A 12x DVD-RAM drive by Samsung available at NewEgg for under $40, but nowhere to buy 12x discs! And when/if the discs become available, the cost is going to be about $9 per disk! And they’re already talking about 16x! I suppose those discs will cost even more. What a disappointment: It’s been so many YEARS since optical technology has been available and computer users still don’t have a painless and robust way to store lots of data on removable media.
Really? A DVD-RAM disk has only 4.7GB space. You can buy a 8GB CF or USB memory card from one of the thousands of stores today. Or get a USB 100GB HDD.
USB devices are not viable backup media: cost too much, can’t label them. Hard disks are too fragile to be moving on and offsite regularly and getting enough of them for rotation sets is expensive anyway (especially the more robust 2.5" drives). (I guess I hate tape because of it’s linear sequential access and just wish for high capacity random access optical recordable media. IOTW, I’d like to see tape replaced. Those tape drives are expensive and so are the tapes.).
Yeah, I know, DVD-RAM capacity is too small for backup chores in client-server environments but it would work great for a lot of standalone desktop machines. I guess tape is still the media of choice for server backup (or an online backup service). DVD-RAM as the “use it like a high capacity floppy disk without all the gyrations required by CD or DVD±RW” would be great. Too bad about it’s availability and high media cost problems.
I wonder if DVD-RAM has a roadmap toward higher capacity or if it is dead at 4.7 GB per side.
All newish things are expensive… and will come down in price within time.
Serious backuppers wouldn’t stay at a dvd-ram drive and change the disc all 6 mins, there are better sollutions like auto-loaders for DLT etc etc.
Really where can you buy 8GB CF or USB memory card or USB 100GB HDD for $9 ?
“Really where can you buy 8GB CF or USB memory card or USB 100GB HDD for $9 ?”
I think Kenshin was responding to this part of my post:
“What a disappointment: It’s been so many YEARS since optical technology has been available and computer users still don’t have a painless and robust way to store lots of data on removable media.”
I was pretty much complaining about the projected cost of 12x DVD-RAM media vs. today’s available DVD±RW media though (even though the RW technology only half as fast as RAM technology (maybe not with verify enabled on RAM though)).
For personal data use, the USB devices may be fine, but for data exchange amongst users… well you’re not going to give someone your USB device nor mail it to someone or many people. (Yeah, I know, you can email it or transfer it over the LAN in a LAN setting, but that’s beside the point). Also, a lot of times, people want to make collections of things on cheap removable media and label them (archiving: past project data, last years accounting data, reference source code, pics, video clips, etc). Get that seldomly used stuff off of the hard drive!
Well Tony that was my point! I would be very happy and wish people were sending me Data on a 8GB CF or USB memory card or USB 100GB HDD but I don’t think it will happen in the near future. Maybe I should move and live in Korea where PC components might be a lot cheaper? But were I live USB memory and USB HD are still expensive. I find DVD-Ram very good and been very happy with it and disc can be brought for about $2.50 to $3.00 and 4.7GB is a lot of data and if you think DVD-Ram is slow to back up data? Have you ever used a Zip or Tape drive, they were very slow compared to DVD-Ram.
I tried DVD RAM when I bought a new Liteon - was not impressed and went back to DVD +R. Prices have fallen to the point where I no longer use re-writables - TY for the good stuff and verbs for everything else.
It was a response regarding DVD-RAM media.
It’s this simple: use write-once DVD+R/DVD-R media for backup and exchanges with other people and use the internet, HDDs, flash memory for most other purposes.
You can’t really compare a flash memory with DVD-RAM because a flash memory is at least thousands of times more rewritable and also a lot faster.
From my observations, Newegg.com is cheaper than most places in Yongsan where computer parts are cheapest in South Korea. A Crucial (one of the most prestigious brands of memory technologies) 8GB USB at newegg.com just for US$81 including shipping.
I haven’t tried a USB or CF just to send data to other people, but who knows? Maybe someday we’ll be able to buy a 1GB USB or CF or SD card for less than US$10 and send data on one via postoffice mail or door-to-door. After all, writing data on a CD-R or DVD+R/-R costs time and efforts.
What is good especially in South Korea isn’t memory price actually. It’s internet. I can send data via emails and messengers and even “web-hard” services. Terabytes literally. Why spend money on physical media? The internet’s virtually free and there are terabytes of space. Of course, one has to instruct how to use emails and web-hard services if the other doesn’t know it already.
5x DVD-RAM is a rarity in the U.S., even online. 12x is nonexistant here. All of these drives coming out with faster and faster -RAM support and yet any media beyond 3x is rare. :Z
Even when you can find 5x DVD-RAM, will you buy them? There are so few 5x DVD-RAM manufacturers yet, mostly Japanese.
Yes, assuming the price is reasonable. Not for $9+ though, even if it’s 12x.
DVD-RAM is fine for backups of data, that change often. For instance, if you want to backup your mail folder or your Word documents regularily. So just copy the files to the disc and you’re done.
DVD+/-R are good for static data, including videos, music and similar. These don’t change much.
And I still use CD-R! But let’s face it, making a coaster out of a disc full of data on write-once is pretty easy to do. Read: using media designed for authoring for data is a kludge.
“It’s this simple: use write-once DVD+R/DVD-R media for backup and exchanges with other people and use the internet, HDDs, flash memory for most other purposes.”
Well besides being the wrong tool for the job, using write-once media for backup and such means you have more of a secure disposal issue to address.
Panasonic site has 5x media available for a “not bad” price. Of course it needs to be on par pricewise with RW media though (and I want 12x anyway). Hopefully DVD-RAM will takeoff once the media becomes available at a reasonable price now that the speed is there and there are cheap drives available.
I wouldn’t buy one even when the price were US$1 per side (4.7GB) regardless of the speed. 470GB rewritable media for US$100 isn’t exactly cheap when a 7.2K RPM 300GB to 400GB HDD (with 8MB to 16MB buffer memory) costs around US$100. What I’ve been personally waiting for at least since around 2001 was cartridge-based Blu-ray media at low cost, not faster DVD-RAM. The movie industry and game industry cooperated to make rewritable optical storage very obsolete and less competitive than any other storage technology.
Let’s not forget that the verify feature of DVD-RAM (which is a good thing) will make that 5x media feel like 2.5x media.
Comparing hard drives and removable media is comparing apples and oranges in most cases. Having data just on one hard drive is never safe and having only one backup is not very safe either (rotation sets are usually desireable). That hard drive has to be backed up to something else that is removed offsite preferrably, be it tape, optical media or another hard drive. The issue with hard drives is that moving them around is dangerous simply because one good jolt of the delicate mechanical unit could render it useless. Also, buying enough hard drives for rotation sets is costly indeed. For average users, DVD-RAM would be the best backup/archiving (and anywhere other optical media is being used for data today) technology not only for ease of use reasons but for reliability reasons, IMO. It would work well in a lot of SOHO settings where the datasets and server images are small also.
I do agree that Blu-ray would be great because of the capacity (and if proven reliable, could replace tape drives as the backup media of choice in some scenarios), but I think that is years away from becoming economical for the average user. DVD-RAM could be the interrim solution if the media issues get resolved.