DVD Writer or Blu-Ray Reader/Writer For Reading Bad DVD's?

vbimport

#41

[QUOTE=meeshu;2784611]
LG GH24NSD1, firmware LG00, chipset Mediatek MT1862AN <- unreliable in copying failing data

[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Ibex;2784647]The poor performance of the (Mediatek-based) LG seems to confirm a suspicion that recent LG models are pretty junky. Shame, they used to make such good drives.[/QUOTE]

This seems to be a conscious decision on LG’s part, where they’ve designed the drive to continue reading even if the typical error correction algorithms fail. The data returned is, of course, junk, but it’s valid enough junk to not alert the system to any error. It’s marketed as Jamless Play, if our guesses here in the forums are any good.


#42

Thanks again for the comments!

Interesting, regarding the LG drives. The LG GGW-H20L seems to read reasonably well though (as far as known at this time). But, if by chance the finished ISO copy of the failing disc is still “faulty”, then the GGW-H20L might be eliminated from any future attempts at re-reading the failing disc again, as this drive might not be copying data correctly either(?)

By using IsoPuzzle, the settings I’ve enabled on it allow for tray cycling and also for drive “cool downs”. This means drives are rested and given a chance to cool down every now and then. I also rotate between the three drives (LG, LiteOn, Samsung) now and then.

Down to 59,878 missing sectors now. The SH-224GB drive being used at present is currently in cool down cycle as per IsoPuzzle setting.


#43

[QUOTE=meeshu;2784656]Thanks again for the comments!

Interesting, regarding the LG drives. The LG GGW-H20L seems to read reasonably well though (as far as known at this time). But, if by chance the finished ISO copy of the failing disc is still “faulty”, then the GGW-H20L might be eliminated from any future attempts at re-reading the failing disc again, as this drive might not be copying data correctly either(?)[/QUOTE]The introduction of Jamless Play seems to have come about with the switch to Mediatek chipsets (or just before it); the GGW-H20L, being a few generations before that switch, should be fine & follow in the footsteps of earlier LG drives which did extract data somewhat faithfully.


#44

OK. Thanks.

I wasn’t sure which LG drives use the “Jamless Play” feature as a quick online search didn’t provide definite details of which LG drives do and don’t have this feature.


#45

[QUOTE=meeshu;2784658]OK. Thanks.

I wasn’t sure which LG drives use the “Jamless Play” feature as a quick online search didn’t provide definite details of which LG drives do and don’t have this feature.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, there’s no table for that. I just noticed that it began to creep in around the time the 12x BD-RE drives (BH12) came about, possibly with the 10x (BH10) models. The switch to MediaTek happenend with 14x BD-RE drives (BH14).

As for LG’s DVD-RW drives, GH24NS70 and beyond – maybe as early as the 24NS50 – seem to have Jamless Play. The switch to MediaTek happenend shortly thereafter, with 24NS90.

That’s not to say the feature didn’t sneak in before the official name came about, but given your experience, I’d say the earlier tendency of LG drives to read cruddy discs but fail if things got too rough is something different.


#46

[QUOTE=Albert;2784655]This seems to be a conscious decision on LG’s part, where they’ve designed the drive to continue reading even if the typical error correction algorithms fail. The data returned is, of course, junk, but it’s valid enough junk to not alert the system to any error. It’s marketed as Jamless Play, if our guesses here in the forums are any good.[/QUOTE]
A very interesting and valid point. :clap::flower:

They’re probably working on the principle that if you’re watching a video timing is more desirable than accuracy. Better for the drive to let a few errors through and keep the action going, rather than stop and re-read.

But it still amazes me how this particular sector of the IT market manages to come up with so many fancy brand names for non-features, or things all drives do to some extent.


#47

The information on “Jamless Play” is quite valuable, as I was seriously considering getting another later model LG drive. But since the latest model LG drives seem to have this Jamless Play feature, then it would be a waste of time and money getting a later model LG drive as it would not read failing data properly.

However, I am still looking at getting an older model LG drive which doesn’t (or shouldn’t?) have the Jamless Play feature, so it should be able to read failing data more reliably. Also looking at another brand of drive, an older model, which might help in reading data from the failing disc.

