DVD DL Confussion

[john_dillinger]

Hi people

Ok, so, I was reading This Article, and some questions popped up.

It is important to keep in mind that although your DVD-9 title has 2 layers, it is not 2 discs. The DVD player software will see only one disc, with one ISO/UDF file system, and one set of files.

So far, I know there are 2 types of Dual Layer DVDs… flippers and single-sided ones.

1. I know that flippers are available in the market today, but I wonder how does your DVD writer treats them? Just like when you finish burning one side, then Nero or whatever software you are using asks you to flip the DVD to the other side so that It can continue burning the second layer?

2. When you have a movie on a flipper (like The Girl Next Door, which, hopefully Ill have by Xmas, but so far, Ive rented it , and havent been able to see the second layer -extra scenes- because the rental shop puts an “ID” sticker on the man side ), how does your DVD player treats it? Just like, if it was 2 normal DVD5’s? aka when you’re done with one side, nothing happens, and you have to manually flip the disc? (Notice I dont have any DVD player, I just have a DVD-RW drive, and Im sticking to it, as Im more of the PC-only guy :D)

These two questions are regarding the quoted part above, because I’ve always thought “flippers” where just 2 DVD5’s on 1 single disc and thats it, no weirdos attached.

3. Most movies, are now bundled into DVD9 single-sided DL discs (for example, I own Anchorman which is in this style). Are those also available in the market? Like, If I wanna make a backup can I just buy one of these and so I wont have to remove any parts of the movie, or compromise the quality at all?

It just, Im really confused, because I see all this talking about layers and break points and DVD9 and else, and so I dont really know where I am, and well, you guys understand Im teh biggest n00b around.

Thanks y’all

[gumshoe99]

If the flippers have only a single layer on each side then they are not a dl disc. The burner or player would only see one side at a time and the burner will not ask for the second disc it will just say you don’t have enough space. It treats the other side like a totally separate disc. If they are available, I haven’t seen any dl flipped burnable disc only a few flippable DVD9 and many dvd5 pressed commercial discs.
My 16x burner is able to burn +R dl discs but I haven’t bought any yet but I saw some at 3 for 10$ canadian so I am tempted to at least try a few. The layer breakpoint causes some burns to fail because the burner software can’t recognize it or sometimes it is the standalone player that has trouble recognizing the layer breakpoint. That is where the first layer ends and the video continues on the second layer.
While people sometimes call them both DVD9 that’s not quite true because dl discs have less space so commercial pressed discs are a bit different that’s why the players have no problems with those.

Edit:
Keep in mind that to the burner and player the dl disc is just one with more space on it but if it was a flipper each side would be treated like a separate disc. The layers are just the way the physical data is stored on the disc itself. It’s like a sandwich one layer is on the lettuce level and the other one on the meat level and the laser can read one or the other.

[john_dillinger]

Ok gumshoe99, thanks
So I guess The Girl Next Door is one of those “single layer on each side”.

Ok, so you talk about “DVD5 pressed commercial disks”… aka what?

So my bet is that so far, I havent come across any “real” DL disc… and thats actually good
But dya know of an example for these? Like a movie that you know or game or whatever that comes on a real DL disc?

One thing that is not clear… the commercial DVD9 discs (like Anchorman, Meet the Fockers, LOTR 3 and so…) are not “real” DL right? Just single-layer DVD9 discs… is it? And are those available in the market, i.e can I buy 'em?

[CCRomeo]

most DVD are one sided, a few were made two sided wide V normal; but the disks are not true Dual Layer, just single layer on two sides. True DL discs will copy fine if they play fine. two sided discs also copy fine just pick the side.

[john_dillinger]

Well In the end this is all very confusing, as my goal is simply to backup my movies and thats it… unfortunately it all seems like a complicated task

So, do you guys know of a tutorial that has been written on this? Like the ultimate n00b guide to understanding DVD discs? I know many about DVD-R/+R have been written, but not sure about this matter… I think it would be better instead of me, wasting your time with stupid questions

[gumshoe99]

You seem to worry too much about technicality.
Some of the early rentals I had a while back were dvd5 flippers but the only thing on side 2 was a full screen version of the same movie (I can’t recall the titles) but that is less common for commercial releases meant for sale. Without opening every box to check I can say that all the recent commercial movie discs with extras that I own are DVD9 dl type discs.

The only thing that you need to consider is:
1- Do you have a dl burner and do you want to burn to those discs with all the extras without sacrificing any quality most of the time. I say most of the time because a DVD9 store bought original may still have a bit too much material for a home burn DL disc but that can be overcome.

2- If you want to squeeze all or most of the contents of a DVD9 disc to a DVD5 sl disc then it can still be done with a transcoder like DVDShrink but you sacrifice some quality in the compression and can also drop some portions of the original movie like trailers or second language soundtrack if you so choose to allow more extra room for the video and therefore a bit less material to compress.

3. If you really don’t care about the extra material then you can just choose the movie only and reauthor some menus and usually the resulting DVD video will fit on a DVD5 disc. If it is still a bit too large you can pass this modified DVD on your hdd to a transcoder just to get it down to size before burning to a DVD5 disc.

