DVDCopy3, DVD Shrink, and others

vbimport

#1

DVDCopy3 from InterVideo has one of the best encoding programs available. Though the program is a bit lacking in the ability to edit, the program does such a good job of encoding, it gives a superior picture even at higher compression levels. Some people complain about not being able to edit out DTS audio which takes up a few hundred MB of space. With Copy3 that is no great loss when you compare it to the quality of an encoded backup by DVD Shrink with those files removed. The slight difference in compression gives DVD Shrink no advantage when it comes to the end product. The difference is in the quality of the encoding segment of the software. Don’t take my word, view some of the recorded video yourself using the trial.

I’m not a pixel counter, but I’ve done a lot of movies and I understand compression percentages. I also know what looks good on my big screen TV. I can honestly say that DVDCopy3 does as good or better than DVD Shrink and in a fraction of the time with fewer editing hassles. One just needs to pay attention to the system requirements and don’t think because a system meets minimum requirements it will do a good job. I suggest the recommended requirements be met by anyone wanting to do a good evaluation. Any computer thats not an antique should easily come close to or exceed the recommended specs. The trial for DVDCopy3 can be downloaded at http://www.intervideo.com . No one needs to take my word. Just do a few backups with the program and make up your own mind. This program and RB/CCE are my main “go to” programs when it comes to doing back ups. RB/CCE is the choice for high compression on the big movies, but for the majority of the work, DVDCopy3 does the job well.


#2

OK, since this program does not bypass copy protection will it burn a movie after copy protection is removed by DVD decrypter?


#3

The DTS sound-track takes up around 600Mb on average. That’s a significant impact on quality for the main movie no matter what transcoder/encoder you use. Unless you have an absolute need for the DTS sound-track it’s best removed in my opinion. :slight_smile:

Regards

TZ


#4

The same with AC 3/2…about 150 MB. Most quality “shrink” programs will allow the user to remove DTS, AC 3/2, and subtitles. Unfortunately, Intervideo’s DVDCopy 3 does not remove these unchecked items from the final output file. The result? Much higher compression with the main video title than its competitors CloneDVD, Recode, and Shrink.

The purpose of a transcoder is to remove data from the video title that it believe to be non-visible to the naked eye. Note that the audio tracks remain undisturbed. Since DVDCopy 3 does not strip DTS and AC 3/2 from the final compilation, its transcoder must remove an ADDITIONAL 700 to 800 MB of data from the video title (average 2 hr movie) to fit to a DVD-5 disc. Bottomline, why remove an ADDITIONAL 20% of data from the video title when it is not necessary???

If we include the DTS and AC 3/2 audio titles with the other shrink programs, then DVDCopy 3 MAY come out on top. However, only NOOBS would want to transfer EVERYTHING from a DVD-9 to a DVD-5. This will ALWAYS result in a longer transcoding time and a lower quality picture.

As end users, we always want to believe that there exist a product that could outperform all other competitors. Since audio/video can be very subjective, we rely on the “experts” to recommend a “superior” product. In the case of DVDCopy 3, the numbers don’t add-up. How can a product provide better video quality when it must remove 20% more data from the main video title? Could it be that DVDCopy spends more $ in advertising? Cough, cough…


#5

First of all the bean counters are talking about editing files and file sizes. I just did a check on the DVD “Up The Creek”. The main 5.1 surround sound track was about 400 MB. 700MB would have to be a monster length musical. Seriously, there may be some that large, but they’re not the norm. Now that is the sound track that we want to keep in our language choice. Then there is the editing option of deleting foreign languages. Sound tracks are broken into segments for the various chapters. If one deletes unwanted chapters the unwanted sound track goes with it. So, I don’t see where this simple editing scheme is a problem. No way is it leaving in the large unwanted audio files mentioned here. So if one chooses the movie only selection and edits out the foreign language tracks and the subtitles, then there is very little unwanted material left. Anyone who doesn’t believe it, do the recording as mentioned and then check the audio track. What marvelous software programs are going to do better? Compare the finished product of DVDCopy3 with that from DVD Shrink, CloneDVD2 or one of the other programs.


#6

hoser d
The DVDCopy3 will work with files ripped with DVD Decrypter or any other quality ripper. It works with programs like AnyDVD as well.


#7

furballi

The same with AC 3/2…about 150 MB. Most quality “shrink” programs will allow the user to remove DTS, AC 3/2, and subtitles. Unfortunately, Intervideo’s DVDCopy 3 does not remove these unchecked items from the final output file. The result? Much higher compression with the main video title than its competitors CloneDVD, Recode, and Shrink.

The purpose of a transcoder is to remove data from the video title that it believe to be non-visible to the naked eye. Note that the audio tracks remain undisturbed. Since DVDCopy 3 does not strip DTS and AC 3/2 from the final compilation, its transcoder must remove an ADDITIONAL 700 to 800 MB of data from the video title (average 2 hr movie) to fit to a DVD-5 disc. Bottomline, why remove an ADDITIONAL 20% of data from the video title when it is not necessary???

