DW1620 and PROBLEMS with audio protections CACTUS200...? ,-((

vbimport

#1

YES…
i use a lot my DW1620 for Audio Extraction too!.. it was (as strange as it may seem…) from the beginning one of the main great & strong bying point TOO for me!! : the reviews from CDRInfo and CDFreaks were raving about its audio rip qualities too, especially about two/three very important things when you are in audio extraction(!):

  • great scratched cds read abilities (CONFIRMED!)
  • great EAC secure speed with or without cache (CONFIRMED!)
  • great audio protection rip abilities (PROBLEMS HERE :sad: )
    I even posted a thread here before bying one to be sure it was true… :slight_smile: …and answers were positive so… and for standard things, indeed, i discovered later exactly the same things so; wonderful with/for “standard” things so on every two first points… great for that, indeed… :bow: :wink:

Here are the original reviews on those precise points… and their “conclusions” so ;
http://www.cdfreaks.com/article/159/8
http://www.cdfreaks.com/article/152/8
http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Reviews/Specific.aspx?ArticleId=10450&PageId=6
http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Reviews/Specific.aspx?ArticleId=10686&PageId=6

BUT… Here are the “problems” i noticed recently… that was INEVITABLE after a little moment that i came upon a protected audio cd too… and i did of course.

… i “discovered” a few very annoying “things” about the “flawless” CDS200 abilities (and others too) (“according to” the raving CdrInfo/Cdfreaks quick reviews on that visibly… on that very special point :frowning: ) … :

( 1/ KEY2AUDIO
(same exact ultra classical Shakira - 2001 - Laundry Service test album than the reviews for exemple…) : in EAC secure mode, Key2Audio is OK, but… EXTREMELY SLOW too (1.5/2X…). The Burst speed is OK as the “reviews” stated though… but the Secure mode is crawling. Well, not that important here ; the rips are perfect, ok. not a real problem so… but not full speed in secure mode so! (in comparison, an old toshiba1612 dvdrom is 5x quicker on the same disc though… not a real problem for a few discs only, but weird all the same… and not said in the “reviews”!). )

2/ CACTUS CDS 200
SAME AS KEY2AUDIO : when working, the rip is perfect but… EXTREMELY SLOW (1.5/2X) in Secure mode… here again, that is not that important if the rip is OK anyway… but here again ONLY the Burst speed is at max speed (as the reviews stated…)…
BUT MUCH MORE ANNOYING HERE TOO, now:
there are NUMEROUS versions of CDS200 (constantly evolving…)… :sad: and the reviews used only the oldest ones… the most EASY ones visibly…
“Natalie Imbruglias White lilies Island” --> only CDS200 200.0.4/4.0build10b… (or at max “Herbert Gönemeyer: Mensch” - This disc is protected with Cactus Datashield 200.0.4 .3(build 12b) ).

And, indeed, all the CDS200 with that one (200.0.4/4.0build10b) are OK here too…
exemple:
Martin L Gore - 2003 - Counterfeit² OK

PROBLEMS:
every other superior CDS200 are totally impossible to rip in secure mode with my BenQ1620 : TOTALLY FULL of read errors… the rip even stop and skip track before the end of each tracks so full of error they are… The BURST mode are strangely working at full speed again though… but the Test&Copy CRC are full of errors too… :sad: :sad:

In that category, i noticed:

  • CDS 200.5.0.150/5.00.160 (late 2003/ early 2004…)
    ex :
    Dido - 2003 - Life For Rent
    Pink - 2003 - Try This
    Alicia Keys - 2004 - The Diary Of Alicia Keys
  • CDS 200.5.11.90/5.10.090 (late 2004…)
    Joss Stone - 2004 - Mind Body & Soul

… all those disks are TOTALLY unrippable in EAC / Secure mode so… full of reads errors (and skips)… even if in burst, strangely ok at full speed (as the reviews stated…), BUT full of CRC errors… :sad: :sad:
(an extremely ironical discovery i did too here is that my extremely old cd-writer HP9100 was able to rip, IT, the Pink and Alicia Keys albums (and almost the dido one… one track with an unrecoverable CRC error… must be a bad pressed disc… common on that very badly pressed album i read anyway… :a )!!! Extremely slowly too (1.5x) but OK!!!.. on the other hand, the old HP was totally out too for the last (2004…) CDS 200.5.11.90/5.10.090 Joss stone album… but at least ok for the 2003/2004 CDS 200.5.0.150/5.00.160 so!!!.. at the difference of the Benq so… :sad: ).

