DVR-K16 and DVD+R DL burning fails

[qanda]This thread is about the Pioneer DVR-K16. Click here to see full specs[/qanda]Hello, I’m new here.
Since now, I’ve been using Verbatim DL discs, they have worked perfectly - not a single bad burn. However, with new Mitsubishi discs, things have changed.
Anyway, i got myself Mitsubishi Chemicals DVD+R DL 8.5GB discs. Everything looked good, they have Media ID same as the Verbs. I also read from these forums confirmations that these discs are very good. So i bought 50 discs of those. Unfortunately they do not seem to work for me.

I tried using growisofs program under linux and saw a peculiar thing - as soon as it reached second layer the speed went down from 2.4X to 0.6 and the drive started spinning up and down, seeking… Then i noticed that UBU (Unit Buffer Utilisation) was jumping up and down between 2% and 100%…
I thought that maybe this is a bug with “growisofs”, so i booted into windows and tried IMGBurn, i selected .dvd file and tried to burn - same thing happened again, as soon as it reached 51% the device buffer started to go up and down and speed fell to 0.6x.

My DVD burner is Pioneer DVR-K16 rpc1 1.44 fw (UDMA enabled). Running windows vista 32bit or Gentoo (2.6.30 custom built kernel).
DVD+R DL’s are from Mitsubishi Chemicals with media ID MKM-003 (here: http://club.cdfreaks.com/f76/mitsubishi-chemicals-dvd-r-dl-97058/ )

Here is ImgBurn log:

I 13:33:53 ImgBurn Version 2.4.4.0 started!
I 13:33:53 Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate x64 Edition (6.0, Build 6001 : Service Pack 1)
I 13:33:53 Total Physical Memory: 2Â 488Â 936 KB  -  Available: 1Â 488Â 560 KB
I 13:33:53 Initialising SPTI...
I 13:33:53 Searching for SCSI / ATAPI devices...
I 13:33:53 Found 1 DVD±RW/RAM!
I 13:43:35 Operation Started!
I 13:43:35 Source File: C:\Users\xxxxxxx\Desktop\myiso\lbinfo.dvd
I 13:43:35 Source File Sectors: 3Â 697Â 696 (MODE1/2048)
I 13:43:35 Source File Size: 7Â 572Â 881Â 408 bytes
I 13:43:35 Source File Volume Identifier: DISK_PAL
I 13:43:35 Source File Volume Set Identifier: 34672923
I 13:43:35 Source File Implementation Identifier: Sonic Scenarist 3.1
I 13:43:35 Source File File System(s): ISO9660; UDF (1.02)
I 13:43:35 Destination Device: [2:0:0] PIONEER DVD-RW  DVR-K16 1.44 (D:) (ATA)
I 13:43:35 Destination Media Type: DVD+R DL (Disc ID: MKM-003-00) (Speeds: 2,4x; 4x)
I 13:43:35 Destination Media Sectors: 4Â 173Â 824
I 13:43:35 Write Mode: DVD
I 13:43:35 Write Type: DAO
I 13:43:35 Write Speed: 6x
I 13:43:35 Link Size: Auto
I 13:43:35 Lock Volume: Yes
I 13:43:35 Test Mode: No
I 13:43:35 OPC: No
I 13:43:35 BURN-Proof: Enabled
I 13:43:35 Advanced Settings - Optimal Writing Speed: No
I 13:43:35 Optimal L0 Data Zone Capacity: 1Â 913Â 760
I 13:43:35 Optimal L0 Data Zone Method: Copied From Original Disc
I 13:44:20 Set L0 Data Zone Capacity Succeeded!
I 13:44:20 Filling Buffer... (40 MB)
I 13:44:21 Writing LeadIn...
I 13:44:23 Writing Session 1 of 1... (1 Track, LBA: 0 - 3697695)
I 13:44:23 Writing Track 1 of 1... (MODE1/2048, LBA: 0 - 3697695)
I 13:44:23 Writing Layer 0... (LBA: 0 - 1913759)
I 13:58:27 Writing Layer 1... (LBA: 1913760 - 3697695)
W 14:53:14 Failed to Write Sectors 2968160 - 2968191 - Reason: Unknown (Internal Target 

