DVD Degrading Because of Moisture?

Many complaints here about degraded DVDs. So I made a test. Took a DVD of the cheapest kind - I would not recommend this brand… I burned something on it to make it full and then I put it for about five months into a with water filled plastic box.

After five months I took it out and it looked terrible. The shiny side was a bit white with many strains and not shiny anymore. I put it into the player and it did not even start to read it. To me it was clear - that was to much for the DVD. But I forgot to throw it away. After one ore two days I looked at the DVD and the data side was shiny again. I put it into the player - and it played without any problems. I checked the quality of the disk. It looked okay. Sadly I deleted the reference data of this disk when it did not work at the beginning. But a not watered disk of this brand shows similiar test data.

After now more then another five months I still have the DVD - and it looks like new. So moisture cannot be THAT problem.

Perhaps next I will start with a heat and UV test :wink:

Wet is not the same as humid: [Water] is not equal to [Air + Water]

Why do you think it’s possible for wooden ships to lie under water for a thousand years, and they can still be salvaged by archeologists?

And yet you can have wood lying in the open air that rots within months.

So even though your test shows that the disc wasn’t seriously damaged, you cannot conclude that the same is true if the disc is in an environment of high humidity instead of being immersed in water. :disagree:

Fun test though!

Nice one, I would suggest another test, carefully place the disc between 2 small pillows then take an 8llb sledge hammer and smack the top pillow a few times (be very carefull when doing this part my hammer bouced really hard I had to hold on really tight to prevent it from hitting me in the face) remove the disk from the pillows and check the data if its still readable it has passed the anti-skip test which is the ultimate test for any media LOL :slight_smile:

So you think it is a good idea to store the disks in water for future archeologists? So perhaps I should patent this procedure and sell those waterboxes to store the disks :slight_smile:

hmm… i live in an area with the monthly relative humidity falls within 70% to 90% (currently 84%) and average day temp of 30 Celcius. Most of my DVD+R’s burned from a year ago still read fine in my Liteon drive and i just store them in cd sleeves away from sunlight… a few of them have CR errors, but i suspect that the errors were there all the time due to the fact that a year ago i do not check my dvds after burning.
even if moisture does degrade the dvd, i think i would at least take a few years… but that’s just my opinion.

maybe i should do a test on UV and moisture. we do have enough sunlight for the UV test and for moisture -> how bout i keep the dvdr in the bathroom for a month? :stuck_out_tongue:

ROTFLMAO! :bigsmile:

Hell yes, of course you should patent this:

The Millennium Waterbox ™
With this professional grade archival solution, your important data(*1) will be safely archived for future generations. Up to 1,000 years of safe storage.(*2)

The Millenium Waterbox ™ is based on the preservative abilities of pure Dihydrogen Monoxide. Patent Pending.

(*1) You’ll be using this for your pr0n collection of course, but we’ll pretend it’s for important data. Wink wink, nudge nudge, know what I mean, know what I mean?!

(*2) The actual safe storage time can be as low as 1 picosecond.
Nothing is guaranteed. Don’t complain to us if your pr0n is destroyed - you have been warned!

Humidity and moisture degradation are more closely associated with the Amazon basin.
You want fungus, mold etc. Finding the right lifeform that eats organic dye?

…and SE Asia. Anything around the equator, really.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD-Fraß is a German Wikipedia article about a disc-degrading fungus. It’s important to see that the edges are lacquer-sealed, which is not the case with MBI CD-R, for example. TY CD-R are sealed perfectly, and even cheap NAN-YA CD-R are lacquer-sealed.

I really did the test and I guess at least 1/3 of the DVD was outside the water and so in a very humid air/water environment for about five months - I simply forgot it… I did this because my video camera stopped to work after only one year in SE-Asia - reason was rust. Before this I lived in Europe and California. The video camera had no problems at all for about ten years. But here at my new location the things are VERY different. So I needed to find out how often I have to rewrite my DVDs. People living in other areas of the world cannot imagine what it means to stay in such an environment. Even the CPU temperature etc. are a different story as soon as you switch off the aircon. Intel states the max temperature of my CPU with 70 degrees. Often it reaches almost 90 degrees without any problems and whatever fans. Most things are made for 20 to 25 degrees… And so I put my cameras etc. into a plastic bag when the aircon made the air dry and I want to store them for a while - now. Might sound crazy for Europeans and people living in the States…

