Datatrack CD-R 99 --> not good?

vbimport

#1

I bought some spindels of Datatrack CD-R 99's from the cdfreaks shop, and just tested them with my Lite-on 24 speed burner. I burned at 20 X and one at 12X (cd's are rated up to 40X). The result is two cd's I can read in my burner but not in my Toshiba DVD 1612!!! What's going on? Are these Datatrack CDR's of such a low quality? Normally my DVD player reads EVERYTHING, even very bad disks. Or am I doing something wrong here?

Please help.


#2

Oh, and I forgot to write: I only burned a videofile of just 660 MEG with Nero (latest version), so I’m not even going beyond anything datalimit. Firmware of my Lite-On is also the newest.


#3

The Toshiba 1612 refused reading 99mins crap media (as the 1502 can’t read 90min crap media from Digital Storage Technology). It’s quite normal that some drives refuse such non-specified discs.


#4

I thought this would only possibly be a problem when writing more then 700 Meg, since then the burnpits are closer together?


#5

They are closer together, regardless whether you burn 100 MB or 850 MB to such a disc.


#6

Originally posted by alexnoe
They are closer together, regardless whether you burn 100 MB or 850 MB to such a disc.

The spiral is round tighter, to the minimum allowed of 1.6 mm.

The burnable area is slightly longer than that of most discs, as well.


#7

I now tried them on a friends 24x Plextor: they wouldn’t even burn!!!


#8

Usually, the Plextor should recognise them and should burn them up to 94:59, but if it dislikes this brand, then it’s normal.

BTW: Don’t even try to read such discs after a year or so…if you need discs over 700 MB, then get a dvd writer, just as i did.


#9

Datatrack uses Ciba Green as a dye , which is one of the best and most expensive types of phtalocyanine.
All products are made on Singulus streamline production lines which are of very high quality.
Then last but not least all polycarbonate used is Makrolon from Bayer.
This guarantees that there is no B-grade in the market since Bayer buys back all B-grade production and recycles it for other purposes than cd.

It is a fact that due to the 99min stampering the tracks are closer together than normal to increase cdr capacity.
Nevertheless will this NOT harm the overall quality of the disc.

Since LiteON is Taiwan brand it is most likely that smartburn hasn’t got datatrack in it’s database thus providing the drive the standard writesettings.

We have tested severe on LiteOn 40x on all speeds and different firmware but could not find any worriing results.

You should test the burned cdr in your lite-On on C1 and C2 errors.

But if Lite-On doesn’t give any problems I assume that the problem lies within the dvd-player.

We have a toshiba DVD1502IDE and 1401 scsi and both drives work fine with this media, regardless capacity…

Again I qoute that not playing on your dvd-player doesn’t indicate bad quality media…


#10

Since LiteON is Taiwan brand it is most likely that smartburn hasn’t got datatrack in it’s database thus providing the drive the standard powersettings.

This is rediculous. The last writer which used “standard power settings” was the Teac RS50 or whatever its exact name was, it was a 4x writer, available at about DM 1500 (or even more, don’t know exactly) in 1996 or so.
What do you think is the power calibration area for?

Nevertheless will this NOT harm the overall quality of the disc.

Then, DataTrack would be the first serious producer of 99mins discs. What do you believe are the reasons for Mitsubshi, Mutsi, Ricoh, TDK a.s.o not to produce 99mins discs? They don’t take chances on their reputation by making crap discs!

Please make some C1 scans, then put them into direct sunlight for several hours, and rescan (note that i did that with Taiyo Yuden, and the discs did not take any damage, not even a peak in C1 errors).


#11

It is not so riduculous…

I did think the same way you did before…
But some odd things were happening so I went to Rik Swusten , head technical engineer at Plextor Europe to explain some features…

I popped up the questions about writing speeds.
I couldn’t figure out why only taiyo yuden was written at 40x.
If indeed as you say OPC is performed and quality would match
(you have to agree with me that let’s say an independant european company - super A-quality) would then according to your explanation being written at 40x.
Cause starting writing at 20x ---- after 6min OPC (if quality is good as you think) —) increase 24x , andso , andso…

Now according to your opinion if OPC (like you say a quality check is done) and my media is good the drive would increase writing speed.