The three drives currently being used (GGW-H20L, SH-224GB, iHAS324 C) are starting to struggle a bit to read further data from the failing disc. The Samsung SH-224GB seems to read data a bit faster/better than the other two drives at the moment.

Now down to 47,086 missing sectors remaining to (re)read by the drives.


#48

Brief update.

Now down to 33,673 missing sectors. Successful reading progress is slow, despite cleaning the disc once again using the “toothpaste” procedure. Don’t believe cleaning again was really necessary, as there was very little sign of remaining scuff marks, and there were no obvious signs of any other marks. But I cleaned again anyway to see if that helped; but it didn’t seem to help in the end.

Problem in reading disc seems to be mostly (if not entirely) due to failing media. There is very little or nothing in the way of scuff marks. Although there are very minor scratch marks near the periphery of the disc, they shouldn’t effect reading(?)

Based on performance so far, the best drives for reading this failing DVD disc have been rearranged, with the best drive at top and worst at bottom of list.

Samsung SH-224GB, firmware SB00, chipset Mediatek MT1862AN

LiteOn iHAS324 C, firmware LL14, chipset Mediatek MT1809LN

LG GGW-H20L, firmware YL05, chipset Renesas R8J32702SFPV

LiteOn iHAS124 F, firmware CL99, chipset Mediatek MT1862N

LiteOn iHAS324 B, firmware AL14, chipset Mediatek MT1839LN

Asus DVD-E818A9T b, firmware 3.00, chipset Mediatek ???

Plextor PX-891SAF, firmware ???, chipset Mediatek MT1862N

Toshiba SD-H802A, firmware HP10, chipset Toshiba TC94A68FG

Optiarc AD-7200A, firmware 1.09, chipset NEC MC-10043

Pioneer DVR-215, firmware 1.22, chipset NEC MC-10042

LG GH24NSD1, firmware LG00, chipset Mediatek MT1862AN <- unreliable in copying failing data properly

Currently considering three different make/model drives to purchase, when funds allow, as the present three drives (iHAS324 C, SH-224GB, and GGW-H20L) are struggling to read further data off the failing DVD.


#49

Recently got the LG GWA-4165B writer. This drive is currently being used to scan the failing DVD. The GWA-4165B drive has been running for about 4 hours now.

The number of missing sectors reported by IsoPuzzle was around 700,000 after brief scans using the Optiarc AD-7200A and Toshiba SD-H802A drives previously. So far the number of missing sectors has been reduced to around 331,000 by using the GWA-4165B drive.

Failing DVD reading progress is relatively slow. It was hoped the GWA-4165B drive would read the DVD data faster, but it appears not to be the case. :frowning:

So the list of drives used to read the failing DVD has now been updated and revised to include the GWA-4165B drive.

Approximate order of drives with best reading drive at the top, and worst drive at the bottom of this list.

Samsung SH-224GB, firmware SB00, chipset Mediatek MT1862AN

LiteOn iHAS324 C, firmware LL14, chipset Mediatek MT1809LN

LiteOn iHAS124 F, firmware CL99, chipset Mediatek MT1862N <- Selling

LiteOn iHAS324 B, firmware AL14, chipset Mediatek MT1839LN

LG GGW-H20L, firmware YL05, chipset Renesas R8J32702SFPV <- Selling

LG GWA-4165B, firmware DG01, chipset Renesas R8J32007FPV

Asus DVD-E818A9T b, firmware 3.00, chipset Mediatek ???

Plextor PX-891SAF, firmware ???, chipset Mediatek MT1862N <- Sold

Toshiba SD-H802A, firmware HP10, chipset Toshiba TC94A68FG <- Selling

Optiarc AD-7200A, firmware 1.09, chipset NEC MC-10043

Pioneer DVR-215, firmware 1.22, chipset NEC MC-10042

LG GH24NSD1, firmware LG00, chipset Mediatek MT1862AN <- unreliable in copying failing data properly! <- Selling

Still looking at getting 2 or 3 other drives when funds allow.


#50

Glad to hear you are making progress, however slowly.

Have you tried a Panasonic-based drive yet? They can be very good with damaged CDs.


#51

I haven’t got a Panasonic drive (yet). Still looking into getting one though.

