Compression

Hi,

I am sorry if I am putting this in the wrong place. I am rather blonde when it comes to forums and proper placement and freely admit it! :slight_smile:

My question may only be able to be answered by the author of the software and so, I hope he (or someone very knowledgable about the program) has a few minutes to entertain my ignorance. :slight_smile:

I have been using DVDShrink for processing the movies I buy, to make copies (I never play the originals, for fear they will get damaged) and I have been using DVDShrink, because its compression technology is so great! But now that HD/Blueray is going to be the way to go within a year or so and DVDShrink is not updated anymore (which was free, so who can complain?), I know that I will have to get a different package that handles HD/Blueray as well as regular DVD’s. However, my fear is that I will not get the same quality of picture using compression that I do with DVDShrink.

Now I do not pretend to be a wiz at what is necessary to make great quality compressed videos, but I do know that DVDShrink has two options (I have included the explanations, according to the DOOM9 web site after each option:

  1. Perform deep analysis before backup to improve quality

Explanation: You can check Perform Deep Analysis before backup to improve
quality, which doubles the encoding time, but ensures that the output size
is accurate and helps to increase quality. If you have performed the deep
analysis before (by pressing the Analysis button), this option will not be
selectable.

  1. Compress video with high quality adaptive error compensation

Explanation: Compress video with high quality adaptive error compensation
can be activated to increase the quality of the output significantly. When
activated, DVD Shrink will compare original and compressed frames, detect
compression artifacts and take measures to compensate. You have several
options how the error correction can work:

Sharp will tend to preserve the sharpness of the original, possibly at
the expense of fluidity of the picture. Alternatively, you can put the focus
on fluidity and select Smooth, and then there is also an extreme sharpness
and smoothness setting.

Note that activating this option will also significantly increase your encoding
time, so if speed is all you care about, you should use neither of the options
on this tab.

So what is my question? Well, in thinking about switching and buying DVDFab Platinum (which has had good reviews from what I’ve seen), I am wondering how the compression quality will compare to what I am using now. I mean, does it have these options? I didn’t see it when I tried it out. So maybe they are built in by default? Or maybe they are called something else?

As I said, I’m no genius with this stuff, but I know that when using DVDShrink and I check these options, that it makes one pass and then a second one, to implement these features while processing during the second pass, because if I don’t check them, then it only makes one pass and there is a big difference in quality!

I want to get the best reproduction that I can! DVDShrink was a great program, especially being free and all. But I am willing to pay, if the program is going to do what that one did. As I said, I know that eventually I’m going to have to switch, when HD/Blueray blanks get to a reasonable price and discs are coming out only that way and I would like to get used to using something ahead of time and get it over with, prior to being forced to. I don’t have to do it now, obviously, but I would like to switch fairly soon. So I am asking now about various programs. I did ask this once before, but the answer was that it should compare okay and to use Progressive mode on my DVD player, but I am looking for specific information, please. :slight_smile:

So can someone (maybe the author) who is familiar with what I’m talking about, please help me to understand how DVDFab Platinum handles this and has anyone made a comparison, with using compression of say, 75% or something?

Now one last thing, please. I am not discussing using hardly any software technology and then making up for it using “Progressive” mode on your DVD player. I am talking about a raw comparison, without the DVD player trying to make up for the lack of software ability (not to say that DVDFab is lacking, I am just asking about it), understand what I mean?

I don’t have a HD/Blueray player yet and I don’t use “Progressive” mode on my DVD player and I like to make sure that no matter what DVD player I use and that it will look the same (sometimes I bring movies to my friends house, who has a bigger TV which makes the viewing nicer, but an old DVD player and so, I need the DVD copy to look right no matter what)!

So please, advice on DVD player tricks is not what I’m looking for. Without employing any, can someone please answer my questions? I would really appreciate it, especially if they can be specific about the questions I asked. As I said, it may be that only the author can answer them and I’m sorry about being so particular, but I like to have specific answers to specific questions. I guess I’m just anal that way and apologize for that up front! :slight_smile:

Thanks! :slight_smile:

Dave

Nice post.

