs and burners, faster is not always worse. You need to test your burner/disc combination. BTW, the 1693 is not considered a good CD burner.

I think that has changed with the latest firmware KS09 ;):
http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?p=1036621#post1036621

Thanks for the update. My comments came from the reviews and tests on the KS04. Nice to know they pay attention at Liteon.

Yes you need two drives!

109/3540/716 are very fast readers
3540/3500/716 are fast burners

I would get a 3540 and a 1693 to do scans with. I have one drive that will do a scan in my sig block(1616) but wish I had a good liteon!

Or wait for the new TEAC! :iagree:

PS/ I had a 3530/3540 until it (RIP) :sad:
My R&R was a 3450 :sad:

chas0039: im guessing the 16-24x is for music cds and not data/regular cds, and thanx for the help. and btw i checked out ur scans [from ur sig,] nicely done. btw. all the scans r done @ 4x, is that a limitation of kprobe/liteon model ur using, or just ur preference?

C0deKing: man am i glad i talked to u guys b4 i went ahead and got a burner, lol. thanx to ur 1693s cd burning info now i dont have to hang onto my ltr-52327s cd-burner. looks like ive found another use for the 1693s besides scanning! hey btw, what speed was that burn done @ [http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?p=1036621#post1036621]

[plus i learned a new thing, cd’s dont need to be scanned @ 8x for errors, only dvd’s needs to!]

etp: i feel sorry for ur loss, but even more sorry for the agony that the 3450’s been causing u. ive decided to get the 1693s as a scanner+cd-burner. but if [well most likely will] 1640 takes a while to come out ill need something to burn stuff thats been filling up my hdd, and then its just not a simple choice between the 1620 or 3540 while waiting for the 1640!

but then again with the nice shiny red warning label in chas0039’s sig maybe not [BenQ DW1620A B7V9 (buy with caution)(Scans) BenQ Firmware(Link)]

thanx a bunch guys u saved me from a ton of headaches at a future date.

4X is considered the best speed to scan Liteon Drives; 8X is considered the best for BenQ. Both speeds are a compromise between time and accuracy.

[LEFT]DVD+R SCANS[/LEFT]

these scans are of the first 2 discs [maxell 002 8x +r] that i burned from the
first spindle at the same time with both burners:

00034 burned with the benq dw1620 @ 8x

00035 burned with liteon 1693s @ 8x


00036 1620 8x [i think i accidentally ejected the disc so theres no burn graph]


00041 1693 8x [a bad burn by the liteon?]



00050 1620 8x wopc disabled [swapped maxell002 write strategy with maxell003 and tried 16x, but no go]



00037 1620 12x


00038 1693s 12x [speed hacked the ks09 firmware with omnipatch to support 12x burn for the maxell 002.]
[stopped the liteon scan when it seemed like the drive was stuck trying to scan the disc, and didnt do benq when transfer failed]


00039 1620 12x [just to be sure it wasnt the media i burned 2 more discs @12x again]

00040 1693 12x [i think i stopped the liteon scan after it was stuck scanning]


[LEFT]CD+R SCANS[/LEFT]

00043 1693 48x [tdk branded cmc mag cd]


[all following scans r tdk branded cmc mag cds, didnt scan 00046 with the ltr-52327s]

00044 liteon ltr-52327s cd burner -52x



00044 liteon ltr-52327s cd burner -52x



[00047, 00048, 00049 all burns done with benq branded 52x daxon cds that came with]
[the benq drive. all were burnt @24x and read/scanned at MAX on the liteon 1693s]

00044 liteon ltr-52327s cd burner -52x



ive bought both the benq 1620 + liteon 1693s [btw. thnx for all the help.]
but now im totally lost as regards to the burn quality/scans, as both drives
give diffrent results! i think, the 1620 scans once every 8 ecc blocks and
the 1693 scans every single ecc block [correct me if im wrong.] scans on the
1620, irrespective 4x or 8x, gives extremely consistent scans, the pif’s are
off only by a dozen or so. but the 1693 is totally inconsistent at 8x, heck
even @ 6x the scans are way off compared to the 4x scans. im not sure what
to make of it, im totally condused here, i just cant seem to find any
correlation between the scans of the benq/liteon drive, even of the same media!

[the benq can however show jitter plus poe/pof but cant read c2 errors,
which is helpful in the scandisc in nero cd-dvd speed, while the liteon
can do pie/pif and c1/c2 but cant do jitter or poe/pof, right?]

the 1620 seems to be better @ reading bad dvds than the 1693 [well ive only
done a handful of tests now.] but the 1693 seems way better @ burning cds,
ive already retired my ltr-52327s cd burner as the 1693 burns r better. heck
i even chuckled when the first cd i burned gave a better scan than c0dekings
http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?p=1036621#post1036621 and
using a cmc mag cd rather than the prodisc used by c0deking, which in my
experience gives better scans. however repeating the same scan almost an hour
later, same dvds/cds, on the same drive gave quite a diffrent result.

recently ive stocked up on some really nice media, maxell 002 8x +r MIJ,
[well 400 to be exact,] and compared to the riteks ive been using since
i got a dvd burner, g03 4x -r, g05 8x -r, and r04 16x +r, theyre really
really good, no more 50-60 million pies or millions of pifs.] so ill
be burning these for quite a while, therefor i really want to improve the
burning quality for these discs. ive also including the scans i did so far,
both dvds and cds in the 2 previous posts b4 this 1.