Failure) (ASC: 0x44, ASCQ: 0x8E)
W 14:53:14 Retrying (1 of 20)...
I 15:08:32 Abort Request Acknowledged
I 15:08:32 Synchronising Cache...
I 15:08:41 Closing Track...
I 15:09:32 Finalising Disc...
E 15:20:15 Failed to Write Image!
I 15:20:16 Exporting Graph Data...
I 15:20:16 Graph Data File: C:\Users\xxxxxx\AppData\Roaming\ImgBurn\Graph Data 

Files\PIONEER_DVD-RW_DVR-K16_1.44_26-JUUNI-2009-A-_13-43_MKM-003-00_6x.ibg
I 15:20:16 Export Successfully Completed!
E 15:20:16 Operation Aborted! - Duration: 01:36:40
I 15:20:16 Average Write Rate: 1Â 175 KB/s (0.8x) - Maximum Write Rate: 5Â 592 KB/s (4.0x)

Okay, i had the chance to burn one of these discs on another burner and guess what, it finished this time.
Although when i tried playing this media back, it failed to install it (I’m not going to discuss anything about the media type or playback device…).
Maybe i just got a bad pack of discs? MKM 003 should be very good, no? Anyway, im gonna see if i can try some more with other burners. The burner that I had success was TSSTcorp cddvdw ts-l6332n sc02 (Samsung R70 laptop burner).

6x DL in a slimtype burner? no way.

[QUOTE=Andycos;2298683]
My DVD burner is Pioneer DVR-K16 rpc1 1.44 fw (UDMA enabled). [/QUOTE]

You’re using quite an old firmware. If you’re willing to update it, you might be interested in this thread: http://forum.rpc1.org/viewtopic.php?t=43565

Maybe the newer writing strategies in the latest available firmware for this drive will help you burn 8x Verbatims successfully (max burning speed will be 4x).

[QUOTE=chef;2298874]6x DL in a slimtype burner? no way.[/QUOTE]
That was the second run, i just wanted to see if it could do 6x. And no, it couldn’t - the max speed i saw was 3.0x, but it stayed on 2.4 and dropped back to 0.6x…

[QUOTE=cvs;2298920]You’re using quite an old firmware. If you’re willing to update it, you might be interested in this thread: http://forum.rpc1.org/viewtopic.php?t=43565

Maybe the newer writing strategies in the latest available firmware for this drive will help you burn 8x Verbatims successfully (max burning speed will be 4x).[/QUOTE]
Hmmm, that is interesting, would this link that was given in that thread: ftp://ftp.vaio-link.com/pub/Downloads/PI/F/OPD/PIFOPD-01103906-UN.EXE work for me?
I just checked the dvd rom stickers and it tells me DVR-K16LA. In that thread, i read that this sony “VAD” fw is meant for K16M?:o

[QUOTE=Andycos;2298924]
Hmmm, that is interesting, would this link that was given in that thread: ftp://ftp.vaio-link.com/pub/Downloads/PI/F/OPD/PIFOPD-01103906-UN.EXE work for me?
I just checked the dvd rom stickers and it tells me DVR-K16LA. In that thread, i read that this sony “VAD” fw is meant for K16M?:o[/QUOTE]

Yes it will, just follow the instructions from that thread :wink:

The LA is an HP OEM version if I remember correctly, the RA = Acer, the M (aka VAS, VAD, D) = Sony, etc
They should all share the same hardware inside, just the firmware is different.
Essentially you’ll end up “crossflashing” between the OEM models :wink:
Why? … because the Sony OEM firmware is a year and a half newer than the other existing official, unofficial or OEM versions and it also supports more media …

Let us know the result and if there are any improvements on Verbatim DL … Good luck! (not that luck has anything to do with it really :bigsmile:)

Okay, i just tried that firmware updater, but it gave me “target is not found” and just closed.
I think it doesnt like the fact that my current firmware is 1.44 and K16 instead of K16M. Is there something that i can do about it? :confused:
Can i use “PIONEER DVR-K16M - Currently RPC1 firmware based on 1.00 SONY.” TDB flasher from here: http://tdb.rpc1.org/ and then try running sony flash utility? Or is the rpc1 fw going to be unrecognized again by sony updater (because its custom fw)?

[QUOTE=Andycos;2298945]Okay, i just tried that firmware updater, but it gave me “target is not found” and just closed.
I think it doesnt like the fact that my current firmware is 1.44 and K16 instead of K16M. Is there something that i can do about it? :confused:
[/QUOTE]

That is to be expected of course.
What you are after is this bit from that thread:

To go from the Pioneer K16 v1.44 firmware to the K16M v1.10 Sony fw, I used TDB’s K16M v1.00 flasher first, and once crossflashed to a K16M, I just used Sony’s flasher to update to v1.10 (the VAD firmware).