Now this really reminds me of Molvanîa and Phaic Tan… :smiley:

You never left Germany - I guess…

I’ve been to Germany, Austria, Switzerland, France, Poland, Turkey and even China :wink:
Oh yes, it can be quite hot in the latter two countries :slight_smile:

None of those countries has a climate like for instance Singapore - not at all. I LIVED in Germany for 17 years, in California for 5 years and here for about 9 years. I am talking about living not about staying for a couple of days. Then this gets a different story. People here will laugh about the damage the salt put on the roads in winter causes to cars in Germany - because they never stayed there and so do not understand. But you and I know that it is a problem and exists. And so it is with problems existing here but not in Germany. And here moisture is one of the biggest problems.

So this is another reason why Made in Japan discs are superior to Made in India or Made in Taiwan ones :wink:

Not necessarily. Most MCC discs are made both in Taiwan and India, and they do much better in accelerated aging tests (humidity, heat and UV light) than TY media.

@[B]the original poster[/B]:

As [B]DrageMester[/B] explains, a [B]sinking[/B] test has no relevance whatsoever in real-world and is plain useless. It only tells you that water do or doesn’t damage the discs, and tells you nothing about what air humidity can do. Air humidity is water [I]vapor[/I], which is a [I]gaz[/I], not a liquid. Water vapor can penetrate polycarbonates much easier than water can, due to different molecular properties. These different properties are what allow exterior wall treatments to reject water (rain) but allow vapor to go through. Vapor can aso carry contaminants that water can’t.

Besides, some heat is needed to “trigger” the accelerated degradation due to moisture.

Last but not least, dozens of controlled experimentations show that moisture [I]does [/I]affect the degradation of discs. These are accelerated aging tests, performed both by manufacturers and independant organizations. With most MIDs, the degradation induced by high humidity in real world [B]can’t be properly detected without professional equipement[/B], and not in a short period of time (less than 2 years) anyway. Acceleration through heat is needed to measure degradation on shorter periods of time.

:cop: So performing a non-controlled, isolated experiment with no professional measuring equipment, showing no actual data (PIE/PIF scans at the least) and simply stating that humidity can’t be an issue, is plain nonsense. Sorry to be kinda harsh, but spreading misinformation based on sloppy and amateurist experimentation is not gonna help anyone, and I’m not gonna let it stand.

But have you checked the differences in PIE/PIF plots? :confused: - also 1 year is a very short time, assuming you don’t use Ritek G05 media. Most properly burnt discs will live at least 2-3 years even in harsh conditions.

It’s the [B]long-term[/B] (> 5 years) lifespan that is at risk in harsh conditions, not the short-term lifespan. Unless, as I mention just above, one uses extremely unstable MIDs.

Somehow strange. Simply said that I put a DVD into a box with water and the DVD was covered 2/3 with it and that it did not show ANY problems after all this time. So why does everybody here want to kill my because I shared this experience. Strange forum here - honestly. And again - the test shows a similiar error rate like a new one from the same pack.

Because of this part I guess: [B]So moisture cannot be THAT problem.[/B] - which is nonsense.

Strange forum here - honestly.
Sorry about that. All topics about media degradation are rather heated, if you visit different threads you’ll find that not all are this heated. :wink:
And again - the test shows a similiar error rate like a new one from the same pack.
So why not produce some of this data? On this “strange” forum, we’re used to show the data (scans, transfer rate tests, whatever…) to backup our points when it’s necessary (and often, even when it’s not LOL). Simple claims without actual data are always met with some suspicion.

Honestly - it gets too much. I have no need to fake any data - I will not make any money. I have no problem even to send you the DVD if you promise me that you will not use the data. I can show you here any test of the DVD if you tell me how I can upload the PNG file here.

I tell you - have been working with computers for more than 30 years. Simply wanted to share my experience - nothing more. It is VERY embarrassing for me what came out here in this forum. For me it IS NOT AT ALL NECESSARY to get pulled into a joke. Hard to understand that the MODERATOR here embarresses people that way. And again - I have no need and no benefit of missinforming people. And I do not repeat what I READ like you I guess. I simply wrote what I DID.

So let’s forget about my experience and about this forum here!!!