DVD Doesn't Play Back Properly On DVD Player?

[meeshu]

This is a strange one!

Trying to backup some of my DVD's using DVD Rebuilder (Pro) and using either the CCE or Procoder encoders to reduce the dual layer DVD-9 down to single layer DVD-5 size.

Via several computers -

Original DVD was copied via AnyDVD and saved as full size (DVD-9) ISO format.

The copied ISO file was played back on the computer to confirm that the copy was fine.

The copied ISO file was then reduced and re-encoded via DVD-RB using the CCE encoder (set at 4 passes) first. Output was a reduced ISO file.

The reduced ISO file was played back on computer to verify play back was OK.

Then the reduced ISO file was burned to DVD-5 size disc using ImgBurn with verify option to confirm burn was OK.

The DVD-5 disc was then played in the computer to verify that it played fine.

Finally, the DVD-5 disc was played in the standalone DVD Player, and so far it has played fine.

Now, just for comparison of quality of re-encoding, it was decided to try re-encoding using the Procoder encoder this time.

So, the original full size copied ISO file was again reduced and re-encoded via DVD-RB using the Procoder encoder (set at Master Quality). Again output was a reduced ISO file.

This reduced ISO file was played back on the computer to confirm that it played OK.

Next this reduced ISO file was burned to a DVD-5 disc using ImgBurn and with verify option to confirm successful burn.

This DVD-5 disc was then played back successfully in the computer.

Next tried this DVD-5 disc in the standalone DVD player. The disc plays fine until an episode is selected to be played. The selected episode appears to be playing according to the DVD player time counter (which ticks over), but there is no audio and the image remains fixed on the main menu!?

The first disc tried was an SKC DVD+R, and ImgBurn made sure the booktype was set to DVD-ROM to ensure DVD player compatibility. But thinking that the SKC disc may not be entirely compatible, another disc, a Verbatim DVD-R was also tried, but again the standalone player couldn't play this disc properly either!!??

The CCE re-encoded disc (also an SKC DVD+R) seems to play back fine on the standalone DVD player, but for some reason(s) the Procoder re-encoded discs do not play back properly.

We did have slight problem getting the Procoder set up properly with DVD-RB, so there may be some settings which are/were not set up correctly??

So what is going on here? Any suggestions (to get the Procoder encoder working properly)?

[Kerry56]

Which operating system are you using, and which version of Procoder? Some slight incompatibility may be the culprit if you are using an older version of the encoder and a newer operating system.

Others with experience have noted that Procoder stopped working well with DVD-Rebuilder at version 2. I don't know which one you have. I quit using Procoder some ten years ago, so I cannot tell you much about how to use it. I switched to HC and never looked back.

It is possible to replace the old version of HC used in DVD Rebuilder with a newer one if you wish to try it. I believe you have to download the newer version, then rename the executable to HCbatch.exe and replace the existing one in the Encoders folder.

I do know that 4 passes with CCE is simply spinning your wheels. With DVD input, two passes should be fine, with three being overkill in itself. But again, I preferred the HC encoder.

[gonca]

Original DVD was copied via AnyDVD and saved as full size (DVD-9) ISO format.
DO NOT rip DVD to ISO format
Use folder structure
ISO format retains structural protection such as bad sectors, possibly ARCOSS etc

It is possible to replace the old version of HC used in DVD Rebuilder with a newer one if you wish to try it. I believe you have to download the newer version, then rename the executable to HCbatch.exe and replace the existing one in the Encoders folder.

Try what Kerry56 said. HCEnc is a top notch mpeg2 encoder

[meeshu]

Thanks for the comments.

I thought there would be some comment about using HC Encoder instead, but we would like to try ProCoder anyway to do a quality comparison test.

Operating system is Windows 7 x64. I believe ProCoder is version 1.5.

We'll try running ProCoder (and maybe DVD-RB) as well in XP compatibility mode and see what happens.

Another disc was tried (Verbatim DVD-R), and again the episodes did not play back properly on the standalone DVD player.

[gonca]

Try ripping to folder for your next trial run

[meeshu]

Success!

This time we ran DVD-RB with ProCoder 1.5 on a computer running Windows XP to do the re-encoding, re-building, and then saving to ISO format at DVD-5 size.