If we include the DTS and AC 3/2 audio titles with the other shrink programs, then DVDCopy 3 MAY come out on top. However, only NOOBS would want to transfer EVERYTHING from a DVD-9 to a DVD-5. This will ALWAYS result in a longer transcoding time and a lower quality picture.

As end users, we always want to believe that there exist a product that could outperform all other competitors. Since audio/video can be very subjective, we rely on the “experts” to recommend a “superior” product. In the case of DVDCopy 3, the numbers don’t add-up. How can a product provide better video quality when it must remove 20% more data from the main video title? Could it be that DVDCopy spends more $ in advertising? Cough, cough…

With the movie only selection you only keep the sound track for that section. If you notice, DVDCopy3 does have the sound track broken down to the different chapters. So, one only keeps the sound in the language of choice and the sound for unwanted chapters is deleted. Seems you didn’t pay close attention to the options. Go back and try it again and then compare the completed product with the encoder of your choice.

However, only NOOBS would want to transfer EVERYTHING from a DVD-9 to a DVD-5.
Wander over to AfterDawn and take some lessons. Other than the foreign language tracks, there are many times I want to record the entire disc. I have the software to do it. As I said, up to about 7.5GB content total, DVDCopy3 does an excellent job. When the compression starts getting near 60% I use Rebuilder with Cinema Craft Encoder (RB/CCE). I’ve done movies with that encoder setup and the copy is indistinguishable from the original (viewed on a 60 inch screen and up to 300% magnification).

I’m not talking about playing with numbers. Get in there and do the actual test and view the finished product. Here are the programs I currently have:
CCE
Rebuilder
DVDCopy3
CloneDVD2
Recode2 (Nero)
DVD Shrink
XCopy
DVD Santa
Dr. DivX
VSO DivX to DVD

DVD Decrypter
AnyDVD

DVD Lab Pro
DVDReMake
CopyToDVD
Blindwrite
Pinnacle IC8
Instant CD/DVD
Alcohol 120%
Nero
Roxio

Quick inventory and I may have left out some things like the WinDVD6 player and other codecs and utilities. The point is, I have a library of software to choose from and know how to use it. My main “go to” choices for quality DVD backup are DVDCopy3 and the RB/CCE programs.

The proof is in the end product. Furballi, the answer to your question

How can a product provide better video quality when it must remove 20% more data from the main video title?
is simple, A Better Encoder. Part of the question was erroneous though. You keep adding those 20% figures and 700MB tracks and it just isn’t true. Granted it doesn’t trim down the finished product like DVDReMake or Lab Pro, but then how many do? If I needed to, I have the editing tools to do the task, and I don’t find them necessary. I wonder if you’ve actually done many recordings with DVDCopy3. If you had, you would have seen the quality.

furballi… I pointed out that one should use a PC with the recommended requirements to do an honest evaluation. You said you had a P3 with 600MHz (barely meeting minimum requirements). Plus what OS are you using on your P3? XP would have it dragging and 98 doesn’t meet the requirements of DVDCopy3. You were complaining about program file sizes and updates I find curious. DirectX9 is just an update, not something to complain about (normal windows update item). I have a lot of programs larger than DVDCopy3 which is about 48MB. Instant CD/DVD suite is about 510MB. Which leads me to wonder about the capacity of the machine you’re trying to record DVD with. The media my look the same, but it takes a lot more to record DVD than CD. DVD Shrink is one of the programs that caters to older operating systems. So for older systems, Shrink is probably the way to go. Most of the newer programs are written with the NTFS file system in mind, not the old FAT32.

In the end, I’m not advertising for anyone. If they’d pay me I might. Shrink is good and I’m not putting it down. I just prefer DVDCopy3 for it’s speed and video quality. I don’t want anyone to take my word for it. Believe your own eyes. Go to http://www.intervideo.com and download the trial and give it a good work out. It doesn’t cost anything to try and they let you use the full function Platinum for the trial. Just give it an honest evaluation and pay attention to the recommended system requirements. Minimum requirements can lead to minimum usability and minimal results in some cases.


#8

DTS is always bigger than AC 3/6…600 to 700 MB for an average 2 hr movie. Anyone can verify this! DTS English is often included with AC 3/6 English on modern blockbuster movies. Again, DVDCopy 3 DOES NOT REMOVE the DTS English sound track, even in MOVIE ONLY mode. And most people only edit the first and last chapters of the main movie title. If you remove all the chapters with the intention of removing the DTS sound track, then you AIN’T got nothing to watch! What kind of DING DONG logic are you trying to propagate?

Since we’re talking about the soundtrack, why didn’t DVDCopy 3 distinguish between AC 3/6, AC 3/2, and DTS audio? If I go the the main title and uncheck the audio with DTS, then DTS should be removed from ALL the chapters in this main title. I shouldn’t have to open up each chapter (could be 30 to 50 depending on movie) to remove what I believe to be the DTS audio.

