Download Paranoia

Hi All

I have been reading through all the threads here and they make for interesting reading, some talk of firewalls, some of spyware, some of pure paranoia.

I pose this:-

Most if not all the talk is of PC owners/users, what about the Mac people are they safer or not? Most sit behind firewalls even whilst downloading only opening the ports required to allow the traffic through. Also spyware is pretty much non existant on Macs.

And this:-

Also is it not true that most if not all the people who have been found guilty of file sharing are the people who have 100’s if not 1,000’s of files online for people to download?


I guess your OS has little to do with being targeted. An IP is an IP. In addition, the account holder for the Internet connection is the one held liable for anyone on the network. So a firewall is useless. But, interestingly, a senior citizen was able to beat the RIAA due to the fact she was running a Mac a couple years ago. Because they accused her of sharing music on Kazaa which was a windows only software and needed an emulator to run. THe RIAA gave her the “benefit of the doubt” but denies making a mistake. Something is fishy though, because she was accused of downloading Rap by Snoop Doggy Dog, which seems inconsistent behavior for a person of such advanced age.

On your other comment. While it is true that most of the suits that have been filed by the RIAA against music filesharers, were so called “supernodes” or at least those that had many hundreds of files. The MPAA has a zero tolerance against file sharing of movies. There are numerous cases of ISP’s being asked to issue warning letters to those using their services to download even a single movie.

The only safe way to download copyrighted materials at the moment is to live in Canada or other countries that do not care about downloading. However, even there you cannot upload legally.


RIAA has been trying to flex its muscles I believe in countries outside the US and being told to mind its own business as its laws only apply in the US. The movie thing is something else, I do not see the point in downloading films, they are so cheap to buy these days, as are music CD’s…

Here in the UK were some recent cases of some people being fined upto £2000 for sharing many many files online, and loads of others were asked to sign legal papers to the affect that they will never ever download copyrighted music again.

All this was very very strange was because I only read about it briefly on the BBC news website here in the UK, it was removed soon after, and I have not seen or heard anything since. This was only the other week, It seemed like it was a token report to keep certain quarters quiet, as no names were mentioned, nor what parts of the country they were in or anything. I think it was thrown out as scare mongering to put people off.

Here in the UK when they do move on this sort of thing it has always been against the supplier not the downloader.


Hello there,

I think you will see that the copyright laws are being taken quite seriously abroad. Maybe this is similar to the story you are thinking about. As long as money is involved or more importantly a perceived loss, the wheels of justice will turn. Slowly, but by cracky they will turn, as there is money to be made in the enforcement of these laws and also it creates a suitable environment for legal music download services to take hold. Which again, is yet another lovely revenue stream that requires zero effort from the labels. The customer supplies all the equipment, labor, Internet connection and materials to “produce” products for them. And as an added bonus, the lossy files come with a generous dose of DRM to boot.

They just have to sue enough individuals to prove to the masses in their “education campaign” that they can be held accountable. Frankly, I am surprised that there are not many more being sued as it is easy money for the labels. But, I guess they want to not seem too evil in the press- since everyone loves the underdog! It started in the US and now it is moving east. I have yet to see any country tell the US to take a hike with their copyright laws. All I have seen is a couple interesting interpetations. i.e. Russia in the AllofMP3 investigation, and Canada where they say leech away!


(see why they call me Crabby?) :wink:

Whilst not a quote from the Swedish governmet itself, this particular site (I won’t mention because of the rules) has been able to effectively tell the western goverment to get bent because Sweden is not cooperating with the US authority. I plenty more stuff on this non-cooperation if anyones interested. They have been sent cease & desist n’ the like letters from all the following companies:

Microsoft: email (we get tons of these)
Mono Music:
Uppsala universitet:
ADV Films:
Sublimal Sounds:
Sveriges Radio
Peter Pehrson - / Warner Music:

All these compaines, were replied back to from the BT Tracker along similar lines I’ve given below.

This particular letter was the site’s reply to a letter sent by DreamWorks:

I love the Swedes. :cool: :bigsmile:
If anyone’s interested in more of the varied defiant, sarcastic retorts by said site, feel free to PM me & i’ll give you the link to the site. :wink:

Hi Moses’ Muse

The site in Sweden that you refer to is closing down on the 1st July 2005 as the Swedes have bowed to ousiders influence and are changing their laws. Thats what I read anyway, unless it is a ruse.

Just do a web search for the site that you refer to and you will find what I have read.