It should be made clear that my backup computer is the one with the iHAS324 B, DVD-818A9T b, GWA-4165B, and AD-7200A drives. The number of missing sectors (as reported by IsoPuzzle) has been reduced to 305,000 using the GWA-4165B drive with the failing DVD on the backup computer.

My main computer has GGW-H20L, iHAS324 C, and SH-224GB drives. The number of missing sectors from the failing DVD when used on my main computer is now down to around 27,000, but progress is extremely slow using drives iHAS324 C and SH-224GB.

Although the LG drive GGW-H20L reads the failing DVD fairly well, it is not quite as good as the iHAS324 C and SH-224GB drives. And although the GGW-H20L is the only drive I have that reads and writes Blu-ray discs, I don’t really need this drive as I don’t have any or need Blu-ray discs. So the GGW-H20L is for sale (hopefully, since optical drive demand has fallen off considerably).


#52

Regarding “Panasonic” drives.

Are we looking at Panasonic branded drives, or drives with the Panasonic chipset (MN . . ), or both?

Any specific models that should be considered, and/or models that should be avoided?


#53

[QUOTE=Ibex;2785735]
Have you tried a Panasonic[B]-based[/B] drive yet?[/QUOTE]
So primarily the LG drives, but also a few others such as Benq DW1670.

The current Panasonic full size drive (SW830) is Mediatek based. It’s appearance is remarkably similar to the latest LG & (QSI-made) Pioneer drives, so draw your own conclusions.

The only other Panasonic-branded drives you are likely to find are the old DVD-RAM drives and ancient 1990s DVD-Rom drives. Matsushita (Panasonic) slim-type DVD writers are everywhere. They’re widely despised as writers (although I have seen some good results) and for their strict implementation of DVD regional coding & lack of firmware updates. Don’t know what they’re like as DVD readers. Might be worth a try as they can be very cheap - most of the cheap generic external slim drives on Ebay contain Matsushita drives. Slim drives are not necessarily inferior to full-size drives. The Panasonic-based drive I used most for audio extraction was an LG DVD/CD-RW combo drive in a 2004/05 HP laptop - it was a superb CD ripper & writer.


#54

OK. I now have several other drives in mind for future testing.

In the meantime, a reading test from start of the failing DVD was done using all my drives to get a better idea of which drives seem to be best at reading the failing data. Number of remaining sectors to be read from the failing DVD was noted at 30, 45, and 60 minutes into the reads.

The drives with the least amount of sectors remaining to be read reported (according to IsoPuzzle) are considered to be the best reading drives.

So the drive list has been updated in order of best reading drive first, and worst drive last (with some interesting and surprising results!!) -

Samsung SH-224GB

Asus DVD-E818A9T

LiteOn iHAS324 B

LiteOn iHAS324 C

LG GGW-H20L

PLextor PX-892SAF <- didn’t actually test this drive as I sold it, but its previous performance was somewhere between the iHAS324 C and the iHAS124 F drives

LiteOn iHAS124 F

LG GWA -4165B

Pioneer DVR-215

Toshiba SD-H802A <- this drive failed to read DVD after testing for awhile and is now faulty!

Optiarc AD-7200A

LG GH24NSD1 <- not tested again, as it doesn’t read failing data properly

It was observed that the number of remaining sectors to be read varied when using the same drive to repeat the test! This variance in remaining sectors is probably largely due to the “randomness” of which remaining sectors are re-read by using IsoPuzzle. Some sectors are more readily read than others depending on how deteriorated the media is containing the sectors.


#55

[QUOTE=meeshu;2785764]Regarding “Panasonic” drives.

Are we looking at Panasonic branded drives, or drives with the Panasonic chipset (MN . . ), or both?[/QUOTE]

So far the only LG drives I have used over the years which do NOT have “jamless play”, are old ones with the Panasonic chipsets MN…

Though not exhaustive, the LG drives I have used which had Renasas and Mediatek chipsets, seem to be have “jamless play” by default.