The DVD-5 ISO copy was burned to another DVD+R disc (TDK this time) with ImgBurn and the burn verified.

The final DVD copy was then immediately played in the standalone DVD player, and this time the DVD appears to play back fine!

So it appears that although DVD-RB works OK, ProCoder 1.5 doesn't seem to work (properly) under Windows 7 x64. We might try experimenting with setting ProCoder to run under Windows XP compatibility mode when running DVD-RB under Windows 7 x64.

For now, the issue seems to be resolved/answered.

[Kerry56]

In your first viewing, did you notice any particular differences in the two encoders?

Procoder had a reputation of changing the hue of the encodes slightly. CCE had a long time problem with "mosquito noise."

[meeshu]

First thing we did was completely uninstal DVD-RB, ProCoder, AVISynth, and then deleted remaining folders.

Reinstalled ProCoder, installed latest versions of AVISynth and HC Encoder, and reinstalled DVD-RB. This time we took particular care in selecting ProCoder settings while setting up DVD-RB. Subsequently Procoder encoded videos now work.

We suspect the original issue of ProCoder not working was due to incorrect/incomplete settings when installing DVD-RB and ProCoder for the first time.

We also did a test encode using HC Encoder. So we now have three encoded versions of the DVD (reduced from DVD-9 to DVD-5) -

CCE with 4 pass
ProCoder at master
HC Encoder at best

Comparing the three videos from a randomly selected scene, it seems that there is no obvious shift in hue (color). Although the videos are not sharp (due to low resolution of the source), it appears that the detail/sharpness are also similar between the three videos.

The videos are being viewed on a 21" monitor. The TV is only a 14~15" model.

So at this time there is no obvious difference in video quality between the three encoders.

[Wombler]

The differences in overall quality between the encoders will be more pronounced in the fast action scenes but to really compare them properly you're better starting with a difficult source such as 'Saving Private Ryan'.

The Omaha Beach landing scene in this movie is a particularly tough test for any encoder.

CCE does add some grain but it's less apparent in moving video compared to screenshots and I always felt it was closer to the original source than ProCoder.

HC is also better than ProCoder IMO but at the end of the day I suppose it's down to what you personally prefer and there's always a lot of debate.

Wombler

[meeshu]

Thanks for the comments.

Yes, the interpretation of which is a better quality video is some what subjective, what suits one may not suit another.

We did notice what appeared to be a grainy looking background in another scene on checking the encoding results after using CCE. But we are still trying to find this scene and will check this scene against the ProCoder and HC encoded videos also.

This brings up another question regarding grain. There are filters available for minimizing or removing grain.

Sometime ago we attempted to remove grain from videos using AVISynth only, and we had some success in doing so. However, when trying to remove grain from videos while re-encoding using DVD-RB, the grain removal procedure did not seem to run or work?

We are looking at trying to remove grain again from some videos while re-encoding and while using DVD-RB. What is the procedure for setting up the filtering options?

[Kerry56]

Been too long since I've even looked at the filter options. You'd do better to ask jdobbs directly over at Doom9. As far as I remember, you have to enter the AviSynth commands in the Options-->Filter Editor box and click on save before you hit the Prepare button. If the filters are installed properly on your system, they should run.

[meeshu]

Thanks.

It has been awhile since we last used DVD-RB and the filtering options.

The question regarding grain removal (from entire DVD) has been asked at Doom9 forum, but there have not yet been any responses. Although that is not entirely surprising as there seems to be not a lot of activity there.

We seem to have got some filters working (we think) while re-encoding anyway. So far we've tried the AVISynth included UnDot and then Deen filters with maybe slight improvement in video quality (less grain). Currently running a more advanced grain removal script (not sure where we got this from, possibly from VideoHelp?) which requires a half dozen or so other AVISynth dll files to be installed.

Some other filters tried didn't work as it seems these filters require specific file names to be entered or pointed to, they don't seem to do "batch" or bulk processing.

Still trying to find the scene on the DVD which seemed to have a particularly grainy background after re-encoding via CCE. Would like to compare the other re-encodes (HC and ProCoder) and see which was better at minimizing or eliminating(?) this grain.