My question:
Did Other people here notice those problems with their own BenQ/philips (with recent CDS200 >2003 so… >200.0.4/4.0build10b)

I must admit i am a little (very) disappointed with that discovery : basically, that means that all the new RECENT 2004/2005 CDS200 audio protected disks are OUT of reach and totally undoable with the BenQ… apparently. :sad: :sad:

Is that only my drive???
or others could notice that too so???

PS:
i tried everything i could think at to try to “fix” that; all firmwares, different IDE places, ide controllers, cables, different ASPI layers, etc… nothing, always the same : standard rips perfects, standard protections perfect but very slow (in eac secure mode), and CDS200 “recent” totally screwed so… -?

PS2:
I saw that the last CdFreaks reviews are testing drives with “Mensch - This disc is protected with Cactus Datashield 200.0.4 .3(build 12b)” (and CdrInfo ones always with Natalie Imbroglia!!..2002!..)… it would maybe be time to test with the CDS200 last disks like the Joss Stone one maybe… visibly, that can make a BIG difference in the results… in fact, the ideal for the reviews would be to test visibly at least 3 CDS200 audio disks : 2002/early 2003 disks, are not the same as late 2003 and even less as 2004 CDS200 ones… i can only imagine that the 2005 CDS200 version will follow exactly the same trend… CDS200= like safedisc in games visibly… evolving constantly… to be more accurate/informative, the reviews should point out different test disc versions so… maybe… the CDS200 is really the worst protection out there… a total ù**ùù:sad:

(all protections checked with ClonyXXL 2.0.1.5)

PS3:
On the bright side, i could on the other hand rip with it and without any problems the very last and “new” Sony protection (that is giving a lot of problems to a lot of other hardwares apparently…) : “Sony’s OpenMG DRM system” (basically very last late 2004 Key2Audio… intented to be much more annoying…) : “Duran Duran - 2004 - Astronaut” (ex). VERY SLOWLY again (1.5/2x) (as usual with protected things in secure mode visibly…), but PERFECT rip again at the end… so… no special reclamations for that as for me… here.
:bow: :wink:


#2

Did you try B7T9 f/w?


#3

Hi, thanks for your quick reply : yes (that’s even my last current f/w).
Actually, all the BenQ f/w…

On the other hand, i just saw that crossflashs with last Philips 3.0/3.2 could be possible… i might try those ones too, but… other people with Philips could confirm maybe before so?.. :wink:


#4

I don’t know. 1st i’ve seen of this problem. Very interesting and will keep watching to see what other people post here.


#5

Have you tried using Anydvd? It has an option to remove cd protections. I wonder if it works for anything like this.


#6

It’s my understanding that it’s well known that both CD and DVD burners are not known for being good readers of protected media (Audio & Data; CD & DVD). You should be able to purchase a very good CD/DVD reader (only) that will read almost anything for about $25. Have you read the DVD-ROM Roundup Vol.4 review at CDRinfo?


#7

sunset2004,

You are getting great features for CD audio ripping from your BenQ DW1620 considering it’s a DVD writer. Many DVD writers don’t do nearly as well as the DW1620 for digital audio extraction. Like TX Techie suggested above, get a different drive for ripping the newest protected audio CDs.

I never have a problem copying any audio CDs because if they’re really stubborn, there’s always alternative ways of “copying” them to your hard drive; not just “ripping” them. Anyhow, I hope you find a CD writer/reader that fits what you’re looking for. Maybe one of the Plextor models or LiteOns; both are known to be very good for these sort of things. I don’t personally care because there’s always more than one way to skin a cat. :bigsmile:


#8

Hi again! Yes, i tried once with AnyDvd “behind” too… it changed nothing for that from what i saw -for those very specific CDS “secured” audio extraction problems so (under eac anyway) (seemed to be great for DVD rips though), so i preferred to remove it quickly all the same…

