Discjuggler is God

Just FYI, I’ve tried many different programs for copying Call of Duty(safedisc 3.10.020) with varying levels of success. First, the copy made w/ Alcohol 1.4.7.1005 authenticated fine albeit a little slow in my 52327s, but failed totally and caused my pc to freeze in my NEC 5700A(old POS). My copy made with Blindwrite 5.01.112 had the same results. Clonecd 4.3.1.7 worked but the results are suspicious. It works flawelessly in both drives but only if the clonecd tray hide cdr media is used. It fails when used in conjunction w/ Alcohol’s “Ignore Media Type”. This makes me think that the copy, despite being burned w/ ignore weak sectors as opposed to emulate weak sectors, still relies on some sort of foolery(real word? idk) by the clonecd tray. Then there was Discjuggler. I followed the guide by Futerproof for setting up discjuggler and the copy works perfect. It authenticates just as fast as the original and works on both of my drives(using the Ignore Media Type setting in alcohol of course). In conclusion, with respect to safedisc 3, discjuggler=works flawlessly. Other software=inconsistent.

Nice to see you found software you like. I happen to agree with you. DJ is defintely superior for many different things, one of which is against Safedisc protection. From me experience and results, it too produces most portable media and copies that can play anywhere.

If only someone made a twinpeaks method for a DJ Image file. Then one could say it’s close to unstoppable.

DJ is good but ive definately had some copies of sd2.9 that it would not copy, as you say flawlessly. diifferent drives will behave different ways. DJ worked fine for most of my drives but 2 drives absolutley would not run the copies. sd3.1 is a easier copy protection to duplicate than sd2.9 also.

Just wondering Jamos, what cd copying app do you prefer? And I’ve heard many people say that safedisc 3 is much easier to copy than 2.9. Why is this? What has changed that dramatically weakens the protection? I’m not complaing of course(I’m definately happy that the protection is easier to copy), I’m just curious.

Originally posted by Tezmar
Just wondering Jamos, what cd copying app do you prefer? And I’ve heard many people say that safedisc 3 is much easier to copy than 2.9. Why is this? What has changed that dramatically weakens the protection? I’m not complaing of course(I’m definately happy that the protection is easier to copy), I’m just curious.

for sd i use clonecd right now…it seems to do the best on all my drives…though i have to have ccdtray running even without emulate weak sectors to run on some drives not sure why?

im not sure why sd 3.1 is easier to copy just seems to be…FP may have some assumptions on why…

I think clonecd is cheating and is actually using emulation even if ignore weak sectors is used. An image of Call Of Duty made w/ clonecd 4.3.1.7 doesn’t work when mounted in alcohol, but the image made w/ DJ works fine when mounted in alcohol. This makes me think that clonecd is not actually creating a good image and is using the clonecd tray to perform some sort of emulation because as I said before, the copy doesn’t work when used w/ Alcohol’s ignore media type. Slysoft may be tring to fool us…

Originally posted by Tezmar
I think clonecd is cheating and is actually using emulation even if ignore weak sectors is used. An image of Call Of Duty made w/ clonecd 4.3.1.7 doesn’t work when mounted in alcohol, but the image made w/ DJ works fine when mounted in alcohol. This makes me think that clonecd is not actually creating a good image and is using the clonecd tray to perform some sort of emulation because as I said before, the copy doesn’t work when used w/ Alcohol’s ignore media type. Slysoft may be tring to fool us…

i dont know if they are cheating…they may just burn something in thier image that makes it work only with clonecdtray…maybe copyright issues not sure? ie they want you to buy a copy for every computer you play your backup on. who knows? Dj works well for me though like i said before i cant get thier images to run on all my drives without emulation.

I don’t know if CCD is cheating or not, but I can say that i’ve got a Pioneer DVD (bought in march 2000) that read errors on sectors 400 while my others DVD, CDRW read as it should be. It’s very strange, maybe your cheating theory…

I have to try it with DiscJuggler and see what happens.

Lets not forget the reader used is just as important as the writer. DJ just like other software, such as CCD and Alc…etc… relies on a good reader capable of reading weak sectors well.

I believe my asus 5224A is a very good (if not one of the best) weaksector readers. Id say my problem is more the write but really ive only used dj a couple times it just may be a tweak setting also the two drives that the backups wont work in are pretty crappy drives only through autoplay or using ccd can I get a copy to work in them.

Im going to expirement and try dj on some of my harder to copy sd 2.9 titles and see if they play on my laptop drive with ccdtray enabled (i tried alc120s hide cdr without sucess). this would prove 2 things

  1. DJ is producing good 1:1 backups.
  2. Clonecd tray is better at hiding cdr media than alc120s hide cdr.

reason im looking at 2 is i have some backups done with bw that would not work on my laptop drive without autoplay (ie they would not work with alc120 hide cdr and no autoplay installed) but they work now with ccdtray and no autoplay on that computer.:wink:

I guess I shouldn’t really refer to clonecd’s approach as cheating. It seems to be doing something similar to Blindwrite’s autoplay for safedisk 2.9-3 titles. The images made by clonecd are NOT accurate images, and are designed to work ONLY in conjunction w/ the Clonecd tray. This is just like how backups made w/ Blindwrite w/ autoplay settings on, only work when autoplay is on. This seems to be the new approach to cd copying. They are taking a universal approach that should work w/ all cd burners, but requires proprietary software to be used to run the backup. Personally, I feel that developers of cd backup programs should learn to innovate rather than emulate…just my 2 cents

