DVD Rebuilder/CCE - stuttering playback on standalone player

vbimport

#1

Overview of problem:

Been struggling to backup The Shawshank Redemption Region 2 Disc 1 for some time.
When I play two specific scenes on my Panasonic standalone DVD player, the playback stutters into slow motion causing audio to drop out but eventually recovers back to normal.

The two scenes are:

Scene 1
In the chapter that starts with Andy receiving books and a $200 cheque for his library project, there is a scene where he plays “Duettino - Sull’aria” from the opera “The Marriage of Figaro” over the prison PA system. The camera pans up and over the prison ground with all the inmates looking at the tannoy in awe of the beautiful music. At the start of the panning the playback problems begin and end shortly after the scene changes back to the warden’s office.

Scene 2
In the chapter that begins with the inmates constructing the prison library, the problem scene is where a local contractor bribes warden Samuel Norton not to bid for the new highway contract otherwise the contractor would go out of business. The problems begin just as the camera pans across following the contractor and Norton into discussion about the contract. They end shortly after the panning stops.

The original DVD is 7.71Gb in size. Initially I used VobBlanker version 2.0.0.2 to remove 1.84Gb comprising copyright warnings, theatrical trailer then converted motion menus to stills. No further pre-processing was done.
This material was passed to DVD Rebuilder using Cinemacraft Encoder Trial version 2.67.00.23. DVD Rebuilder version is 0.89 beta. It was setup using Rockas Installer and the correct version of CCE was specified during install.

*** The DVD Rebuilder ECL file is shown at the end along with screen captures of Bitrate Viewer output for the problem areas. These areas were located with DVDLab Pro bitrate viewer, then checked against Teco Ltd’s Bitrate Viewer version 1.5.054 before being included here.

After encountering the playback problems I thought it may be a media issue and tried Ritek (GO5) along with various other brands of DVD-R blanks but still the exact same problems.
Media problems excluded, I tried using VobBlanker to produce a DVD with blank chapters all except the problematic two; obviously no encoding was performed. These played back perfectly on whatever DVD-R blank used.
I searched online specifically Doom9 and discovered an article about stuttering playback problems and among the forum responses settings for VBR Bias and Quality Prec (Quantizer Characteristics) were discussed. I set those according to the advice, intially using 35 for VBR Bias and 20 for Quality Prec. This still produced the same playback problems.
The next attempt was to alter the min/max VBR bitrate from the standard 500/8552kbits/sec to 300/8000kbits/sec; again as per advice. Had no effect on the problems.
Through gritted teeth I resorted to DVD Shrink and had no playback problems but the quality took a significant knock compared to CCE encoding.

So in short I’ve excluded media issues and VobBlanker pre-processing. The next step will be to re-encode the two chapters manually without Rebuilder only to exclude Rebuilder being the problem; I’ll update the post with the outcome. I’m convinced it’s something to do with CCE encoding settings. It is obviously something to do with the sustained high bitrates required during these two scenes. Perhaps experts can help out as I’ve ran dry on options.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Regards

TigerZai

; Cinema Craft Encoder SP -- Encoder Control List
; Created by DVD Rebuilder

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vid_file0=E:\WORKING\D2VAVS\V01001000001011.m2v
vid_file1=E:\WORKING\D2VAVS\V01001000001011.m2v
vid_out=1
vaf_out=1
opv_q_factor=20
opv_brate_min=300
opv_brate_max=8000
vbr_bias=40
vbr_pass=1
use_filter=0
filter_val=6
non_linear=1
top_first=0
mpeg1=0
mpeg1_cps=1

[file]
name=E:\WORKING\D2VAVS\V01001000001011.avs
frame_first=0
frame_last=7179
encode_first=0
encode_last=7179