Anyway, when i said “undoable”, that was maybe a little too much; actually, i can read and extract in BURST mode at full speed without any problem (that’s the most strange of it too!) : that thing only is already not so common with such very specific and annoying “ultra-screwed” :frowning: discs (a lot of drives/hardwares are also simply complelely unable to even simply read those late CDS200 discs… and can’t even read the correct TOC under EAC… :sad: …AnyDVD might help those hardwares here maybe… -?). With the BenQ1620, the reading on the PC is perfect and possible, and the EAC extraction in BURST mode (extremely quick possible… especially with no Test&Copy done… like a lot of people are doing without beeing aware about the crc common possible errors in burst mode too…) is possible too… and even very correct apparently (“on the ear”), no noticeable special noises or such… for “personal quick use” i guess that’s can be more than sufficient (that’s by the way like that i could listen that Joss Stone album on my PC, under Foobar200 and/or Winamp, once converted in FLAC…). i guess that extraction mode must be more or less the same as AnyDVD+ other less ‘extrem’ audio rippers than EAC (so, very possible too… all in all). BUT the problem is for exigent persons… or simply when you have to follow very strict and homogen rules of audio extractions :

  • EAC Secure Mode totally impossible (full read not even possible!)
  • BURST Mode OK but FULL of CRCs errors (Test&Copy verification) : that means that the extracted wavs are NOT the same bites/bites than the originals… this is a TOTAL and DIRECT “NO GO/NO WAY” for homogen and perfect and strict rips of course (but for ‘personnal quick usage’ -not archival purpose…-, that could be ok though…)… :sad:

Now, from what i saw elsewhere, some Plextor and Liteon drives can extract those same discs too (extremely slowly too… but OK), in the exact same EAC modes…

If other BenQ/Philips users could confirm that they encountered the exact same problems with their own drives with those late CDS200 (if they could check their version with ClonyXXL too, would be perfect to completely be able to compare with!), and even with all the other standard protections in EAC Secure Mode (perfect but noticeably extremely slower too!)… thanks in advance so! Just to be sure for/with my specific drive/setup at least… :iagree: :wink:


#9

Hi, thx for your input, TX :
yes, of course i read that review before (&among others!) :wink: :
where did you see that those drives were better for those precise audio difficult things (we are not talking about pure rip speeds here, but about audio protections here!)?! That is alas a well known thing (at the contrary for audio so, alas), that “simple” cd/dvdreaders will never be as good than pure writers for difficult audio protections anyway (writers have simply better built-in ways to handle errors…)! And since a long time!.. alas… :iagree:
And indeed, things are confirmed here again … did you read that VERY specific part (the audio part… precisely… :slight_smile: ) ?!? :
http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Reviews/Specific.aspx?ArticleId=11566&PageId=7
Alas, if for 25$/€ we could find a perfect “all-around” jewel like that, indeed, i think that would be well known…

PS:
That’s clearly (indeed) only for game protections/DVDs rips speeds that writers are well known to be much worst than much cheaper simple “readers” indeed (especially the last ones… seemed to be done in purpose by drive makers… to sell their standard readers too… same for DVD locks speeds or not… :sad: )!.. not the same for Audio things though… alas(!!). things would be easier then, clearly (alas)… :wink:

Socrates… it seems our posts crossed when i posted my last ones… :slight_smile:
My “problem”/QUESTION is NOT if i get (or not) “great features for CD audio ripping” here (all in all… YES, the global abilities are very nice, and i said it from the beginnings in my first post if you read it… from the beginnings… i am far from beeing really unsatisfied and “criticizing” your same BenQ beloved drive!.. :slight_smile: -and not just the apparent “bad” conclusion so -or at least the concrete observations done here on those precise CDS/protections points so!) : but i simply ASKED if others could ever do those last CDS200 with it (and under EAC… indeed… but just like the reviews stated too anyway…^)!!! And incidently, if their speeds in Secure Mode were also VERY reduced with any protected audio things (slow but OK too -the most important thing here too anyway!) with every more standard audio protections so… just to be sure about that so… Point… :slight_smile:
Moreover, i DO think that that kind of information can be useful for people trying to have infos on that (with limited different drives possibilities inside their tower for exemple)… on that point, the reviews i pointed were NOT very precise so, you must be agreeing with me on that… and the differences between CDS200 versions ARE very important too so (apparently)!.. and results are varying immediately so… what the reviews don’t really indicate that so…

I never have a problem copying any audio CDs because if they’re really stubborn, there’s always alternative ways of “copying” them to your hard drive; not just “ripping” them. Anyhow, I hope you find a CD writer/reader that fits what you’re looking for. Maybe one of the Plextor models or LiteOns; both are known to be very good for these sort of things. I don’t personally care because there’s always more than one way to skin a cat.