I looked into the behavior of the “jamless play” in action in a previous thread on the LG subforum here:

In this thread ^, I refer to the “jamless play” as “fatal reading behavior”. :smiley:


#56

[QUOTE=Ibex;2785768]

The only other Panasonic-branded drives you are likely to find are the old DVD-RAM drives and ancient 1990s DVD-Rom drives. Matsushita (Panasonic) slim-type DVD writers are everywhere. They’re widely despised as writers (although I have seen some good results) and for their strict implementation of DVD regional coding & lack of firmware updates. Don’t know what they’re like as DVD readers. Might be worth a try as they can be very cheap - most of the cheap generic external slim drives on Ebay contain Matsushita drives. Slim drives are not necessarily inferior to full-size drives. The Panasonic-based drive I used most for audio extraction was an LG DVD/CD-RW combo drive in a 2004/05 HP laptop - it was a superb CD ripper & writer.[/QUOTE]

I have two Matsushita drives, which came as the default drives in low end desktop computers. (Windows 8 and 10 machines).

The really annoying thing about them is that both drives are riplocked, when it comes to ripping movie dvd discs.


#57

[QUOTE=meeshu;2785732]LG GH24NSD1, [I]firmware[/I] LG00, [I]chipset[/I] Mediatek MT1862AN <- unreliable in copying failing data properly! <- [B][I]Selling[/I][/B][/QUOTE]

In general, I never use IsoPuzzle with any Renasas or Mediatek LG dvdr drives, largely due to the “jamless play” feature.

I’m only willing to use the ancient DvdDecrypter program on LG drives with a Mediatek chipset (such as GH24NSC0 or GH24NSCD0). This is largely due to DvdDecrypter telling you if mpeg2 headers are missing from sectors in the middle of a *.VOB file.

Most of the junk data that LG’s “jamless play” spews out, is either a sector with all zeros, or a sector with random data without an mpeg2 header. (As far as I can tell). DvdDecrypter will produce an error message when it encounters such junk sectors within a *.VOB file.


#58

Comments noted thanks!

Stopped trying to read further data off the failing DVD awhile ago (using SH-224GB and iHAS324 C drives) as retrieving data is now extremely slow, with about 26,000+ sectors remaining to be processed.

Unfortunately, at this stage it is suspected that (most of) the remaining sectors may not be able to be successfully read (using my durrent drives), and the data may be irretrievable(?)

However, I still have several other drives in mind for future testing (including LG drives with the Panasonic chipset) which might help in reading the remaining 26,000+ sectors. But getting those drives will have to wait until I am in a position to purchase them, which may not be for several weeks or months(?)


#59

[QUOTE=meeshu;2786686]
However, I still have several other drives in mind for future testing (including LG drives with the Panasonic chipset) which [I]might[/I] help in reading the remaining 26,000+ sectors.[/QUOTE]

Back in the day, I used an LG with a Panasonic MN… chipset to rip various problematic audio cds and some then-current cd releases which had annoying drm which prevented easy ripping. Excluding my Plextor and LG drives at the time (circa early-mid 2000s), most other cdr (or dvdr) drives couldn’t easily handle these particular problematic cd discs in those days.

Years later I found out this same LG Panasonic MN… chipset drive could also handle some of my problematic dvds, which my then-current 2009 era LiteOn dvdr drive couldn’t handle easily.

Fast forward to the present day, modern drives such as LiteOn iHAS124 F or Samsung SH-224FB (or SH-224GB) perform much better on my problematic cd and dvd discs than this old LG Panasonic MN… chipset drive. So I don’t really use this older LG drive as much anymore.


#60

Also nowadays if I come across an older problematic disc from my collection, I will frequently just buy a new copy if it is $10 or less, instead of trying to “salvage” it with isopuzzle.

More generally whenever I buy a new cd/dvd/bluray disc, I immediately check it on the computer when I get home, to see whether there are any bad sectors due to manufacturing defects. Occasionally I do come across newly purchased discs with manufacturing defects, for which they go back to the store for an exchange (or refund).

My primary workhorse drives for checking/ripping new cd and dvd discs are LiteOn iHAS124F with CL9F firmware, and Samsung SH-224FB (or SH-224GB) for double-sided flipper discs and stuff released by bottom feeder movie companies such as Mill Creek, Echo Bridge, etc …

For discs which I have already checked previously, I primarily use my current LG drives (GH24NSC0 svc code:nsd0) for ripping them subsequent times. (I only use my LiteOn and Samsung drives for first checks on newly purchased discs).