Crackdown on fake media codes in Japan?

According to this DigiTimes article, some of the big makers of blank DVD media plan to ask the Japanese authorities to crack down on illegal use of so-called “fake” media codes.

Media codes are used by DVD recording devices to select appropriate settings and speed when recording DVD media. Such media codes need to be actively supported by the firmware inside a DVD recording device, and since including and testing a new media code for firmware costs time and money, many second/third-tier manufacturers use existing DVD media codes belonging to other well-known makers of blank DVD media instead of trying to get optical drive makers to include support for their particular media in DVD recording devices.

This practice is popularly known as using “fake” media codes.

From the DigiTimes article:

International brands of optical discs in the Japan market, including TDK, Imation and Verbatim, plan to ask Japanese authorities to ban the import of blank DVD+R/-R discs that pirate their M-Codes, which would affect some second-tier makers of optical discs in Taiwan because they are producers of a large portion of such DVD+R/-R discs, according to industry sources in Taiwan
Read more in the original article and discuss it here.

I have never seen MIT media with fake MID , MIC : yes (always) but not MIT :confused:

Previously, Gigastorage used MCC codes for their 8X DVD-R media in protest because their codes were not implemented and supported in the firmware of the drives produced by the major ODD manufacturers. Also, Princo used TDK codes back in the early days of DVD-R. I would imagine that the abuse of media identification codes is not as widespread as it used to be in Taiwan (especially with the 1st and 2nd tier manufacturers), but media with pirated MIDs is rife in China and Hong Kong.

Regards,
TerminalVeloCD

In this original news at Digitimes:
http://www.digitimes.com/systems/a20070809PD200.htm
you can read this:

many second-tier makers in Taiwan and Chinese makers have frequently pirated these brands’ M-Codes to produce DVD+R/-R discs mainly for exports to Latin American and emerging markets where M-Code piracy is not subject to punishment [B]as in the US, Europe and Japan[/B]

So I like to know why the use of MCC-xxx codes for example by MediaRange, Gigatain, …
is not « punished » in Europe ?

I don’t think they should be punished. Media can sometimes only be as good as the writers firmware. Look at some of my MCC02RG20 - it burns like crap in my LG drives because their 8x strategy sucks. Now imagine if your media had zero support and the drive makers were being snotty about it, you have no choice but to use a different company’s MID code.

I think fake codes are not as bad as attempting to fake labels + codes as well. That’s downright cheating.

Of course if a media manufacturer was very serious, they could send samples of their discs to drive manufacturers and ask them to implement it into their latest FW updates. But this could also be costly whereas it may be easy to use a media code that has a similar power margin etc.

Well, we’ve had that too :frowning:

(IIRC, Optodisc used TYG02 for a short time, but that was already some months or years ago.)

I am not trying to discuss about the quality of fakes compared to genuine Verbatim (which might be an endless discussion …)
[B]but about the legal point of view.[/B]

The news at Digitimes says the use of faked MID codes is

  • “prohibited by law” in the US, Europe & Japan
  • not punished in other contries like Latin America and emerging markets

many second-tier makers in Taiwan and Chinese makers have frequently pirated these brands’ M-Codes to produce DVD+R/-R discs mainly for exports to Latin American and emerging markets where M-Code piracy is not [B]subject to punishment as in the US, Europe and Japan[/B]

[B]So I like to know if the text of this news not concerning a « copyright » on MID codes is [U]correct[/U] or [U]not[/U] regarding international trading laws.[/B]

Anyway this code is [B]microscopical[/B] and written in [B]hexadecimal [/B] somewhere on a blank media and is [B]not really visible to any customs during the importation.[/B]

[B]So why have these importants brands never done anything in Europe before against the use (and this during years) of fake MID codes ?[/B]

A other point: MediaRange medias for example are not imported to Europe but manufactured in Germany.

Who manufactures them? And what is their MID?

I agree. In fact, in some ways, this points to some potential anti-trust issues, which although they would vary by country, place consumers in a position of having to depend on drive manufacturers to provide support for the media we want to use, with them having the power to shutout any media makers they don’t like. Who the &$#% made the drive manufacturers gods? Those bastards often intentionally don’t provide firmware updates for their products, in order to force you to buy new drives so you can use a wider range of media.

