Delkin Archival Gold DVD-R: any experience?

vbimport

#1

I just purchased a batch of these disks and then discovered that they do not work in my Plextor PX-712SA drive. When I insert a disk, I get an amber flashing signal indicating trouble, and Nero “Disk Information” reports that there is no disk in the drive.

I have had no trouble with this drive until now, or with my previoius Plextor CD burner. I have mainly burned CDs, but also used TDK DVD+R and Fujifilm DVD-R.

(this is a case where I would really like to cross post to the Plextor forum, but it’s not allowed, so I won’t)

Thanks in advance for any help.

  • Michael Bate

#2

Hi, welcome! I’m sure it’ll be moved, if it seems like drive trouble, rather than a media problem :slight_smile:

Is that the only batch of discs that are causing problems, or are you having the same problem with other blank DVD media?


#3

I guess it is a media issue, most likely the discs are not supported by the drive. If another drive detects those discs run DVD Identifier on it and post the media code.
Anyway I guess Verbs or TYs should be at least equally good for archival, if burned with a decent burner and kept in jewel cases :wink:


#4

I did some research on the net and it seems these medias are actually rebadged Mitsui MAM-A Gold disc.

http://www.photographyblog.com/index.php/weblog/comments/worlds_most_reliable_cd_r_from_delkin

Mitsui used to make very high quality stuff when they had their factory running in Japan many years ago.Ever since they rolled the curtain and transfered their manufacturing process to MAM things didn’t worked out as it used to be.


#5

Hmm… Mitsui… :’(
Actually the Mitsui disc manufacturing was split into MAM-A and MAM-E.


#6

Actually, Mitsui is gone. MAM-A (America) and MAM-E (Europe) is a new company entirely, having bought out the remnants of Mitsui. And the media from the new company sucks. Their CD and DVD is basically trash. You’d do just as well to buy CMC or PRINCO media. The word “archival” is just a meaningless marketing word.

There are a ton of know-nothing photographers out there seemingly overjoyed that their “archival quality” disc of choice has returned. They are being duped. They’d be better off with TY or MCC media, not MAM’s overpriced Frisbees.

From what I have read, MAM has even licensed out media codes from other companies (like TDK) to make “legal” fakes. As usual, all in the name of “more reliable support”.

More low quality fakes. Just what we needed. :rolleyes:


#7

I would not touch a Mitsui disc…Well if they are MIJ Mitsui CD-Rs I would love to buy em even at 2x the cost of normal TYs…
MAM-A and MAM-E are crap discs and as lordsmurf already said they fake MIDs. In the past they also did fake the TY code (dont know if they still are doing it). I would say stay away from those discs and get some MIJ TY Media or Verbatims to be on the save side.


#8

I borrowed a friend’s drive and ran Disk Identifier with one of the Delkin disks. Below are the results. If I’m reading it right, it looks like these are rebadged MAM-E disks and I would be better off with TY or MCC media (according to a suggestion above). Unfortunately I’m new at this and don’t know what TY and MCC refer to.


Unique Disc Identifier : [DVD-R:MAM4XG02]

Disc & Book Type : [DVD-R] - [DVD-R]
Manufacturer Name : [Manufacturing Advanced Media Europe S.A.]
Manufacturer ID : [MAM4XG02]
Blank Disc Capacity : [2,298,496 Sectors = 4.71 GB (4.38 GiB)]

** INFO : Drive = SONY DVD RW DRU-510A - [FW 1.0d] - [ATAPI]
** INFO : Write Capabilities = DVD+R DVD+RW
** INFO : Write Capabilities = DVD-R DVD-RW
** INFO : Disc = [DVD-R:MAM4XG02]
** INFO : Reference Speed : 1x DVD = 1385 kBps
** INFO : An Writeable Disc Is Recommended For Accurate Results
** INFO : Write Speeds (Supported By This Drive On This Disc) Listed Below

** INFO : GET PERFORMANCE Write Speed Descriptor(s)
Descriptor #1 = 5540 kBps ( 4.00x) - [CLV/Non-Pure CAV]
Descriptor #2 = 2770 kBps ( 2.00x) - [CLV/Non-Pure CAV]
Descriptor #3 = 1385 kBps ( 1.00x) - [CLV/Non-Pure CAV]