[item]
title=V01001100001012
aud_out=0
vaf_file=E:\WORKING\D2VAVS\V01001100001012.vaf
aud_file=E:\WORKING\D2VAVS\V01001100001012.mpa
file_focused=0
packet_size=2048
width=720
height=576
frame_rate_idx=3
cbr_brate=6000
vbr_brate_avg=4601
vbr_brate_min=300
vbr_brate_max=8000
seq_endcode=0
dvd=0
half_width=0
half_height=0
lum_level=0
adjust_q_matrix=0
aspect_ratio=3
gop_m=3
gop_nm=4
gop_hdr=12
seq_hdr=1
all_closed_gop=0
fix_gop_length=0
samples_per_sec=44100
stereo=2
brate_idx=7
crc=1
progressive=1
alternate_scan=0
intra_dc_prec=2
aud_mode=0
tc_ref_frm=0
drop_frame=0
fix_vbv_delay=0
letter_box=0
pulldown_detect=0
offset_line=0
create_new_vaf=1
credits_tweak=0
credits_start=0x00000
credits_brate=1000
h_filter=0
h_filter_idx=8
h_filter_idx=8
dither=0
dither_max=8
qmat_idx=0
quality_prec=20
timecode=0x0000000
video_type=4
vid_file0=E:\WORKING\D2VAVS\V01001100001012.m2v
vid_file1=E:\WORKING\D2VAVS\V01001100001012.m2v
vid_out=1
vaf_out=1
opv_q_factor=20
opv_brate_min=300
opv_brate_max=8000
vbr_bias=40
vbr_pass=1
use_filter=0
filter_val=6
non_linear=1
top_first=0
mpeg1=0
mpeg1_cps=1

[file]
name=E:\WORKING\D2VAVS\V01001100001012.avs
frame_first=0
frame_last=16302
encode_first=0
encode_last=16302

[item]
title=V01001200001013
aud_out=0
vaf_file=E:\WORKING\D2VAVS\V01001200001013.vaf
aud_file=E:\WORKING\D2VAVS\V01001200001013.mpa
file_focused=0
packet_size=2048
width=720
height=576
frame_rate_idx=3
cbr_brate=6000
vbr_brate_avg=4594
vbr_brate_min=300
vbr_brate_max=8000
seq_endcode=0
dvd=0
half_width=0
half_height=0
lum_level=0
adjust_q_matrix=0
aspect_ratio=3
gop_m=3
gop_nm=4
gop_hdr=12
seq_hdr=1
all_closed_gop=0
fix_gop_length=0
samples_per_sec=44100
stereo=2
brate_idx=7
crc=1
progressive=1
alternate_scan=0
intra_dc_prec=2
aud_mode=0
tc_ref_frm=0
drop_frame=0
fix_vbv_delay=0
letter_box=0
pulldown_detect=0
offset_line=0
create_new_vaf=1
credits_tweak=0
credits_start=0x00000
credits_brate=1000
h_filter=0
h_filter_idx=8
h_filter_idx=8
dither=0
dither_max=8
qmat_idx=0
quality_prec=20
timecode=0x0000000
video_type=4
vid_file0=E:\WORKING\D2VAVS\V01001200001013.m2v
vid_file1=E:\WORKING\D2VAVS\V01001200001013.m2v
vid_out=1
vaf_out=1
opv_q_factor=20
opv_brate_min=300
opv_brate_max=8000
vbr_bias=40
vbr_pass=1
use_filter=0
filter_val=6
non_linear=1
top_first=0
mpeg1=0
mpeg1_cps=1

[file]
name=E:\WORKING\D2VAVS\V01001200001013.avs
frame_first=0
frame_last=23867
encode_first=0
encode_last=23867

High bitrate area in first problem chapter…

…and the second one:


#2

Have you tried the discs on another player? You’re well under the 9.8 Mbps video bitrate limit but maybe it’s just your player. Something about DVDRB’s output it doesn’t like? As you’ve noted, panning scenes are demanding in terms of bitrate.

The advice you received is reasonable, but since it didn’t work, if anything I’d suspect the ECL, and not the settings in CCE. (Did anyone at Doom9 spot a problem in the ECL?) The encoder control list is generated by DVDRB, so…maybe try another version of DVDRB? The latest release is v0.91.