The said site at the moment is saying nothing and is still open for business :slight_smile:

Hi guys,

Maybe this is the story you are thinking of washac. I did make a mistake in my statement above a couple posts ago. I said something like other countries are not ignoring copyright laws of the US. What I SHOULD have said is most countries have laws of their own against copyright infringement. I suppose no matter where we live, if we invented or created something, there is a law to protect those rights. Maybe they just cooperate with the US when the laws apply in both countries. I don’t know.

Hi Ya

No thats not the one I was refering to, the one I am talking about is still operating, but has to close on July 1st when the Swdish laws change, they hold no copyrighted material , theirs is a tracker.

Ah OK that makes sense :slight_smile:

Thanks for the PM washhac! :wink:

The link you sent me appears to be most convincing, although they don’t provide any links to their sources, which I’m looking into now. Even more shocking though, is the claim that Linux distro’s with the built-in capablity to play DVD’s will also become illegal to distribute in Sweden under these new laws. WTF is happening to the world!

So are you saying its legal for Canadians (which I am one) and illegal for people of other countrys to download from say WinMX. Thats what I use, but I use the OpenNap Protocol Network servers, or else theres nothing on it if you don’t. I found and downloaded pretty much everything I have searched for. And some very rare stuff too.

Thats the first time I heard that its ok to download but not upload.

So that would mean I can download all I want but I can’t share mine with others, when thats what its all about. Some people won’t let you download from them if you don’t share.

Anywhays I’m goin to keep leeching away (legally) but still share my music (illegally) OH WELL! :iagree:



So are we saying that if you share then you are putting yourself up to be shot down, but of you just leech then it’s not quite so dangerous.

I must say that it seems that from what I read about the UK it is the sharers who have loads of files online for others that are being caught, and these are on the more common sharing networks.

Another question I have is that I keep reading that BitTorrent is a P2P file sharing network. That confuses me somewhat as if there is nothing being seeded as it is known then there is nothing there, no network as such.

Where as giftd, Gnutella, etc etc are physical sharing networks.

If people using torrent programs are being caught as I have read, how is that so, unless the men in black are joining in and writing down the IPs and tracing.

They’re using bots to connect to the torrents’ swarm, which then logs all connectable IPs. Another way is at the tracker itself. Your ISP has the abiltiy to log your URL trail, since it is the one to connect your PC to the site your connecting to, so when a company see’s an incriminating file on a tracker, they get in touch with cooperating ISP’s, which in turn, notify their customers that they have DLed an illegal torrent link, and are so told on behalf of the copyright owner’s authority, to remove the offending illegal file(not torrent link) from your hdd & finally to “cease & desist” from DLing illegal files in the future.

It’s been argued, DLing the file doesn’t prove that a user participated in the swarm itself, but I guess they must consider this intent, sufficent evidence for prosecution. I’m lucky that my ISP has never sent out these “cease & desists” to it’s users like many larger ISP’s around have.

To protect yourself from swarm identification, you can use Peer guardian or Protowall which block the companies IP ranges from connecting to you personally, thus giving you anonimty, however bear in mind that it’s recieved mixed critcism on it’s actual effectiveness against these types of threats.

BT tracker’s are just navigators for the seeding & leeching of files that users partake in distributing, I agree, the trackers do not distribute the actual files themselves. I only wish the courts saw it the same way as we do. I can though, understand their point, we’re can only argue upon the insignificant semantics of BT topology, trackers, at the end of the day, are central to establishing illegal activity, why else label files in accordance to music, movies, games etc. How much non-copyrighted stuff would go into these catergories. :cop:

To reiterate, I’m fundamentally against holding trackers responsible for it’s users actions. :iagree:

The site where the very amusing responses to legal threats that Moses’ Muse mentioned have no mention of plans to close down.

I’m not sure if the new law will enable them to sue torrent trackers or not.
They don’t hold any copyright protected information on their servers and is not technically speaking linking to any files either.
Anyone using them to download will for sure break the law after July the first though.

And the site mentioned is run by the same people that is behind (nothing to download on their site, so I guess it’s ok to mention them).
It’s an organisation working for defending the rights to download and patent and copyright issues in general.
They have a massive amount of supporters, about 40000 members now and have been getting a lot of press coverage recently.
If the authorites manage to close the mentioned torrent site they run there will be a lot of protests for sure.
It wouldn’t surprise me if they try thogh, but it could be a misstake I would think and would cause them more problems than they expect.