** INFO : MODE SENSE Write Speed Descriptor(s) [Legacy Command]
** WARNING : MODE SENSE Is Obsolete And Not Always Properly Supported
Descriptor #1 = 5540 kBps ( 4.00x) - [CLV/Non-Pure CAV]

** INFO : Hex Dump Of ‘Media Code’-Block Listed Below
** INFO : 4-Byte Header Preceding ‘Media Code’-Block Discarded
** INFO : Format 0Eh - Pre-Recorded Information In Lead-In
0000 : 01 40 c1 fd 9e d8 52 00 02 87 0d 11 66 78 80 00 .@…R…fx…
0010 : 03 4d 41 4d 34 58 47 00 04 30 32 00 00 00 00 00 .MAM4XG…02…
0020 : 05 a8 82 00 20 00 02 00 06 09 11 11 87 78 90 00 … …x…
0030 : 07 a8 82 00 20 00 00 00 08 05 16 0d 10 0a 09 00 … …
0040 : 09 97 07 0e 0b 58 88 00 0a c0 00 00 00 00 10 00 …X…
0050 : 0b 07 1c 13 a8 89 65 00 0c b6 89 88 80 00 00 00 …e…
0060 : 0d 00 00 d0 00 00 00 00 …

** INFO : Hex Dump Of ‘Control Data Zone’-Block Listed Below
** INFO : 4-Byte Header Preceding ‘CDZ’-Block Discarded
** INFO : Format 10h - Physical Format Information Of Control Data Zone
0000 : 25 0f 02 00 00 03 00 00 00 26 12 7f 00 00 00 00 %…&…

[ DVD Identifier V4.3.0 - http://DVD.Identifier.CDfreaks.com ]


#9

TY = Taiyo Yuden, Japanese high-quality media manufacturer. Look at the sticky “The Taiyo Yuden FAQ” to learn more about them.
MCC = Mitsubishi Chemical Corporation, parent company of Verbatim.


#10

I recently bought a 25 spindle Delkin Archival Gold dvd-r with scratch armour. Whilst opening the box and checking the burn side of the dvd-rs i noticed quite a lot amount of dust. this led me to question the quality of these dvds as even cheap dvds do not have any speck of dust in between the dvds. Running Dvd Identifier to check the manufacturer id, i received the following results:


Unique Disc Identifier : [DVD-R:MBI 01RG40]

Disc & Book Type : [DVD-R] - [DVD-R]
Manufacturer Name : [Moser Baer India Ltd.]
Manufacturer ID : [MBI 01RG40]
Blank Disc Capacity : [2,298,496 Sectors = 4.71 GB (4.38 GiB)]

other infos from the underside of the dvd are:
“200150 DVDHINUSR 16X” visible in the dye and “6144D7103494 3 G” printed with dot matrix characters on the plastic.

the box says that this dvd-r is 4X.

Could anyone please confirm the authenticity of these dvd-r’s?

Is there any such blank dvd that really does save the data for decades?

My intention was to back up all my digital pictures and movies.

Your expert help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.


#11

YEs your disc’s are the real thing
Delkin gold -> Made by MAM-A -> using MBIL stamper.
I’m happy that they downrated the speed, because at higher speeds disc’s become problematic.


#12

Hi roba, welcome to CDFreaks! :slight_smile:

I’m afraid that dust inside the packaging happens even with supposedly quality media like e.g. Verbatim (from my own experience) and Taiyo Yuden.

It’s important to remove dust from the recording surface of your DVD media before recording if you want the best possible results. This can e.g. be done with compressed “air” in a can.


#13

You could also try Taiyo Yuden or Verbatim. Chances are that those discs will last longer than Delkin/MAM-E. But not sure about the decades.


#14

I agree. Personally I would recommend Maxell Broascast Quality or a similar product.

http://www.tapeonline.com/DVD-R/Maxell_DVD-R_47_8X_Broadcast_Quality.aspx
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=details&kw=MADMR83J&is=REG&Q=&O=productlist&sku=382445


#15

HI to you all and thanks for your replies.

So if i get this right, this is a DVD-R made with a dye from Moser Baer India Ltd and with a real gold reflective layer.

YEs your disc’s are the real thing
Delkin gold -> Made by MAM-A -> using MBIL stamper.

