Could it be my 40125s is flawed?

First of all, thanks for the forum and the people here. I found lots useful info. However, I am still having trouble in finding the answers for the questions I have here. Sorry it’s a bit of read.

In short my questions are

  1. Write @48x always finish around 4mins
  2. The confusion of CD quality test results
  3. Can’t produce good quality CD (records at various speeds using various media)

My system is Duron 800MHz, 256MB PC133 SDRAM, IBM 30GB HD 7200rpm, W2K, nero 5.5.9.14 and yes UDMA is enabled.

I have tried vs04,06,08 for my 40125s so far. I have read many people can do 48x with some cheap no-brand 24x media easy. I tested my media with SMARTBURN tools from LiteON, all reported can do 48x (although they are not rated at 48x). I tried Nero simulation and Nero-Speed write transfer test, all finished around 2:40. Only when the actual burning starts, it will slow down at one stage and then finished around 4:00 (no screen saver…etc running in background). Try them with 32x or 40x, finished recording just over 3 mins, which is faster!. :confused: Apart from the quality of CDR media I use, what other possibilities can it be?

Apart from the writing speed, Nero speed - CD quality test (using 40125s) also shows that there are many errors (occasionally damaged) sectors regardless what speed (12x, 16x, 20x …etc)they were recorded and what media (various brands of 16x, 24x, 32x…etc) was used while others reported no errors! Even more frustrated, I don’t get the similar results when test the same cd for several runs! :a

Test them with a Teac532S SCSI drive, most of them have no errors and read smoothly. Is it something to do with Teac532S doesn’t detect C1/C2 errors? Do I really need to worry about those errors I see from 40125s as Teac drive has no problem reading them?

I suspect that there is something wrong with my unit to start with it hence it can’t produce good quality CD, but never seen any case like that. :frowning:

Thanks for reading it all. Any reply will be very much appreciated.

see my post mate ,as i think ure having same prob as i did

post reads question for the pro’s

but basically i found that at 48 it drops dwn to 24 at 47% so i used at proper 48x drive and all was fine which confused me and after loads of messing and wasting disks i used the cdr that came with the 48x and it burnt all the way to 48x on my 40x clocked at 48x

If you are using Nero make it show the actual write speed and not the selected write speed.

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\ahead\Nero - Burning Rom\Recorder and change the dword value of ShowSingleRecorderSpeed key from 0 to 1.

Thanks for the hints. I will try that later when I got home.

I said the following in another thread, but it should be alright to copy here too. Cuz even if I gave up with this O/C thing, it is still not doing very well :frowning:

I only burned a few of my CDs at 40x or 32x and that is when I bought the drive. After I noticed the quality results were so shocking and confusing, I burned them all no more than 16x now. But that doesn’t seem to improve the quality either. At the moment, I am pretending I didn’t see those results :stuck_out_tongue:

I guess you will probably want to say that my media are all craps (I thought about it too…:P). But then I burned a Mandrake 9.0 Installation CD using Verbatim DataLifePlus 16x CD @12x with original firmware for 40125s (which is considered good media right?) recently. Still about 40% errors. I also tested with WSES, which I only got hold of it very recently, and had similar result.

Could it really just be that my unit is flawed?

cdfreaksck
You need to be more specific about what media you are using.
Verbatim is not all it’s cracked up to be, particularly in the new drives. You got to get some decent high-speed media.
What is the drive light doing when you get these slow burns, what is the real-time speed indication?

Originally posted by rdgrimes
cdfreaksck
You need to be more specific about what media you are using.
Verbatim is not all it’s cracked up to be, particularly in the new drives. You got to get some decent high-speed media.
What is the drive light doing when you get these slow burns, what is the real-time speed indication?

okie, let’s focus on CD quality issue. Ignore the O/C part first, as I burn most of CDs no faster than 16x with LiteON due to the quality and speed issue.

My system’s info is shown below if this will help you to diagnose where my unit’s probelm is.
AMD Duron@800MHz
ABIT KT7
Kingmax PC150 256MB
IBM 30GB ATA66(1st Master)
Quantum Firball 4.2G (2nd master)
LiteOn 40125S@48125W VS08 (2nd slave)
Teac532s SCSI CDROM
W2K SP3
Nero 5.5.9.14
(I also did some burning under W2K SP2 and Nero 5.5.9.0 earlier, similar problems)
ASPI 4.71

As I said it before, most of CD I burned (usually 16x sometime 12x or 8x)are way below their rated speed (24x~32x). Some of them are CMC, so let’s forget about them. I bought them (Philip, and other lables) for my old Sony948S long time ago and didn’t realise they are CMC until recently.

Just take the Verbatim DataLifePlus 700MB 16x CDR Metal-AZO for my case.

 Disc Type, Material = CD-R, Cyanine
        ATIP Lead-in = 97m 34s 21f
   Norminal Capacity = 702.83MB (79m 59s 74f)

Disc Manufacturer maybe = Verbatim (Metal AZO)
SMART-BURN Speed Limit = 24X

I use them to burn Mandrake 9.0 CD1 and 2. Both were done with 40125s ZS0k, 12x. Drive’s light is red during the burning process and tasks completed around 7mins

The test results shown below were done by LiteON 40125s O/C 48125W @ vs08. Both CDs have no unreadable sectors.