Now Plextor explained that at there testlab media is being tested
on professional testing equipment and given after testing certain values and write strategy’s. The database I was talking of…

As for your second imply , what I mean that all discs from datatrack are A-quality as a disc (Makrolon – as I explained previous )
As for the effect the cdr has regarding compatibility (not quality as you confuse it definately !!!)
it is so that 99min cdr’s are not specified in the spec. books.
Thus cannot guarantee compatibility on any drive , cause drivemakers make their drives according to the specifications.
Ritek puts its A and B grade on the market , datatrack does NOT.
as a custumor you don’t know if you have A or B grade…
Only the manufacturor knows due to production line tests.
All Datatrack products are being tested 4 times in production !!!

hope this clear some things up for you…


#12

Anybody got the ATIP of these discs?


#13

yes, I have OC-eeetje…

the stamper patent is from Plasmon Datasystems…

shows as an 80 min normal disc…

btw… nice work with the reviews…


#14

I will look at the CDR’s with CD-R Identifier this evening, as I’m at work now. Anyway, I put my test CDR with the 660 meg videotrack in a few computers here at work, and some can not read it and others barely. None could read them well. So quality or not, I can not understand if the compatibility (let’s call it like this) is so bad it can not really be used with most cd-readers.
Now I also read on this board that somebody said: forget about you being able to use them after a year. Is this true? Does the quality go down even after just a year?


#15

@Stevie:
You mix up “quality disc” and “disc that can be written at 40x”.

Especially Taiyo Yuden (which is indeed high quality media) discs are cyanine and therefore not designed to be burned twice as fast as what they’re certified for.

The database you speak of can improve compatibility, but high quality media can be written to without such a database entry, only with OPC results (and Taiyo Yuden for example can)

Is this true? Does the quality go down even after just a year?

Of course only crap discs can become unreadable. I have some unreadable Auvistar, an unreadable TDK d-View, some unreadable PostTechs.
Maybe DataTrack is one of the better 99mins discs, but even then it’s possible that LiteOn doesn’t like them (as they don’t like Verbatim Super Azo). Then, we’ll see in about 1 year if they are unreadable in 1 year :p. My DST (90min) are already so bad after 6 months now that i’m sure they can’t be read anymore after another 6 months.
If I get some of them (i still don’t know from where), I’ll perform C1 scans, put them into sunlight, and repeat the scan.


#16

Hmmmm, ok. But now, since I’m in need of some good ‘normal’ cdr’s can anyone tell me if the 80 min CDR’s from Datatrack are any good (and yes I want to be able to read them with my Toshiba DVD, store mp3’s for a few years, and play audio CD’s in my car audio)?
I have bought Philips CDR’s before, and could buy those, but I don’t trust them. If I put them into light, they become yellow very fast (silver is the normal color).


#17

@alexnoe,

No , this time you are wrong , I hope you were right though…

to proove it take for instance Hispace media (MPO France)
Absolute A-quality phtalocyanine discs.)

We take a plextor 40/12/40 PowerrecII firmware V1.0 (old powerrec database)
You will see that this media is being written at max 24x.

However if you upgrade the firmware (V1.1 and up , all Hispace media will be written at 32x)
And believe me exactly the same media , exactly the same disc exactly the same writer and an explenation from Rik Swusten from Plextor.

Plextor had done some severe tests on the media and placed hispace in their powerrecII database from firmware 1.1 and up allowing it to record at 32x with the same OPC being performed…

But, anyhow I’d wish you were right , it would be definately a reward for all good media out there…


#18

Maybe they try to detect the best speed with OPC, but use an additional table with media that is known to be capable of higher speeds than OPC tells.


#19

I just used CDR Identifier 1.63 on the 99 Min Datatrack CDR. It says it’s made by Plasmon Data Systems!!!?!! Is this just a mistake by the identifier? As Plasmon is really bad in my book.


#20

Plasmon in this case doesn’t really matter, as they only made the stamper. DataTrack is pretty new on the market, it could be they are currently betting on several brands and not put a decent ATIP code on their CD-Rs. Lots of factories do use Plasmon Stamper, so we can’t really say the discs are bad in this matter.

We can however say that 99 min are generally bad, because they are not in the specifications, so not all drives might like them. I have only heard good reactions on the DataTrack discs and they seem to be very good for their price, and you know what you buy as they always come from the same manufacturing plant…