From my views, DVD Shrink give better results than DVDFab Platinum. DVDFab Platinum does not have those settings you spoke about. You could try the trial if you’d like.

My advice for quality is either burn to DL or use DVD Rebuilder (link is in my sig). DVD Rebuilder encodes while DVD Shrink/DVDFab Platinum transcodes. Encoding rebuilds the picture from scratch while transcoders do not.

Have a read of this thread: http://forum.digital-digest.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49635

[QUOTE=linx05;1950655]Nice post.

From my views, DVD Shrink give better results than DVDFab Platinum. DVDFab Platinum does not have those settings you spoke about. You could try the trial if you’d like.

My advice for quality is either burn to DL or use DVD Rebuilder (link is in my sig). DVD Rebuilder encodes while DVD Shrink/DVDFab Platinum transcodes. Encoding rebuilds the picture from scratch while transcoders do not.

Have a read of this thread: http://forum.digital-digest.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49635[/QUOTE]

Thank you for the compliment and your kind response. :slight_smile:

I will have a look at that thread, thank you.

I was wondering, would you possibly have just a few minutes to explain the difference between encoders and transcoders to me? Just a brief layman’s paragraph is all. :slight_smile:

Also, are you saying that DVDShrink is a transcoder and DVDFab is an encoder?

Gee, what will we do without DVDShrink then??? Too bad we couldn’t coax the author out for one more round with HD/Blueray capability, huh? Or coax the author of DVDFab into adding those features. Whadda ya think? Email campaign? <lol> :slight_smile:

And may I ask you some questions, please?

  1. What do you mean by “burn to DL”?

  2. Why recommend “DVD Rebuilder”? I mean, if DVDShrink is great,
    why would I need an encoder, instead of another transcoder with
    options, like DVDShrink?

Thanks for your response and you have been very helpful. There’s just a couple of terms that you used that I don’t fully understand and it confused me when you agreed with me about DVDShrink having better quality and then said to use an encoder like DVDRebuilder, instead of a transcoder like DVDShrink. Or were you saying that yes, DVDShrink is better, but an encoder is even better than that?

I will take a look at DVDRebuilder. Thanks! :slight_smile:

Dave

[QUOTE=linx05;1950655]Nice post.

My advice for quality is either burn to DL or use DVD Rebuilder (link is in my sig).

[/QUOTE]

Forgive my ignorance, but I do not see your “sig”. i do know what a sig is (I use usenet news groups), but I do not see one in your message, unless it is your name on the left side or something? I can find the program I’m sure, but I thought I would ask, so at least I know where your sig is on this web site, or maybe it isn’t getting added and you didn’t realize this and so, I could let you know, if that turns out to be the case.

Thanks again! :slight_smile:

Dave

Hi :slight_smile:
DL = Dual layer so no need for compression.
Sig or signature is located at bottom of post. See attached (black oblong).
The particular link (Red oblong).


The actual site is
http://www.jdobbs.com/

[QUOTE=zebadee;1950815]Hi :slight_smile:
DL = Dual layer so no need for compression.
Sig or signature is located at bottom of post. See attached (black oblong).
The particular link (Red oblong).


The actual site is
http://www.jdobbs.com/[/QUOTE]

I am probably being blonde again, but I don’t see a “black oblong” at the bottom. :slight_smile:

As for dual layer, that would mean buying dual layer blanks, whioch are more than this po’ white trash can afford! <lol> And I usually just do the “Main Movie” and so, don’t compress down to 49% or anything that far. But even at 61%, DVDShrink does a H*ll of a job! :slight_smile:

Thanks for the quick response! :slight_smile:

Dave

Hi :slight_smile:
I added the the black oblong to highlight the sig area.
Try this one.

Yes DL would mean spending more on media.
Shrink is very good.
But DVD Rebuilder is better, takes a lot longer though.
See all about DVD Rebuilder @ www.jdobbs.com/

[QUOTE=zebadee;1950824]Hi :slight_smile:
I added the the black oblong to highlight the sig area.
Try this one.