Maybe we need to stop buying and recommending the drives of companies that don’t provide long-term or wide-ranging firmware support, and then I’d bet they take notice. The only company that ever did it right was Philips/BenQ, who not only kept updating 1640 firmware for what seems like forever, but provided a technical means via SolidBurn to insure that even unknown media would be handled in a decent fashion. Now that’s the way it’s supposed to %^%^#$ work. Everyone else needs to be fired or go bankrupt. The rest of these drive makers can kiss my $%@#.

I notice that we in the enthusiast community are always ready to praise the drive makers and bash the media makers, but to me that’s a mistake. The drive makers are in many ways just as responsible for the downward slide in burning quality, and they need to be called on the carpet for it.

It’s correct insofar as international trade law is complex, multi-layered, and multi-jurisdictional, so enforcement is not uniform in the way we are used to thinking about laws within nation-states. Trade law is about agreements between countries. There are no international cops to send when someone breaks a trade law, so things are a bit trickier depending on the context.

Plextor had Autostrategy for the same purpose (co-developed with Taiyo Yuden) introduced in the Plextor PX-716 series and LiteOn has HyperTuning which was first introduced in the 5S series.

Ritek,TDK and Taiyo Yuden have taken some direct actions in europe.

A other point: MediaRange medias for example are not imported to Europe but manufactured in Germany.

No there not.
There made mostly in china. Then printed and repackaged in Germany.
I know that Mediarange likes people to think it’s german made, but the media itself tells me something else. :wink:

Only problem for plextor is that Autostrategy in the first version most times kicked in to late in most cases. The newere version did this better but it seems to be more limited as Philips technology.
From the info I have I think Philips did there homework a bit better as Taiyo Yuden/Plextor on this one. On Lite On’s system I do not have enough data to know what it’s exactly doing.

I agree with dakhaas: Mediarange medias are mostly made in China.
But because they are then printed and repackaged in Germany they are not considered as imported and have the ‘german label’

Mediarange uses MCC-xxx codes for SL and RicohJPN-xxx for DL
Anyway a MID code is [B]hexadecimal[/B] and and written [B]microscopical [/B] somewhere on a blank media where it is not really visible to any customs during the importation.

[B]What I like to know precisely:
is there something like a « copyright » in Europe on the MCC-xxx codes ? [/B]
And has Verbatim done anything against the use of these codes in Europe by Mediarange, Gigatain, … ?

https://dpinfo.dpma.de reports 27 results with MCC in it (12 only contain MCC or MCC), but as I don’t know what the “Leitklassen” mean I can’t tell you more.

What kg_evilboy says is interesting but I am not talking about a trade mark called MCC
but about a [B]microscopical and hexadecimal code [/B]

[B]How can a code like this be copyrighted ?[/B]
0010 : 00 00 07 4d 43 43 00 00 00 00 00 30 30 34 00 38 …MCC…004.8
0020 : 23 54 37 12 02 54 6c 02 92 5f 15 15 0b 0b 08 08 #T7…Tl…_…

Are you going to put a copyright on the numbers 4, 3, 0 and the letter d ?

It’s a code in digital form. I don’t see how it makes a difference that it’s “microscopical” which BTW almost any digital information will be.

All the information available on the Internet is in digital form and stored in “microscopical” code on harddrives around the world. Do you think that makes a difference as to whether it’s copyrighted or trademarked? I don’t.

I am not a lawyer and this is not a legal opinion.

I will wait and see [B]how[/B] Verbatim is going to do something [B]in the real world [/B]

  • on the japanese market
  • or against Mediarange or Gigatain on the european market

[B]Which precise text of law about counterfaiting[/B]
are they going to use for this purpose ?

AFAIK customs are only able to check macroscopic signs like crocodiles on Lacoste shirts, and so on …
Customs are mainly only efficient against macroscopic counterfeighting

Important: what I try to say is [I][B]in no way[/B][/I] a defense of MediaRange MCC’s

I agree :iagree:

A perfect example of using a different media code and getting beautiful results can be seen from a guy called “Tropic” on this forum. I saw his Playo or something Made in China discs. They scan as MCC004 but are fakes, however, PIE < 20,000 PIF < 500 Jitter < 7% average. Ridiculously good result for a faked code.

Read up on the United States law called the Digital Millenium Copyright Act (DMCA). The U.S. has been putting extreme pressure on the rest of the world, especially Europe, to adopt in whole our approach to intellectual property law.

That is what I am trying to say: such a law only exists in the States and not in Europe (AFAIK)