For CD1, CD quality test shows 30631304 errors :a between 20 to 40 mins marks. ScanDisc shows 63.75% damaged (only in the middle region)

For CD2, CD quality test shows 37139243 errors :a between 25 to 45 mins marks. ScanDisc shows 34.62% damaged (again only in the middle region)

I don’t quite understand what you meant by “make sure your reads are not the source of the errors.”, baracus.

I checked the md5 values before burn them into CDs. Testing these CDs with Teac532s shows perfect results.

Thanks again for helping me out here. :smiley:

Your media is certainly part of the problem, though maybe not all of it. I have had the same experience with an O/C drive have many read errors. Remember, what you are measuring is READ errors, not write quality. The wave of errors in mid-disc is also consistant with what I have seen on a O/C drive with poor media.
VS06-8 should give the lowest measure of these errors, but ZS0N will give you the best reads (40x).
It’s also important to note that the read-errors and the slow burn speeds are 2 separate issues, though both may be related to the media.
You may well have a “problem” drive, but without testing it using high-quality media you cannot be sure. The Verbatim is marginal.

Same problem, I’m using Verbatim manufacturer Mitsubishi Chemicals Corp., and Taiyo Yuden.
http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=56359

Originally posted by rdgrimes
Remember, what you are measuring is READ errors, not write quality. The wave of errors in mid-disc is also consistant with what I have seen on a O/C drive with poor media.

Alright, so for my liteon the result looks bad. But from my Teac532s SCSI, it looks perfect for most of them. Any ideas why is that? And which result should I use? Maybe I will test them with ZS0N later as well.


You may well have a “problem” drive, but without testing it using high-quality media you cannot be sure. The Verbatim is marginal.

How about I test it with That’s CDR Ceramic Coat and normal one?
hmm btw before I go out and buy more media. How good is the CDR blank that come with the LiteON. I probably can use it to test.

I don’t think you are alone here. I have had similar results on 2 different 40125s as well. The simulation seems to indicate that the drive can handle 48x etc. However when put to the real test the drive slows down to 24x somewhere around 60% or so. I tried different media even with Taiyo Yuden certified 48x media I had the same results. I also tried every firmware to date except vs04, and had the same results. I ended up going back to the original firmware intended for the drive zs0n and have had no problems since. I can only conclude that there must be some differences between the drives that have been sucessfully O/C’d and the ones that have not or the people claiming sucessful O/Cing are only performing simulations and not actual burns.

Alright, so for my liteon the result looks bad. But from my Teac532s SCSI, it looks perfect for most of them. Any ideas why is that? And which result should I use? Maybe I will test them with ZS0N later as well.

Like i said, you are measuring READ errors, every drive will show different results, and even the same drive will show different results on successive reads.

Originally posted by rdgrimes

Like i said, you are measuring READ errors, every drive will show different results, and even the same drive will show different results on successive reads.

Yes I understand that. I guess what I was saying is that, I tested the CDs with Teac532S several times and the results are quite perfect and very consistent. With LiteON, the results are shocking and confusing.

Does this mean that LiteON can’t read CDs as good as Teac?
or
Does this indicate that LiteON can pick up stuffs that Teac can’t.

I noticed that Nero Info Tool says the Teac drive can’t detect C2 errors.

Originally posted by scadillawork
I I can only conclude that there must be some differences between the drives that have been sucessfully O/C’d and the ones that have not or the people claiming sucessful O/Cing are only performing simulations and not actual burns.

as I said in another thread, could it be that o/c our drives is similar to o/c CPUs?

Remember when the AMD duron 600, 700 and 800MHz were released?
They are identical in every aspects (right?). They were rated as different clock speed as AMD had done some tests with them and guarantee they will run (at least) at their rated speed.

It’s always possible to o/c a slower cpu but there is no guarantee that you will be able to achieve the same speed as others even though they are identical stuffs.

That’s my guess to this. :stuck_out_tongue:

I just bought That’s RV 700MB 48x media.
I believe this is an excellent quality media right?
Could anyone provide me with any comments on this particular media before I open and test them tonight.

Okie I had burned one RedHat 8.0 Installation CD (644MB) and one Mandrake 9.0 Installation CD (695MB) with That’s RV 700MB 48x media

This Disc is designed for CD-RW/COMBO Drive Only.
Disc Type, Material = CD-R, Cyanine
ATIP Lead-in = 97m 24s 01f
Norminal Capacity = 702.83MB (79m 59s 72f)
Disc Manufacturer maybe = Taiyoyuden DX-dye
SMART-BURN Speed Limit = 48X

Both ISOs were MD5 checksum verified.

For RedHat, it’s 644MB and I burned it using VS08 at 48 speed setting
The progress was good, reached 44.5x at 90% smoothly then slowed down to 32x for the rest.

For Mandrake, it’s 695MB and I burned it using ZS0N at 40 speed setting.
The progress was even better, reached and finished it at 40x smoothly.