It seems that’s the part of your simultaneous post i answered indirectly just in my previous post above so… :bigsmile:
OF COURSE there can be numerous ways in a lot of things, Socrates certainly knew that himself more than anyone… ( :slight_smile: )… but here especially, as i said, you simply sometimes need homogen and extremely strict rip methods too… (especially when you are serious in archiving audio things… with preferably the exact same rip methods used too usually :slight_smile: )… a burst mode full of CRCs errors (or others “similar” methods under other softwares… that are existing indeed, of course!^) can sure be sufficient for quick persons (and that’s by the way like that i listened that Joss Stone album by the way as i said above… without really noticeable audio problems too!..).

Anyway… i just asked if other people with their BenQ1620/Philips DID notice the same “problems” under EAC with those last CDS200 so… under EAC secure mode (or BURST Test&Copy)… just to be sure it was NOT my specific drive/setup so (that’s could always be a possibility too!)…

And YES, some Plextor/Liteon do can do that (and usually extremely slowly too… that’s normal here!)… under those same (standard) EAC very precise modes so! That the worst part in that(!)… but i would really like to know if other people get the same experience with THEIR BenQ/Philips so… just to be sure… (not just to learn that there is “always more than one way to skin a cat”!!!)… TIA!! :stuck_out_tongue: :wink:

PS:
By the way, Socrates… which CDS200 disks (names? versions? ways/soft used so?..) did you rip with your BenQ, exactly? Did you notice too and can then confirm too the slow secure rip speed under EAC even if that “worked” so? (and… Do you know what EAC “secure/burst/test&copy/crc/etc” is by the way ?!? :slight_smile: )… :wink:


#10

Duh? Yes, I know what all of them are. I was using EAC when it first became available online (back in 1998 I believe) from Andre Wiethoff. I first used version 0.1 beta of EAC so I think I know a little bit about it. Additionally, I worked for many years as an audio mastering engineer. That’s why I could care less about “ripping” a CD to my hard disk with what you call “homogen and extremely strict rip methods”.

I can get a “perfect” digital copy of any CD without “ripping” via a CD/DVD writer. Do what you like and whatever method(s) works for you. Just don’t try to be a wiseguy with me. It’s not appreciated. :stuck_out_tongue:


#11

I’m wondering if this thread ought to be moved. I know it has to do with sunset2004’s BenQ but it’s more of a recording software question? sunset2004 don’t get mad if it gets moved as i don’t think your going to get many replys in this BenQ forum. Good luck!


#12

If it gets moved can we leave a link here? I don’t read all the other forums, but if it affects my drive I am interested and would like to follow it . . .


#13

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:


#14

:eek: :eek: :eek:
Hmmm… EXCUSE ME “SOCRATES007”, but… WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT EXACTLY???

I ask a simple question about my BenQ1620; i observed a few things about CDS200. I gave details. I simply asked if others people had observed the same things, simply to know if it was my specific drive (a problem can always exist), OR if it was a normal thing, that’s to say a thing observed by other people too.

And what???
YOU came and don’t answer the question and simply make a comment on " there’s always more than one way to skin a cat." … you pretend to give advice on “be happy with your drive” etc!! (!!!). And you absolutely don’t answer the question, nor give any useful details here : ???

What is YOUR problem here exactly???
You, please, “don’t YOU try to be a “wiseguy” with me”(?!?) TOO and mainly… and what is that answer exactly? :eek:

Please, just stick to the initial question and give details if you have some to give. Facts. Points; And don’t try to give advices like “be happy with your drive” blabla etc… that’s really not the question and absolutely not the problem here.

Like giving ridiculous advices about other ways to rip, bla etc ; i know there are others ways, other softwares, etc. That’s absolutely not what i ask you… ???