As for the second part of the question:

Or is the rpc1 fw going to be unrecognized again by sony updater (because its custom fw)?

No, I don’t remember the flasher complaining about that. You should be able to update to 1.10 once you’ve crossflashed it using TDB’s K16M 1.00 flasher.

Thanks, I flashed it to 1.0 (TDB) and then used sony flasher. It went quite smooth and drive is actually making a bit different sound when ever i close the tray. Im writing another DL disc right now, ill let you know if it worked or not.
However, it seems i still can’t burn at higher speeds than 2.4x (i set it to 3x). So pretty big chance that the media is still unsupported :sad:

[QUOTE=Andycos;2298953]Thanks, I flashed it to 1.0 (TDB) and then used sony flasher. It went quite smooth and drive is actually making a bit different sound when ever i close the tray. Im writing another DL disc right now, ill let you know if it worked or not.
However, it seems i still can’t burn at higher speeds than 2.4x (i set it to 3x). So pretty big chance that the media is still unsupported :sad:[/QUOTE]

Strange, 8x Verbatims should be burning at 4x :confused:
Unless they are a different MKM 003 revision or something?

DVD+R9   supported media types:   11
------------------------------------------
CMC MAG_ D01    4x,2.4x
INFOME__ D01    
MKM_____ 001    4x,2.4x
MKM_____ 003    4x,2.4x
PHILIPS_ CD2    4x,2.4x
PHILIPS_ PD2    4x,2.4x
PRODISC  D01    2.4x
RICOHJPN D00    2.4x
RICOHJPN D01    2.4x
RICOHJPN D01    2.4x
RITEK___ D01    2.4x

Setting the burning speed to 3x sounds a bit strange too, it should be either 2.4x or 4x … what burning software are you using?

EDIT: Just noticed that you’re using ImgBurn … and the media seems to be normal MKM 003 … strange … maybe try another burning software?

Try to use DVDIdentifier and have a look at the “Drive Capabilities on This Disc” tab and see what it reports … if it says 4x there might be an issue with ImgBurn I suppose …

[QUOTE=cvs;2298960]Strange, 8x Verbatims should be burning at 4x :confused:
Unless they are a different MKM 003 revision or something?

DVD+R9   supported media types:   11
------------------------------------------
CMC MAG_ D01    4x,2.4x
INFOME__ D01    
MKM_____ 001    4x,2.4x
MKM_____ 003    4x,2.4x
PHILIPS_ CD2    4x,2.4x
PHILIPS_ PD2    4x,2.4x
PRODISC  D01    2.4x
RICOHJPN D00    2.4x
RICOHJPN D01    2.4x
RICOHJPN D01    2.4x
RITEK___ D01    2.4x

Setting the burning speed to 3x sounds a bit strange too, it should be either 2.4x or 4x … what burning software are you using?[/QUOTE]
ImgBurner.
And I think I have very good news! It just passed layer break and i was holding my breath and it continued normally - the speed went back to 2.4x and device buffer stays at 98%-100% :iagree:
I am using Mitsubishi Chemicals [B]MKM 003[/B] DVD+R DL 8.5GB discs (not exactly verbs but they are basically the same). Anyhow - if this really completes 100%, I will thank you again :slight_smile:

Oh btw, how did you get that list of supported media? - Edit: never mind, i already found out how and i can see my fw’s media list now. Very nice indeed :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=Andycos;2298963]ImgBurner.
And I think I have very good news! It just passed layer break and i was holding my breath and it continued normally - the speed went back to 2.4x and device buffer stays at 98%-100% :iagree:
I am using Mitsubishi Chemicals [B]MKM 003[/B] DVD+R DL 8.5GB discs (not exactly verbs but they are basically the same). Anyhow - if this really completes 100%, I will thank you again :slight_smile:

Oh btw, how did you get that list of supported media?[/QUOTE]

I just posted an edit:

EDIT: Just noticed that you’re using ImgBurn … and the media seems to be normal MKM 003 … strange … maybe try another burning software?

Try to use DVDIdentifier and have a look at the “Drive Capabilities on This Disc” tab and see what it reports … if it says 4x there might be an issue with ImgBurn I suppose …

For the supported media list you can use MCSE, but you’ll have to first extract the flasher and the firmware from the exe file with WinRAR. That should give you two files: the flasher (UPK16VAD_GUI.exe) and the firmware (S6127168.110). Then you can load the S6127168.110 file into MCSE and do an “Export Media Codes”.