Yes DL would mean spending more on media.
Shrink is very good.
But DVD Rebuilder is better, takes a lot longer though.
See all about DVD Rebuilder @ www.jdobbs.com/[/QUOTE]

Okay, thanks for everything! And I don’t mind the time, because I just upgraded to a dual core 3.0GHz CPU and 2 GB of RAM and a new, fast hard drive, so it probably won’t be any slower than it used to be with Shrink on the old setup.

Gee, just when I thought things were gonna get faster, you had to show up and link me to slower software <hahaha!> :slight_smile:

Thanks again! :slight_smile:

Dave

[QUOTE=linx05;1950655]Nice post.

From my views, DVD Shrink give better results than DVDFab Platinum. DVDFab Platinum does not have those settings you spoke about. You could try the trial if you’d like.

My advice for quality is either burn to DL or use DVD Rebuilder (link is in my sig). DVD Rebuilder encodes while DVD Shrink/DVDFab Platinum transcodes. Encoding rebuilds the picture from scratch while transcoders do not.

Have a read of this thread: http://forum.digital-digest.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49635[/QUOTE]

First of all, thank you for putting up with my ignorance!

Secondly, I went and looked at DVD Rebuilder. It seems like A LOT of work though! It says I need to have a bunch of stuff besides the program itself and it only lets me download the freeware version, but I didn’t see a comparison of that with the Pro version and I didn’t know what I would get with the Pro version, above the free version.

Also, I downloaded ImgBurn, as it said that would be best and I wanted to make sure that I was doing what I am supposed to be doing to make the program work at its peak efficiency.

Do I need all of this other stuff in the link that you gave me? I ask, because some of the things I clicked on didn’t work. The page was non-existent.

So can i just download the full installer of the free version and use it with ImgBurn? Or should i get the Pro version and why?

I’m sorry to ask you all these questions, but you seem to know a lot about it and so, you know people like me will bother you, so as my wife says, “Suck it up, man!”. Just kidding! Hahaha! :slight_smile:

All seriousness aside though, I admit that i am a bit lost, but it may just be due to outdated info on these links. I went right to the web site for the program, but when i clicked on the link to email the author, it said that that part of the web page isn’t working.

Thanks again for any help you can give me! The program sounds good from what you said and I do want the best!

Don’t misunderstand me, once I get it going, I can take it from there and use the program, just like I did many other video programs. It’s just the initial phase that I am having an issue with, regarding this program, because it isn’t laid out in an easy format, to understand what it is I would be getting and it says on some pages that I need and that also and so, I am just trying to save myself hours of work that turns out to be unnecessary, if I get the “full installer”.

Thanks guy! I really do appreciate it! And there are many things in the PC world that I am very knowledgable about and I would be glad to return the favor, such as with difficult hardware questions. Software is not really my forte, when I’m first starting out with it, but hardware is my thing! :slight_smile:

Dave

Hi :slight_smile:
To start with try DVD Rebuilder free. [B][U]LINK:[/U][/B] {All the bits & bobs included in the installer}.
(To get a link for the the Pro version, you need to donate).
It may not be for you.
Even those who use it, probably use other s/w the majority of the time.
If you want something more , just click & go.
Then AnyDVD + CloneDVD2, DVDFab Platinum, 1Click Pro, DirectneXtCopy are some of the s/w you should look at.
All have free trial periods.
A lot of folk do use DVDFab HD Decrypter for ripping. [B][U]LINK:[/U][/B]
DVDShrink to compress. [B][U]LINK:[/U][/B]
ImgBurn for burning. [B][U]LINK:[/U][/B]
These links work as I’ve just tried them. :cool:

Basically, just download the free version of DVD Rebuilder (see the link zebadee linked to) and update HCencoder. Then just check out the guides

I have donated to get the PRO version but try the free version out for a while. It will give you better looking DVDs via compression in no time.

Hi Dave and welcome to the DVDFab forum. If the commercials for other software are over, I will try to actually answer some of the questions in your original post.

First, if you have questions about DVDShrink, the Official site is at http://www.dvdshrink.org/forum/ . There are many knowledgeable users there who can answer any questions you may have.