BUT i SIMPLY asked about EAC indeed. The same softwares used in the reviews, by the ways, for your information, HERE. And the fact that the reviews said it was OK for CDS200 (with EAC so) ; my observations just gave a few concrete differences between different CDS200 versions… and different results.

That’s all. And i just wanted to know if others people had observed that too. POINT.
Where is the problem with that exactly???
Is that too difficult to understand???

And I always don’t know if you observed the same thing with your drive (and EAC so)… you simply DON’T ANSWER exactly to the question. all simply. Or if you even simply understood the question.

Don’t give “advices” like that, just give your facts with EAC if you had noticed it too.

And/But be precise thanks.
That’s almost ridiculous… ???
???

PS:
I do know you know very well the Benq1620, Socrates007… that’s really not the problem here (and wtf about that too, here, exactly??)… please, just answer simply here then; take your EAC, take a CDS200 disk (>2003 for exemple), check the exact version with ClonyXXL… and just check if you observe the exact same thing with your drive then… Thanks in advance for that, no problem. For the rest, thanks too, but that’s not really what is asked here so… peace and thanks… :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :iagree:


#15

Yes, thanks too!
I would like to know the answer too… (!)

If there was not Socrates that wanted(?) to “hijack” that thread, trying to talk and “teach” (?!) about everything BUT the question here ( :slight_smile: :slight_smile: ), other possible drives(???), other possible softwares and ways to rip (???), when absolutely not asked nor required and even less necessary here(!!), that would be easier!!! (???) :slight_smile:

I think too that those simple (EAC) observations are not totally useless… : ? … and even if only simply in regards to (to compare with) the initial (EAC) tests in the REVIEWS so (/CDS200)… and even for other people interested in audio UNDER EAC too so… and obviously EAC especially here so!!).

Crossing fingers… peace. With luck… maybe we will have a precise and simple answer on those really simple points(!)… in the end. :bow: :bow: :slight_smile:

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: (too :slight_smile: )


#16

No problem, Rolling56… i just would like to have a precise answer on that, that’s all too… in the end so. If possible (and if it is not too much asked on that really simple question(!) ). :)… and, seriously, though, what other better place than a direct BenQ forum with other people having the SAME drive anyway… an intelligent people like socrates007, having even been an “audio mastering engineer”, just have to open EAC, put in it one of the numerous CDS200 Cds he has already done (apparently!..), and simply check if he finds the same things… that’s all i “asked” here!!!.. that’s really simple, really…and only owners of BenQ can do that imo… who could be better placed for that anyway here… :wink: :wink:

… and that’s just a little complement to the BenQ/Philips “audio protected Cds TESTS” reviews’s parts too, by the way… about CDS200 in particular!!..

peace… just crossing fingers in hope a single benQ user will have the possibility to check that, very quickly, in EAC with a CDS200 cd so (>2003 for exemple…)… and eventually if he observed too a (relatively) general slow Secure rip speed with other protections so… really nothing else and nothing more difficult here!! :wink:


#17

sunset2004 > It’s not up to me if the thread gets moved or not. I would just like to see you get the most benificial replys that’s all. They don’t allow crossposting here so you can’t post this in another forum without getting flamed or told off by a mod. I’m waiting for someone to post a solution to this problem as well.


#18

Yes, thanks Rolling56. Note though that’s not really a “problem”… just an observation asking to be confirmed or not by at least just ONE another BenQ owner so (being himself too interested in audio extractions under EAC… and having encountered or not the same problems with a few of his own ‘recent’ CDS200 disks… or not)!.. it would be a “problem” (for me!) if only me had that so… would mean that’s simply my drive so… (bad luck!). :confused: :wink:

And seriously, i really don’t see WHY the mods here would like to move that thread from that forum(!), there is really no better place than a direct BenQ forum with other BenQ owners so… as it is a simple direct BenQ/Philips drive question/observation about CDS200/etc so (and under EAC so, like the same initial tests in the BenQ/Philips reviews too anyway…).