But i am confused about who made this dvd. Above it says “Made by MAM-A” but the manufacturer id is different, its MBI 01RG40 and not MAM4XG02. Are dyes in new Archival Gold dvd-r’s being made by MBIL instead of MAM-A or MAM-E?
I’m guessing that Delkin have found MAM’s dye to be of poor quality and thus switched to MIBL’s dye.

The following is an answer from Delkin USA regarding same problem:
The difference between the package and the discs is correct. The discs are in fact 8X and some of the packaging was not switched when the initial change was made so it might say 4X on the package. Look on the discs for the correct speed. Did you purchase the discs directly from us? Without getting our hands on them it’s hard to say if what you are seeing is normal or not. It does seem as though you have gotten our discs and they should be fine however at the same time I have NEVER gotten a complaint about an excessive amount of dust so that does throw up a red flag but if they appear to be working fine then I guess its just a one in million type things. Let me know if you would like to send the discs to us for an evaluation.

As far as the dust thing is concerned , i’ll just wipe them off as i always check for dust specks before burning. i was just amazed that there were like 5/6 dust specks on the burn side of the dvds and some would not come off.

another question. since the dye is from MIBL, how far is it true that the delkin dvds i bought have Made in USA printed neatly on the print side?
does delkin take bulk dvd-r’s from MIBL and just put a gold and scratch armour layer and then prints their brand and claim all the fame? or is it all done in india?

Not that i dont trust products from india, in fact i think they are very good from past experiences with the indian industry…


#16

they are Mitsui or currently known as MAM-A, suppose to be a good media but no burners like them.


#17

But i am confused about who made this dvd. Above it says “Made by MAM-A”

This is going to be really confusing.
In short the answer is like I said earlier it’s made by MAM-A.

but the manufacturer id is different, its MBI 01RG40 and not MAM4XG02. Are dyes in new Archival Gold dvd-r’s being made by MBIL instead of MAM-A or MAM-E?
I’m guessing that Delkin have found MAM’s dye to be of poor quality and thus switched to MIBL’s dye.

0 MID is not DYE. This is a common made mistake.

1 Like shown above MID MAM4XG02 is poor supported. Now the problem with MAM is that they are having much problems of getting there own MID supported. Which is why there these days ussing MBIL stampers.

2 There is no MBIL dye. MBI 01RG40 is actually a MBIL MID (for 16x MBIL disc’s !) which belongs to MBIL disc’s based on Mitsubishi AZO dye technoloy.(!) (Confusing isn’t it ? :bigsmile: )

another question. since the dye is from MIBL, how far is it true that the delkin dvds i bought have Made in USA printed neatly on the print side?
does delkin take bulk dvd-r’s from MIBL and just put a gold and scratch armour layer and then prints their brand and claim all the fame? or is it all done in india?

All made in the USA except for the stamper. Okay some of the raw components are most likely also not made in the USA.

One thing I wouldn’t recommend burning these at 8x as Delkin suggests.


#18

Extremely common! :doh:

This optical media myth is even encouraged at selling sites like SVP. Numerous descriptions are like this: “[I]this disc is manufactured using the excellent MCC02RG20 dye[/I]”… etc…

So let’s say it again: when not fake, the MID is [B]the actual disc model and refers to all of its characteristics[/B] (except, sadly, quality control :doh: ). Like dye, reflective layer, polycarbonate, +R / -R, bonding, manufacturing process, you name it…


#19

Yeah but in MAM’s case the MBIL code seems to be not fake.

So you still have a disc with MBIL stamper that is actually made by MAM-A.
How does a 16x MBIL characteristics fit with a 8x GOLD MAM-A disc’s in your story.
So now we have one MID that actually fits to 2 disc’s when it comes to characteristics.

All because MAM-A is not able to get there own codes good enough supported.

Confusing isn’t it.


#20

It doesn’t, and it’s maybe the usual exception to the rule, isn’t it? :slight_smile:

Dare I say… just like with about everything where MAM is involved? :bigsmile: (nothing seems to ever make sense with MAM).

Actually in my book, it’s still a “fake” MID, just that it’s a “legit” fake MID if you see what I mean. :stuck_out_tongue:
Whatever, I’ll stop arguing semantics, my original intention was merely to back you up about the [I]MID=dye[/I] myth. :slight_smile: