Does blank DVD deteriorate?

vbimport

#1

I’m posting here in the Bargain Basement forum instead of the media forum since I know you guys (including me) stock up dvd blanks… :bigsmile:

I was reading an interesting discussion here starting post#13 about burned disk deterioration --it’s off topic to the thread btw-- and my brain was tickling this question: will blank dvd deteriorate? because I currently have hundreds blanks left.

I’m guessing there’s no definite answer now but Dee-27 and Quikee answered: it might deteriorate because of the organic dye! This kind of explains why my 4 months old batches of Fuji TY don’t burn so well NOW compare to when I burn them 4 months ago! And yes, I finished 2x25pack Fuji TY in a week and just open another spindle of 50pack with so-so quality too… All of those bought around December/January and they were great back then. If one, two or 10 disks are bad, I can understand but I’m talking 2x25pack and 1x50pack.

Thus, if this is true, I would say… watch out guys, don’t stock up too much! :slight_smile:


#2

Now you tell me while I’m just done stocking up :slight_smile:

It does make sense that they might degrade over time. It also makes me wonder if they only start to degrade AFTER the burning process.

Interesting none the less, I would love to know more.


#3

Well, lol, I’m sure they don’t only degrade on YOUR shelves. Should the media manufacturers start putting a freshness date on their media? hehehehehehe One of the biggest causes of media degridation aside from physical damage due to poor handling practices is UV light. (Sunlight) Store your media, both blank adn burned in a dark cool place.

I’d have to suspect that if light degrades written media over time, then the same particular wavelengths my also alter unwritten media at the same rate.

JD


#4

My limited brain would say that blanks degrade at lesser rate than burned dvds. I’ve experienced burned dvds produced twice as much PIEs in a week… so how bad will blanks go in a month or a year? counting from the manufacturer plant…

We also know that the end of the disk is the part that most likely produce more errors… again my brain thought its quite possible because even if stored in the original unopened spindle this part is exposes to environment more than the inner part…


#5

well if the advice is put it in a cool dark place i’ll stick mine in the fridge :stuck_out_tongue:


#6

I would assume the manufacturers have done some testing on their blank media products before they sell them. I’m sure they are constantly testing different mixtures for stability and quality. The question is, have they published this information and where. I would assume that research departments would do this for both the dye and plastics, and have come up with a formula relating cost of production vs life of product vs quality.

I would bet a nickel that this information is published in some engineering / scientific journal doing tests on dyes etc. They probably wouldn’t have info on particular manufacturers but different dye / plastic / whatever combinations, and one would probably need a Phd in chemical engineering to translate.

I though I read a thread where the US Govt is also doing a study on this.

In the meantime the $60,000 question is: are we talking about month, years or decades when it comes to deteriation of media. As mentioned above, I’m sure storage environment has as big an impact on dvd / cd media as it does to tape. The big question is by how much.


#7

They should all deteriorate at about the same rate. The organic dye is completely sealed in the substrate sandwich (well, in a non-defective disc), so whatever impurities managed to get in during the manufacturing process will be there regardless of whether the disc is blank or a fraction of the dye surface has been burned out.

I won’t name the manufacturer, but I’ve seen evidence of dye rot developing over about a year and a half in a bunch of burned DVDs; I re-recorded them and then went to the next unopened 5-pack of the same stuff, and sure enough, the newly burned discs had similar spots in the same general area toward the outer edge. This tells me that burned and blank discs from the same production run deteriorated in a similar way.

You really think some minor annoyance like dye rot is going to stop us? The way I look at it, when you keep old discs, they’ve been pre-deteriorated for you, so whatever problems they might have should be much more apparent immediately after the burn. Like good wines, “aging” only makes them better. Okay, up to a certain point. :cool:


#8

I don’t see an expiration date anywhere.


#9

Yo-

OMG!!! Am I ever in deep $hit with the ole’ lady-

I’ve been stocking up on these delicious sales and now I find out that the archivial rate is going down by the day-

Now this news on the heels of my getting a “poopie” BenQ 1620-

This is too much!!

Mike


#10

BM,

you’ll survive it all ok.

What happened with your BenQ 1620?