And for sure i took care NOT to crosspost that simple question too… just need a few people of good will HERE, owning themselves a BenQ drive so… :wink: …just not taking that like a “critic” against the BenQ (and wanting to hide it?!) when that is REALLY absolutely NOT one (neither a question about how to rip a CDS200 disk, lol… -?!)!!!.. :wink:


#19

Like rolling56 has already told you - it’s up to the mods to make that decision. As far as “hijacking” your thread, I don’t think so. I replied back to your question. Maybe you didn’t like my reply or felt that I should have answered otherwise. If such is the case, then you can answer your own question(s) instead of me. Of course, I wouldn’t want to “hijack” anyone’s thread. So here you go - the thread is all yours. Bye-bye.


#20

(back after 2 days…)
AGAIN, Socrates007??? Always trying to bullshitting in that thread or what?

Obviously that’s to the mods alone to take a decision like that, and certainly not to a guy like you (or me, or anyone else… even more if that’s not justified^). And of course that thread is not moved as is, as it IS an obvious and direct Ben/Philips issue/question, on a very specific model too. And not just an inadequated “software” issue here as you tried(?) to “imply” for all definitive answer… Or just a “be happy with your drive” (etc!) issue too!! That YOU want it or not… and of course there are other forums knowing much more about EAC than here (or with more chances to find people knowing what we are talking about with EAC here… and using it on a much more regular basis than on a, by definition, much more generalist forum like that one here obviously)… BUT that question IS a specific model related question : non BenQ/Philips owners interested in audio can absolutely NOT answer to it… or help (aka simply verifying and checking quickly themselves) about it. Only BenQ owners can or… could. The ones using their BenQ for audio too AND with EAC (that IS known as THE best and precise/secure digital cheap direct audio ripper out there, especially using the methods we are talking about here -secure mode and/or burst with crc Test&Copy- , not just Burst or similar less precise methods without Test&copy that is working here of course too as i said -suffice to READ-, obviously, for the ones really “careful” in audio, among thousand other “possible” softwares too of course. point.^) in particular here too obviously… or at least that could be able to check it quickly with it, even if they can use other softwares too (obviously)… or even other much more costly analog ways with premium priced real hifi materials (that are absolutely NOT the subject here…). ^ And with good will and pleasant. What you are obviously totally NOT. Your attitude and reactions are more than weird… worst, they even denote a self-satisfaction totally inadequated here… and even misleading answers. :rolleyes:

Please, just stay away from that thread then, indeed; that is OBVIOUS that you have absolutely no clue or more exactly don’t want to talk about it even less “help”/CHECK about it… about what we are talking about here… or even worst : you don’t want to hear about it and try to bullshitting around from the beginnings here.

As you say : “bye bye”.
I clearly think that would indeed be better to have no answer at all from you than those totally deluting self-satisfied answers from yours… if you don’t want to “hear” that question that’s your problem, not mine. I am a Benq owner as for me, not a fanatic.

i observed a problem with the reviews and CDS200… i would like to be sure that’s not just my model… ^ Although excellent, those reviews can visibly be very misleading for people interested in audio under EAC so… according to those reviews, the BenQ/Philips was among the best current possible protected audio ripper (Key2Audio, CDS200, etc)… if not THE best, among the much more traditionnal Plextors and Liteon indeed (for those audio very specific needs)… of course. I simply noted that’s maybe not totally the case for the BenQ so… alas.

If you are not able to understand that, and don’t even want to hear about that/check it yourself, that’s not my problem, but clearly only yours… “socrates007”.

I note that you are clearly the only one here answering like that here… people that don’t know simply usually don’t answer, that’s logical… but with your :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: trying to pretend that was indeed just a software problem here… and that that thread could be moved and is not adequated here… Rolling56 just asked the question, and tried to kindly answer/propose (others) solutions to it before, what i did appreciate and thank him again! (even if not knowing/using a lot EAC too visibly, what is very possible too of course… what i can understand too in a generalist forum like here too as i said). You, you clearly came and tried to approve that…giving obviously a false orientation to that, and knowing, you, perfectly EAC of course… or pretending to. ^ If you don’t want to hear it, don’t answer such a thread. Simply go on with your infinite tests with DVD+ or DVD- then… but don’t mess around with digital audio rips too with the BenQ then, if you can’t even do a precise answer with EAc too to simply and precisely check a question like that.

amazing