It burned 100% successfully, verifyed successfully - everything seems well. I’ll have more time to test for errors with nero disc info tomorrow.
But until then, thanks again cvs :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=Andycos;2298979]It burned 100% successfully, verifyed successfully - everything seems well. I’ll have more time to test for errors with nero disc info tomorrow.
But until then, thanks again cvs :)[/QUOTE]

That’s great! Another drive freed from its shackles :wink:

No problem, my pleasure, I’m a crossflashing freak after all, you know … :bigsmile:

I just ran these discs through kprobe and unfortunanetly it doesn’t look so good. Not good at all i think…
Burned with Pioneer DVR-K16M 1.10fw 2x:

Burned with TSST TS-L632M SC02 2x:

[QUOTE=Andycos;2299141]I just ran these discs through kprobe and unfortunanetly it doesn’t look so good. Not good at all i think…
[/QUOTE]

You can’t put much fate in a Samsung drive quality scan really, and probably even less in a slim drive, but those scans are actually not that bad for a slim drive …

Also the scanning speed seems to be different for the two discs (one seems to be 2x the other one is set to Max), so you can’t quite compare the two burns, but as they look now, the Pioneer burn is better than the Samsung one (less PIFs which is the more important aspect of the two).

I would suspect if you do a transfer rate test both discs will be read without any slowdowns which is good news.

By the way, firmware SC03 is available for the TS-L632N :wink:

I ran pioneer burned disc through TRT and this is the result:

Then I took an older disc and ran it through kprobe to compare, so this disc was burned with pioneer K16 with old 1.15 firmware and the media was Verbatim DL 8x DVD (MKM 003):

By looking at the data shown on the program, they are identical media but for some reason the mitsubishi media didnt even want to work without updating my pioneer firmware. This is very odd…

[QUOTE=Andycos;2299198]
By looking at the data shown on the program, they are identical media but for some reason the mitsubishi media didnt even want to work without updating my pioneer firmware. This is very odd…[/QUOTE]

Have a look in DiscSpeed’s “Disc Info” tab and see if they are the same revision … if they are, it might be that the quality of the current discs you’re using is lower … quite often it depends of where they are made too (Taiwan, India, Singapore) …

This is all I could get.
Mitsubishi:

Nero DiscSpeed: Disc Info
Basic Information
 Disc type:           : DVD-ROM
 Capacity:            : 7.05 GB
                      : 7222 MB
                      : 7572881408 bytes
Extended Information
 Layers               : 2
 Layer break          : 3.65 GB
 Track path           : OTP
 Copyright protection : n/a
 Region(s)            : All
Raw Data
Physical Format Information (00h)
0000 - 01 01 32 10 00 03 00 00 00 FB 04 DF 00 20 33 9F - ..2...........3.
0010 - 00 00 03 4D 4B 4D 00 00 00 00 00 30 30 33 00 40 - ...MKM.....003.@

Verbatim:

Nero DiscSpeed: Disc Info
Basic Information
 Disc type:           : DVD-ROM
 Capacity:            : 7.30 GB
                      : 7475 MB
                      : 7838695424 bytes
Extended Information
 Layers               : 2
 Layer break          : 3.65 GB
 Track path           : OTP
 Copyright protection : n/a
 Region(s)            : All
Raw Data
Physical Format Information (00h)
0000 - 01 01 32 10 00 03 00 00 00 FC FF DF 00 20 33 9F - ..2...........3.
0010 - 00 00 03 4D 4B 4D 00 00 00 00 00 30 30 33 00 40 - ...MKM.....003.@

Edit: I just ran Discspeed’s “scandisc” with these results:

Well, they both seem to have an identical MID, so the only other explanation for the differences, is the quality of the Mitsubishi media. It may be because its made in a different factory or simply because Mitsubishi media is not as good quality as Verbatim, or you might have just got a poor batch …

It seems that the old firmware could not cope with the poorer quality media and it will fail at layer transition, while the new firmware has an improved writing strategy which can cope better with this poorer quality media.

It looks to me like it is a media problem so there’s not much else you could do other than get better media … firmware updates can only help to a certain degree but if the media is not quite as good as it should be no firmware update can fix that.

Maybe an external USB desktop drive would be able to make better use of this media …