Copy Protections SEGA SATURN

vbimport

#1

You all talk about copy protections on the PSX as being really hard have you ever considered the Sega Saturns Copy protection a ring that cannot be read at all. Now thats a copy protection that may never get broken. At least you can buy boot discs for the PSX.


#2

…do you have technical revelations?


#3

I have scanned and labled the saturn CD to show what i mean. Check out here: -

Saturn CD Scan


#4

5:1 odds that the marker trick works on sega saturn. and your link is dead.


#5

You dont understand you cant copy it because its outside the TOC and data area, the ring is required its like the BOOT Activation code. ANd you cant make a copy of it onto a CDR. Without the outer ring it wont boot these can only be put onto the CD at a manufacuturing place. THere are Supposidly inhouse sega CDR that have the boot code already built on so you can burn and play of course not for the outside world.
The link works For Me weird? Try going to the site

http://www.geocities.com/cosmothehamster/

And selecting the image manually.


#6

What I am waiting for is someone to come up with mediatek command sets! I’m somehow sure that they allow much RAWer writing than RAW96R…and until this is proven or disproven, it is not clear at all whether it’s possible or not to create that ring.


#7

The point is no one knows if this seperate ring is data or just a tpye of holigraphic image since it has words on the the out side track saying Sega Enterprises LTD. Some people wreckon it could be a short audio track but who knows. Until someone creates a program that will ignore the toc and read as far out as the laser will go i doubt protection like this would be easy enough. I was hoping cdrwins Sector viewer would ignore the TOC and allow you to set the position of the laser see if it would find anything.


#8

“What I am waiting for is someone to come up with mediatek command sets! I’m somehow sure that they allow much RAWer writing than RAW96R…”

What do you mean? What kind of writing they might allow for example?


#9
  • write data beyond leadout
  • read/write 3136+96 bytes/sector (certainly not useful for this protection!)

If the chipset itself allows to write data beyond leadout, then such a ring could be generated, if it indeed contains data.

But someone should find out what the ring actually is, otherwise this discussion is not going to lead anywhere :wink:


#10

It is possible to write data beyond leadout already with the MMC commands in RAW DAO 96 writing mode. It’s just that no program has implemented this. I’m thinking to include this into my tool, but I’m not sure of the best way how to include it, i.e. as part of the main sector image file or as a totally separate extra image file.

But alexnoe is right, we need to know what data is inside of that ring. Once we know and it’s just normal data written in the normal way then it should be no problem copying the Saturn CDs.


#11
  • read/write 3136+96 bytes/sector (certainly not useful for this protection!)

Whenever I do the math, I get 3138 bytes…?

btw, CloneCD allows writing past the leadout entry in the TOC.


#12

I don’t mean past the leadout entry, but I mean
-> write leadin
-> write data
-> write leadout
-> write more data
(or does RAW96R allow to write the entire leadout RAW as well? In this case, it would of course be already possible by writing some data inbetween which look like a leadout :wink: )

Why 3138?
32*98 = 3136… where do the other 2 bytes come from?


#13

Oh, I assumed you meant F3 frame (with a control byte), then made the silly mistake of putting in the subchannel with the sector, and since (33-32)*98 is 2 away from 96, I got the different answer.


#14

Hey Truman when will this tool be released it would really be useful from what u tell us. All we need to know is the Starting of where the Protection Rings position since it would be the same for all cd’s and then a copy of the data/audio or whatever stored in the protection ring and dump it to an image. This is a copy protection which is fairly unique, still if the sega saturn had of succedded i bet they would have figured out the protection by now. At the moment the only way to boot a CD without a protection is to get MOD chip(starting to become rare) or disk swap which damages the Motor. Im hoping one day the protection will be figured out because the saturn has some great games but are hard to get these days.

A sector viewer that didnt rely on the TOC would be really handy and allowed you to position the laser where you wanted e.g. to the selected sector or Minute number of the CD


#15

Is there any program at the moment that will read the cd by ignoring the toc and reading all the way to the end of the cd whatever its size. Even if you could specifiy the length of the CD so it would read and dump everything that far out to an image.


#16

Originally posted by Quakester2000
Is there any program at the moment that will read the cd by ignoring the toc and reading all the way to the end of the cd whatever its size. Even if you could specifiy the length of the CD so it would read and dump everything that far out to an image.

Yes. It’s more often a drive problem than a software problem, though.


#17

Will this program read all the way to the end of the CD even if theres no data there? And where can i get it?


#18

“- read/write 3136+96 bytes/sector (certainly not useful for this protection!)”

Where that 3136 bytes comes from? I thought that a raw sector has only 2352+96 bytes?

And by the way, maybe mediatek would give their command sets if we would ask them?


#19

I still cant get an answer on wether there is a program that will read all the way to the end of a disc and dump whats there? And if there isnt a program could a program like this be developed? This would be excellent for breaking this Sega Saturn protection!


#20

Originally posted by Supi Suomalaine
[B]"- read/write 3136+96 bytes/sector (certainly not useful for this protection!)"

Where that 3136 bytes comes from? I thought that a raw sector has only 2352+96 bytes?
[/B]

error correction