Then I tested both CDs using VS08 and ZS0N under Nero CD Speed and WSES. The results? quite confusing :frowning: (No pix yet. I will figure out where to upload them soon. Sorry about this)

For RedHat.

Tested under VS08 - Nero CD Speed - CD quality shows
At 20mins, speed dropped from 32x to 2~4x and a sharp errors raised there. From 50 to 58 mins, another big drop from 42x to aroun 6x and lots errors. Total errors : 10888901 :frowning:

Tested under VS08 - WSES shows
something similar to standard distribution with C1 scale set to 3000 and some C2 (at 20) errors in the middle region.

Tested under ZS0N - Nero CD Speed - CD quality shows
From 25 to 35 mins, speed dropped from 33x to 12x and lots errors. Then again from 50 to 72 mins, some errors there but no much speed drop except at around 65mins. Total errors : 8084087

Tested under ZS0N - WSES shows
slowly raising from the begin and varied a lot in the second half. (C1 at 100) but no C2 error.

For Mandrake,

Tested under VS08 - Nero CD Speed - CD quality shows
At 20mins, speed dropped from 32x to 2~4x and a sharp errors raised there. From 50 to 58 mins, another big drop from 42x to aroun 12x and lots errors. Total errors : 12525897 :frowning:

Tested under VS08 - WSES shows
a big raise at around 60% then slowly declined (C1 at 400). no C2 error.

Tested under ZS0N - Nero CD Speed - CD quality shows
Almost perfect except some errors at the end. Total errors : 2928

Tested under ZS0N - WSES shows
a bit of jumping up and down in the in the second half. (C1 at 75) but no C2 error.

What is going on with my drive?! :frowning:

1st suggestion is to only test errors using the firmware that it was burned in, or better yet, use a different drive altogether for read tests if you are comparing discs/firmwares. Remember you are testing READ errors, not write quality per se, so you need to compare apples to apples and use a consistant read strategy.

Sorry, can’t insert all the images in one post
for Mandrake, they are here.

For Mandrake,

Tested under VS08 - Nero CD Speed - CD quality shows
At 20mins, speed dropped from 32x to 2~4x and a sharp errors raised there. From 50 to 58 mins, another big drop from 42x to aroun 12x and lots errors. Total errors : 12525897 :frowning:

Tested under VS08 - WSES shows
a big raise at around 60% then slowly declined (C1 at 400). no C2 error.

Tested under ZS0N - Nero CD Speed - CD quality shows
Almost perfect except some errors at the end. Total errors : 2928

Tested under ZS0N - WSES shows
a bit of jumping up and down in the in the second half. (C1 at 75) but no C2 error.

What is going on with my drive?! :frowning:

rdgrimes, I do understand what you are saying here.

I am really curious to know how many members here will burn a CD with an O/C firmware and test it with the original one. but, sure, I can do the test the errors with my original firmware later.

As I mentioned it before and none yet offer me any feedback for it, I have three drive here. LiteON 40125s, Teac532s, and Sony948s. Testing those CDs with Teac532s, the results are good. With LiteON… well you had read the whole story. So which one should I believe?

Is this saying the LiteON can do the tests at lower level than the Teac as the Teac is several years old unit.

Or is it saying that my LiteON is flawed in reading CDs??

I did this cross testing on these two CDs to see

  1. Can they burn at the max speed for their corresponding firmwares?
  2. How well can the drive read these CDs using different firmwares?
  3. I also test them with my Teac unit, like I said, they are almost perfect so i didn’t post the results here.

It really doesn’t matter if I can burn the CD at 48x or not. I am only doing it for fun.

I guess it’s fair and reasonable for me to expect that I should be able to at least burn a That’s RV CD at 40x and has no reading error (or maybe just a few) with it right?

Thanks all, I think I will give it up now.
going back to 40125s ZS0N and no testing on LiteON drive.
That should make my life easier. :stuck_out_tongue:
Thanks again for all the helps.

What i said was: write and read with the same firmware, ie:
If you write the disc with VS08, read it with VS08. My own experience is that this produces the best read results.
Since you do not specify which error tests are which, in tems of what you used to burn it and read it, I can’t say much other than it appears the drive does not like being overclocked. Some people report similar problems with O/C’d drives, I also have a 40x drive that does similar things. Some 40x drives are not up to using the 48x firmware.
One thing is certain: you can’t compare reading and writing quality with the same test and different drives. Find the best combination of media and burn speed for the firmware that you are using.
Also, it does not appear that your drive is one of the better ones.
The “better reader” will show fewer errors, or more, depending on how you interpret “better”. Confusing? Yup.:confused:
Is the better reader the one that shows errors, or the one that doesn’t? The one that shows fewer errors is just more forgiving of marginal burn quality, but that doesn’t make it a better CDR. It makes the drive a “better” reader. A “perfect” burn will read well in most every drive.
If you want to compare reading quality in different drives, use the same disc with known quality. If you want to compare write quality, use the same reader/firmware and compare different discs that are burned with different strategies. Hope I haven’t made it more confusing.