Every one of us is different. Some people who want to see the DVD on a very large TV set or projector may want only the best possible copy of the original that will only fit on a dl disc while some of us only want a copy so that the kids don’t scratch the original and a DVD5 transcoded copy is fine.

All in all every option is there it’s up to you and I as users to decide.

[john_dillinger]

You seem to worry too much about technicality.

Yeah, well, I do. To be sincere I might be a n00b to this DVD world, but I am a hardcore programmer, so you get the picture. I just wanna know a little bit more, hehe.

Every one of us is different. Some people who want to see the DVD on a very large TV set or projector may want only the best possible copy of the original that will only fit on a dl disc while some of us only want a copy so that the kids don’t scratch the original and a DVD5 transcoded copy is fine.

Well lets say my case is, DVDs are too expensive in my country, thus, I have relatives in the US which are nice enough (and they know how to find their way around amazon ) to send me some movies that I like, and I wanna make perfect backups, as In, the point of having a DVD IMHO is to have all these menus and extras and else… because they are really cool.

Without opening every box to check I can say that all the recent commercial movie discs with extras that I own are DVD9 dl type discs.

Ah gotcha. So yeah, thats what Im talking about.
But there is still a question on the blue here, and well, people seem to be, I dont know how to say that in english, dodging it? avoiding it?
You say DVD9 dl discs, like in, non-flippers right? Thats what Im refering to. Are those available, in the market, like, can I buy some of these discs so I just use something like DVD decrypter to make a 8.x Gb ISO and burn it just like that?
My bet is that, nope, they are not available, otherwise why would all the tutorials on the internet’d have to deal with ripping or removing parts of the movie at some extenct… Right? And not they just say “Buy a DVD9 dl disc and burn the ISO”

So right now, what I think is, there are two types of DL discs: Flippable, and non flippable. And the thing is, in the eventuallity you say for us, the masses, there arent non-flippable dl DVD9 discs to buy, can I just use a flippable disc, or it’s just not gonna work…?

2- If you want to squeeze all or most of the contents of a DVD9 disc to a DVD5 sl disc then it can still be done with a transcoder like DVDShrink but you sacrifice some quality in the compression and can also drop some portions of the original movie like trailers or second language soundtrack if you so choose to allow more extra room for the video and therefore a bit less material to compress.

That’s actually why Im here Lets just say, I tried to make a backup of “Anchorman” with DVD shrink and making it fit on a DVD5 disc, and even if I took the trailers off (replacing them with still images), removed worthless sound tracks, subtitles (well subtitles are just a few Mb big, I mean, they are just strings anyways) and else, the quality just, sucks, big time, and thats why Im starting to look for new backup methods that dont imply sacrificing anything at all.

3. If you really don’t care about the extra material then you can just choose the movie only and reauthor some menus and usually the resulting DVD video will fit on a DVD5 disc. If it is still a bit too large you can pass this modified DVD on your hdd to a transcoder just to get it down to size before burning to a DVD5 disc.

Well, Im interested into the extra material, always, but this “reauthor some menues”… to the risk of getting banned or something for asking a question that might not fit into the newbies forum, what do you suggest for the job?
Ive seen some tutorials on editing the IFO files with IFOEdit and else… but they are not really n00b friendly.

So you know, thanks again for your time man, appreciate it.

[gumshoe99]

Sorry but I won’t cover everything point by point just answer a couple of things.

In Canada where I am I can buy burnable +R DL blanks non flippers for about $3.50 each including taxes. (I’ve been waiting for the price to drop some more). For most DVD9 discs with content under 8.5 gig it would be easy to use a program like DVDShrink and without compression just burn a near perfect duplicate. I could also use a separate ripper just to get by the css encryption and burn the disc using Nero.

If you just want to use the movie and create new menus and navigation then there are many Authoring programs.

There’s a list on this site which is very good:

http://www.videohelp.com/tools?s=2#2

I often use and like DVD-Lab when I have video from my dv camera or some captured vhs tapes which I have converted to mpg and I want to author them to DVD.

edited:
I am not sure that DVD9 flippable dl discs even exist at all for burners. The discs that have a DVD5 on each side are just single layer flippers. They are not dual layer discs. To burn to those you would have to split the movie in two. There are programs that will split an original DVD9 over 2 discs.

The dl’s for burning that are sold in Canada and the US are single sided non flippable 2 layer discs

[john_dillinger]

In Canada where I am I can buy burnable +R DL blanks non flippers for about $3.50 each including taxes.

Ahhhh!! That’s all I needed

Ok so I have now some questions regarding flippers but well, Ill ask em somewhere else.

Edit
Ermmm actually

If they are available, I haven’t seen any dl flipped burnable disc only a few flippable DVD9 and many dvd5 pressed commercial discs.

So thats the answer. There are just burnable DL non flippers but not burnable DL flippers (just DVD5 in each side, like treated differently as you said)

Thanks a lot for your help man
Oh and Ill check out the DVD authoring programs.

Cheers!