Good luck. BTW, I’m still using v0.52. :wink:


#3

Thanks fritzi93. It’s perplexing to say the least. I haven’t tried the output on any other player but the fact the untouched 2 chapters play back without problems speaks for itself. Haven’t got round to encoding the two chapters without Rebuilder yet, but if it works I’ll ask in the Rebuilder forum over at doom9.

Thanks

TZ


#4

It could also be caused by the particular brand/type of media your using. So what media, what burning speed and what burner are you using? Try burning at a lower speed and/or different media, even changing from -R to +R or the other way around.

I can assure you CCE can handle way above the bitrate of the 2 clips above, for example, try a CBR encode at 9500kbs data rate, results and playback are perfect :slight_smile:


#5

Thanks ChickenMan.

To narrow the search for the problem, I burned a disc containing only the two chapters that give the playback problems; the rest were removed using VobBlanker. Obviously no re-encoding was performed because with only two chapters on the disc and the menus, the content would fit on a DVD-R. Seems suspicious to me that when no re-encoding is done the two chapters play back perfectly on cheap-as-chips media and Ritek (GO5) blanks - that also excludes burn speed as the source of the problem too.

Never had issues with CCE previously and have backed up many discs successfully. I even thought it may have been the original disc at fault, but I can’t explain why the untouched chapters play back on arbitrary media. I still haven’t re-encoded manually to exclude Rebuilder yet because work has kept me busy. Once I do I’ll confirm whether or not it works doing it the hard way.

One thing I might also do is a complete re-install to exclude bad system setup.

Many thanks

TigerZai


#6

Sorry about the delay on getting back to the forum on this problem.

The movie was re-encoded using the Big 3 method (explained over at Doom9) It was noted that the default bitrate selected by BatchCCE was 0 to 9352 kbits/sec. The default in DVD Rebuilder – beta 0.93 – is 500 to 8552 kbits/sec. I used RB-Opt to change these defaults for the main movie to match the selection of BatchCCE. The output of DVD Rebuilder after burning with Nero produced a perfectly playable disc from beginning to end. So obviously occasionally some movies require a higher bitrate than the defaults in DVD Rebuilder to encode properly it seems.

Hope this is of use as a potential solution to anyone who has had similar problems.

Regards

TZ


#7

Hmm, when you set the minimum to zero, that’s essentially leaving it undefined for CCE. Was the flat part priority (qual. precision) left the same? I’m puzzled by this, could it have been something to do with OPV?

BTW, I just got RB-Opt to have a look at it. Interesting. :wink:


#8

These settings were copied from BatchCCE as well as the bitrate min/max changes.

QFactor: 40
Quality: 16

TZ


#9

TigerZai

Not to distract from your obvious success but your early report of skipping might not be a RB/CCE related problem at all. I’m a long time user of RB/CCE and the only time that I’ve experienced skipping was when I edited the DVD using DVDremake and I screwed up and removed something I shouldn’t, or when I was experiment with high speed burns. When I hear someone complain bout skipping the first thought that comes to mind is either flawed media or the disc was burned at high speed. Burning at higher speeds can cause P/O errors that a standalone can’t make corrections for. I’m curious, what media were you using and at what speed did you burn it?

A good way to check a DVD for compliance before burning is to use Mark’s Tray Player. It’s a DVD player that emulates a standalone DVD player. If there’s a flaw in you encode then Tray Player will reveal it.

http://www.darkframe.de/SetupDVDTrayPlayerPro250.exe


#10

Thanks Sophocles

I excluded VobBlanker as the problem because when I removed all but the two problematic chapters, those chapters played back perfectly on cheap White Label Bulkpaq discs and on the Ritek G05 discs I normally use. Both discs were burned at 4x speed. An earlier test with the full movie resulted in exactly the same problems at the same points with either type of disc which, in my opinion, rules out media quality as the problem.

Thanks for the link to Mark’s Tray Player. I’ll check it out soon. :slight_smile:

Regards

TZ


#11

Maybe its time to donate a few $'s to jdobbs and get the Pro version of RB as he now does more fixes & additions on that than the free version :smiley:


#12

Especially considering all the sleep the guy has given up releasing Version 1.0!