I don’t waste my valuable time with rebuilding the DVD. I can afford another blank DVD and don’t mind switching disc. In the future, I could still merge the two DVDs to a large media, thus maintaining perfect resolution.

Go and sell your snake oil to others. Enuff said on this topic.


#9

I was referring to keeping the DTS track as it will play stereo and surround sound both. 400 MB on the movie, Without a Paddle as compared to about 175MB for the AC3 stereo track. That’s only a difference of 225MB and as I said, I’ve never seen that small difference effect the outcome in quality of a DVD recording on a DVD5 disc. I said no one is normally going to remove the main sound track. You could save that big 225 MB by deleting the entire sound and just read the subtitles.

I don’t know where you’re getting your figures. I just checked the DTS track on Sky Captian and it was about 350 MB. That’s about 12% of total space of a DVD5 for comparison sake. You want to talk numbers, looking at the numbers from that point of view, approximately 6% of the total space is given up for the extra sound. That is a pitifully small percentage of the overall space.

The tracks I was referring to being removed was with trailers and various extras, I don’t edit the movie itself. If you’re going so far as to edit the chapters in the main movie, you have one crappy encoder or setup. Stop being a bean counter and stop saying what shouldn’t happen and do what a bunch of sensible people did; try the program out on a PC recommended to use the program and then view the end results. (Counting numbers I showed you what a pitifully small portion of the DVD5 is given to the audio track.) I used the program and recorded and I’m fond of the end quality. But as I said, for better quality, use Rebuilder with CCE. With the programs I use, I don’t have to go through the hassle of doing all the editing you mention, nor is it needed. The quality is there and I don’t have to count pixels to see it.

When a better program comes along, I’ll move on to it. I have no great love for any one program. I use what’s best at the time. They’re tools and I’m not paid to advertise any of them; nor do I need to get on a crusade of playing with numbers to try to prove something either good or bad. One thing I learned from the professionals, a discerning eye can be better than a meter and video quality is best evaluated by the human eye.


#10

I don’t waste my valuable time with rebuilding the DVD. I can afford another blank DVD and don’t mind switching disc. In the future, I could still merge the two DVDs to a large media, thus maintaining perfect resolution.

Go and sell your snake oil to others. Enuff said on this topic.

From what you said elsewhere, you waste a lot of time with a crappy old PC that won’t even run a modern program. If it does, as you said before, you use your PC and at the end of the day you have a movie (and probably a piece of crap at that). You wasted your time playing with numbers and in the end I showed what a pitifully small percentage of the total space you were complaining about. Your asinine behavior is one thing and your trying to use math to prove something that can be seen with the eye is ridiculous. I don’t know what you’re trying to feed people, but I hope they use some good sense and avoid you like the plague. I said don’t believe me, do the test on the software. http://www.intervideo.com I’m not being paid anything for it. I just hate to see a know it all like you running around badmouthing things to look intelligent. If you were serious about anything other than posturing, you’d get some decent equipment and test some of these programs instead of spouting some meaningless numbers to try to prove a petty point.

My advice is not to take my word or that of furballi, do the trial and decide for yourselves. That’s the common sense advice I often give because a lot of programs are just a matter of choice.

Go and sell your snake oil to others. Enuff said on this topic.

Hopefully furballi, you’ll take your own advice, you’re too full of yourself, or is that of it?


#11

I don’t waste my valuable time with rebuilding the DVD. I can afford another blank DVD and don’t mind switching disc. In the future, I could still merge the two DVDs to a large media, thus maintaining perfect resolution.
Funny you said that. DVDCopy3 records to DVD9 as well as DVD5. So does Shrink and a bunch of other programs, so no advantage on that. DVDCopy3 will record to multiple disks without a bunch of work. Good rhetoric, but it was meaningless. You need to learn more about the software before doing evaluations on forums. Plus you need to invest in some equipment. However, you do waste your time trying to prove your brilliance.


#12

furballi

Bottomline, why remove an ADDITIONAL 20% of data from the video title when it is not necessary???
I mentioned that 20% being erroneous. Your numbers don’t jive. The two large recent movies I mentioned have DTS sound tracks of 400MB for Without a Paddle and 350MB for Sky Captain. That is nearer the average than the 700MB you state. (Only 750MB for 2 movies.) I concede there are some large tracks though, I Robot runs a little over 600MB, but then the AC3 is proportionally larger as well. You would want some sound so the AC3/2 track for the first movies mentioned are about 175MB. About half the size of the DTS track. So looking at the numbers, you’re looking at only 6% difference for the total 4.37GB of the DVD5 disc. Pitifully small to base your assertions on. Just straightening those numbers out you tried to use to make a point. Next time let’s hope you get it straight.


#13

alright, this topic’s gone far enough. thread closed.

Brobear: consider this a warning to keep it civilized from now on.