Originally posted by Tezmar
I guess I shouldn’t really refer to clonecd’s approach as cheating. It seems to be doing something similar to Blindwrite’s autoplay for safedisk 2.9-3 titles. The images made by clonecd are NOT accurate images, and are designed to work ONLY in conjunction w/ the Clonecd tray. This is just like how backups made w/ Blindwrite w/ autoplay settings on, only work when autoplay is on. This seems to be the new approach to cd copying. They are taking a universal approach that should work w/ all cd burners, but requires proprietary software to be used to run the backup. Personally, I feel that developers of cd backup programs should learn to innovate rather than emulate…just my 2 cents

unfortunatly i think they relized that all cd roms will not play these backed up titles so they chose that approach. like i said even with dj all my drives will not play the titles without emulation. I beleive its more a limitation of the burners than the software…

I guess I shouldn’t really refer to clonecd’s approach as cheating. It seems to be doing something similar to Blindwrite’s autoplay for safedisk 2.9-3 titles. The images made by clonecd are NOT accurate images, and are designed to work ONLY in conjunction w/ the Clonecd tray. This is just like how backups made w/ Blindwrite w/ autoplay settings on, only work when autoplay is on. This seems to be the new approach to cd copying. They are taking a universal approach that should work w/ all cd burners, but requires proprietary software to be used to run the backup. Personally, I feel that developers of cd backup programs should learn to innovate rather than emulate…just my 2 cents

Your statements are not entirely true, You do not need auto-play nor do you need to hide cdr media on safedisc titles where the back-up will be used is a cd-rom only, as long as the ATIP cannot be read by the device and you have the hardware capable of doing safedisc, you don’t need hide cdr media or auto-play to use the back-up. Using clonecd and twinpeaks requires no hide cdr media to use the back-up. Using the plextor premium and Blindwrite does not require auto-play for securom titles 4.8x and above. You don’t need hide cdr media or autoplay to be installed on the system you will use the back-up from.

Kamikazee

I think you misinterpreted what I was saying. First, using clonecd 4.3.1.7 to copy safedisc 2.9 and up REQUIRES the use of the clonecd tray whether you play it in a cd burner or not because it does much more than just hide the atip. My comments were specific to safedisc 2.9 and up, and to clonecd 4.3.1.7. Second, I was merely comparing the new clonecd tray to blindwrite’s autoplay and how they both have the abiltity to run images even if they are not made w/ a capable burner. Thirdly, clonecd 4.3.1.7 does not in anyway produce a backup of safedisc 2.9+ that’ll work w/o the clonecd tray. Finally, I did not address securom new 4.8x in any way, shape, or form in my aforementioned comments. Also, I do realize that most of the problems w/ copying are due to hardware limitations. I was just saying it would be nice if the creators of clonecd would also enable the program to copy safedisc 2.9+ w/o the requirement of the clonecd tray.(I would like to be able to use any atip hider I want, i.e. autoplay) I would like to be able to choose between emulation and regular copying, but clonecd does not allow this. I do not feel like having to have a proprietary piece of software on every pc I wish to run a copy of safedisc 2.9+ made w/ clonecd 4.3.1.7.

Yes, DJ is the superior app, its not even aimed at doing copy protected discs and it does :). Reads leadin raw and all. Definitely my first choice for burning. DJ is not hit or miss I’ve never had a Safedisc 2/3 backup fail yet.

/MLS

Ok guys lets not try to mislead the new folks here.

DJ is very good…it backs up safedisk very well maybe as well as any program can. The backups will probably work on all of your drives without emulation. But there still are some drives that will not play these backups (i havent seen a backup program that will do this without some kind of emulation). Mainly these drives are old or crappy ones that dont read cdrs well in the first place. I have two of them a gcc-420n in my laptop and a creative 52x drive in another computer. These drives will absolutly not play sd 2.9+ backups without some form of emulation (ie autoplay or clonecd) and yes clone cd uses emulation for safedisk 2.9+ and you cant turn it off in fact you need clonecd tray even to play the title.

I have tried backing up this protection with over 20 different types of drives including the ASUS 5224A which is a very good 2 sheep burner with all of the leading backup programs. there still are drives out there that just wont play the titles without emulation. this is why bw and clonecd have gone to the emulation scheme.

rule of thumb is first the backup should work in the drive you used to burn it. then it prolly will work in all of your newer cdrw drives with hide atip on. most of your cd dvd readers should play it with no emulation at all including hide cdr…but thier are still some cd dvd readers that wont play these backups (creative 52x for example) without emulation.

I agree w/ you Jamos. Just FYI, the only program that can get my shanty old NEC 5700A to work with a safedisk 2.9+ backup is discjuggler(without emulation that is). I wish I had an even crappier drive to test it on though…maybe i can dig up my old hitachi 4x dvd-rom from the basement…hehe, i bet it wouldn’t even be able to recognize the original…

Originally posted by Tezmar
I agree w/ you Jamos. Just FYI, the only program that can get my shanty old NEC 5700A to work with a safedisk 2.9+ backup is discjuggler(without emulation that is). I wish I had an even crappier drive to test it on though…maybe i can dig up my old hitachi 4x dvd-rom from the basement…hehe, i bet it wouldn’t even be able to recognize the original…

i just tried dj again using futureproofs settings still no go on my gcc-410n laptop drive without emulation…i even burned it at 4x on my asus 5224a…it plays fine on my other drives.

Just FYI, I don’t think write speed plays a part as long as you have decent media(i.e. TY or Ritek). I burned my cd’s at 52x w/ DJ and they work fine.

Originally posted by Tezmar
Just FYI, I don’t think write speed plays a part as long as you have decent media(i.e. TY or Ritek). I burned my cd’s at 52x w/ DJ and they work fine.

true but i have crap media…mainly for newbies i just tell them to burn at 4x just to be sure its not a media issue.

btw tdk 48x media really sucks…i had a 1:1 backup fail on me at 4x speed and the original disk wasnt even copy protected:p