#11

Good manufacturers do say around 50 - 100 years - or so I thought - such as TY.

What is strange is that you are saying your Fuji TY are going bad in months - this is very strange - are they real or fakes.


#12

Yo isadore2-

Got me a brand new 1620 BenQ from Newegg - got less than steller scans on like five types of media including Taiyo Yuden, Verbatim and Maxell oh and Ritek G05-

So I decide to use it as a reader/ripper because of the MCSE speed hack thingie - and it is wicked slow compared to my AOpen 1648/aap (that it replaced) on like four movie backups - so back in goes the AOpen and on the shelf goes the BenQ - what a waste of $50 IMO-

Mike


#13

Mike, if you’re not satisfy, why don’t you rma it? You live nearby so low shipping cost. :slight_smile:


#14

not sure about the deterioration of blank media, but i’m glad i just put all my blank media away in a drawer of my desk :wink: quit scarin’ us zevia :stuck_out_tongue:


#15

Since the U.S. Library of Congress has a high investment in DVD archiving, you should probably check their websites on how they are doing their archiving. Their site is: www.loc.gov


#16

There is also the Digital Preservation program which is funded by the U.S. government. They should have a few reports out of DVD archiving and its success:

http://www.digitalpreservation.gov/


#17

All Blank DVD`s will deteriorate with time. The problem is knowing how fast.

I purchased BeAll Blanks about 9 mo ago half +R and Half -R. They all played fine on my Sony standalone and tested ok via transfer rate using CDspeed.

I burrned them using a pioneer AO5.
I chose these DVDs because they had a 100 year guarantee. How they came up with this I dont know but At the time I would have been happy with 10 years.

Less than a year later none of them play without problems and Im talking about a lot of DVDs.

The only way to read them is with the pioneer AO6. I cant read them with any other reader or burnner.

The older DVDs have less stable dye because the process of burnning DVDs is new and they are learning as they go.

MY advice is to buy as you need them and only buy Verbatim TY or Maxell media. The are the only ones that have held up for over one year.

You may have to pay more but your data will be their when you need it.


#18

back in '99 when i when i gave a joint training class with adaptec for ezcd creator rollout (i think it was ezcd creator 4) for my site (moo-cow tech support) somewhere i got the info that it was 5 years for unburnt and 100 for burnt. the reason being that in its unburnt shape it is like paint in a can and can “dry out” once burnt (or painted) it has done the majority of it’s changing and can only change in minor ways after that asides from scratches or physical damage.

my guess on the “doubling of errors” is that it dye had not finished burning… or settling from a burn. i would bet there is a point, might be 10 minutes might be 2 hours, where that changes to the “correct” scan. scaning a disk directly out of the burner is like eating cookies straight out of the oven. they will change as they set

We also know that the end of the disk is the part that most likely produce more errors… again my brain thought its quite possible because even if stored in the original unopened spindle this part is exposes to environment more than the inner part…
my guess would be the outside is more prone to “read” errors as the outside edge covers far more ground than the inside when reading CAV. which is why most of the time scanning is done CLV


#19

I haven’t seen any convincing evidence of that yet. If there is any such “setting of the dye” it is not distinguishable in the normal differences between scans.

Here’s an example, two scans of the same disc I randomly grabbed from a recently burned spindle, immediately after a burn five days ago and today. (This is an animated GIF image, make sure you have not disabled GIF animation in your browser.) The scans were done by the same drive, with the same firmware. The newer scan has blueish PIF lines. The disc may seem to have improved somewhat but that is normal variation between scans… it may have been grabbed slightly differently by the clamp (after all, the laser has to follow tracks less than one micron apart, and read pits les than one micron long, so the slightest, tiniest misalignment affects its ability to do so reliably), the drive may have been a few degrees cooler, tiny particles of dust nearly invisible to human eye got stuck at different spots, etc.


#20

Hopefully blank media doesn’t deteriorate too quickly, cause I’ve stockpiled a ridiculous amount of blank TY and Verb media. :sad: The only problems I’ve personally seen are some Verb media that displayed dye defects after burning and some Beall media that apparently degraded within a couple of months of burning and was no longer playable.