ive already flashed the benq with the B7V9-RPC1 and removed the riplock,
didnt fiddle with the booktype management as it seems they were already
set to dvd-rom [im actually quite impressed with the 1620.] as for the
1693s ive flashed it to KS09 and removed the riplock + changed the drive
to rpc1 and also set dvd+r booktype to dvd-rom [not sure if it was changed
for +rw or +r9 tho.] both drives i bought were boxed retail. and both drives
were flashed with the same exe files that the firmware was in. i couldnt
however save the original firmware that the benq came with, dont know of any
benq firmware flashing/backup utility. but ive saved both the original
firmware and the eeprom of the liteon drive. even tho i modified some of
the stuff in the firmwares, like write strategies/speed hacks all have been
reflashed to the above mentioned settings.

note: the liteon 1693 seems to spinup and then down 5 or 6 times when burning
a dvd so it takes longer to begin burning. dont know if this is normal tho!

#1 faulty chipset that chas0039 mentioned about the 1620 previously, exactly
what is it? how do i know if the drive i bought has it/what can i do if i find
out that i have this problem? itll be really helpfull if u can answer/atleast
point me to the place/topic where i can learn more, thanx.

#2 so the first question is what should i believe regarding the scans? i cant make
any heads/tails out of this thing! even the same drive gives diffrent [esp the benq]
scan results after just an hour or so!

#3 how do i improve the write quality of the maxell002 8x dvd+r [MIJ] media on both
the benq and the liteon drives? and especially @12x burns. well i wouldnt mind if i
cant burn @12x on the liteon as long as the quality @8x improves substantially and
also on the benq. [the cd quality seems to be quite good on the liteon and im going
to use that as the primary cd burner.]

the reason for me asking the #3 question is because ive seen very many burns and scans
with the benq that has less than a 1000 pif’s, heck even when burned @16x!!! as ull see
from this post [ http://club.cdfreaks.com/showpost.php?p=1052503&postcount=6 ] that even
low quality [well atleast compared to the maxell MIJ’s] discs can have really nice burns,
and these were scanned with the benq itself!! the only time i get lower than 1500 pif’s
is when i scan with the liteon but not with the benq!

ninbang’s scans
DAXON AZ2 ( B7U9 f/w @ default write strategy ):
96 QS - PIE @ 15 max / 46,878 ttl; PIF @ 7 max / 1,738 ttl
97 QS - PIE @ 20 max / 43,575 ttl; PIF @ 6 max / 469 ttl

DAXON AZ2 ( B7U9 f/w @ MBIPG101 R05 write strat ):
97 QS - PIE @ 16 max / 23,378 ttl; PIF @ 6 max / 407 ttl
97 QS - PIE @ 17 max / 29,396 ttl; PIF @ 6 max / 386 ttl
97 QS - PIE @ 11 max / 22,719 ttl; PIF @ 5 max / 362 ttl

once again thanx a lot for ur help.

found the answer to question #1 here http://club.cdfreaks.com/showpost.php?p=1036122&postcount=25

There is really no benefit to comparing scans from different drives, especially if you own both drives. Scans are a relative measure of burn quality so you essentially establish a baseline of performance and then look for variations. These variations need to be significant to be meaningful.

I do all my scanning with the Liteons as they do ECC at more frequent intervals than BenQ and therefore are more accurate. Scan with the Liteon at 4X; experience has determined that there is no significant difference between 4X and 1X and this will save time. If you choose to use the BenQ you would scan at 8X.

A perfect scan would have PIE under 10,000 total and would have a max level of around 10. PIF errors would be under 100 total and less than 4 max. Keep in mind this is perfection; plenty of very readable discs will have errors well above 10,000 and 100 and max levels higher as well, but PIF should not exceed 4 regardless.

I well remember how confusing these things can be when I first started scanning. Keep at it and look at lots of scans and soon you will know what you are looking at.

See here for a good example of a good scan:

http://club.cdfreaks.com/showpost.php?p=1061541&postcount=79

thanx for the reply chas0039. i kinda figuered about the ecc scanning, but dvd scanning in general is still kinda confusing albeit, but im getting the hang of it little by little.

even more confusing tho are the cd scans, made more traumatising by the addition af a 3rd drive to scan/burn with [for dvds i can only use 2 drives.] and unlike the dvd scans, the same cds burned and scanned with the same burner and at diffrent times gives a more varying result than a dvd, and forget about using diffrent drives for scanning!

so question #2 is also cleared up thanx to you chas0039 [now only need to make some sense of the cd scans.] as for #1 i just looked at a picture of the benq drive i took after i unpacked it, and unfortunately for me it was made in december of 2004 [i guess i should saddle up for the ride thats most likely coming my way.]

chas0039 thats 1 heck of a scan u got there congrats dude [didnt know tdk could be that high quality;] havent seen total pif of 51 and a max of only 1, well ever, i guess thats sorta pif nirvana of some sort u reached there, lol. and that spindle [if im right about the picture here http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817131580] looks like the 1s made in japan rather than the usual 1s made in tiwan.

btw was that burn done at the rated 8x, or was it higher and what about wopc?

I don’t overspeed as I am obsessed with quality; it was done at 8X. WOPC is supposed to be designed to adjust for quality so I always leave it on. For the record, my best scan for PIF had a total of 3; done on an LG 4163 A103 firmware with Prodics made Verbatim MCC 02RG20, at 8X. Someday I will get to zero.

My TDK came from Newegg but they are +R not -R.