As a user of both DVDShrink and DVDFab, I have found that both do a good job, suitable for viewing even on large HDTVs, with moderate amounts of compression and assuming a good encoding job on the original disc. DVDFab seems to run faster for me than Shrink did and has the added benefit of frequent updates. I have had problems (other than the long processing time) with the adaptive error compensation in DVDShrink at the “sharp” setting in scenes with fast motion or large changes (day to night, indoors to out, etc). The results you would get at 75% would proably be fine with most movies with either one, but this is subjective and you should try for yourself to decide if it meets your standards. DVDFab’s author has stated that his transcoder is suitable for TVs up to 60" at 70% compression. DVDShrink is free and you can try DVDFab Platinum free for 30 days. You can read more about DVDFab’s features in its Tutorial which is available at the link in my sig (the one that says “Official Guide…”). I will not provide red boxes around it, I’m sure you picked that up from the other posts.:slight_smile:

The suggestions the others made are all good products, but all also are not as convenient as DVDFab and will take longer to process your backups.

Final suggestion: try before you buy.

[QUOTE=signals;1951370]DVDFab’s author has stated that his transcoder is suitable for TVs up to 60" at 70% compression.[/QUOTE]
Remember it isn’t the compression percentage which matters.

[quote=linx05;1951502]Remember it isn’t the compression percentage which matters.[/quote]As I have said many times, it is not [B]only[/B] the compression percentage that matters. More bits are [B]always[/B] better, all other things being equal.

Well, quant is another huge factor signals - but I don’t wanna go into a long dissertation. :bigsmile:

Regards

LOL, thanks for that.:slight_smile: You’ll not find me as easy to lure into a “good Barney” as some of the others!

[QUOTE=linx05;1951184]Basically, just download the free version of DVD Rebuilder (see the link zebadee linked to) and update HCencoder. Then just check out the guides

I have donated to get the PRO version but try the free version out for a while. It will give you better looking DVDs via compression in no time.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for your help! :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=signals;1951370]Hi Dave and welcome to the DVDFab forum. If the commercials for other software are over, I will try to actually answer some of the questions in your original post.

First, if you have questions about DVDShrink, the Official site is at http://www.dvdshrink.org/forum/ . There are many knowledgeable users there who can answer any questions you may have.

As a user of both DVDShrink and DVDFab, I have found that both do a good job, suitable for viewing even on large HDTVs, with moderate amounts of compression and assuming a good encoding job on the original disc. DVDFab seems to run faster for me than Shrink did and has the added benefit of frequent updates. I have had problems (other than the long processing time) with the adaptive error compensation in DVDShrink at the “sharp” setting in scenes with fast motion or large changes (day to night, indoors to out, etc). The results you would get at 75% would proably be fine with most movies with either one, but this is subjective and you should try for yourself to decide if it meets your standards. DVDFab’s author has stated that his transcoder is suitable for TVs up to 60" at 70% compression. DVDShrink is free and you can try DVDFab Platinum free for 30 days. You can read more about DVDFab’s features in its Tutorial which is available at the link in my sig (the one that says “Official Guide…”). I will not provide red boxes around it, I’m sure you picked that up from the other posts.:slight_smile:

The suggestions the others made are all good products, but all also are not as convenient as DVDFab and will take longer to process your backups.

Final suggestion: try before you buy.[/QUOTE]

Amen to try before you buy! <lol> :slight_smile:

Thanks for your time in making your comments. I appreciate it!

As for the “commercials”, are you saying that the other folks work for the companies, or are just in love with the products? <laugh> :slight_smile:

I like DVDFab. But I just haven’t really tried it with compression and again, bear in mind, I am talking about the job it would do, without any “progressive” help from a DVD player, or TV. Just bare bones, how does it look, with hardware player and TV features missing, for “progressive” mode.

As for your “sharp” comment, I personally have not had any issues with that and I have processed a movie at 61% compression and with the exception of thin black bars at the top and bottom on a widescreen movie (which were outside of the video area), it looked great! I did notice that on my Shield discs, at 52%, it did look slightly worse than TV, but hey, what do you expect at 52%? :slight_smile:

Again, thank you for taking the time to talk to me about it. As I said, I am not a genius at the technical aspects of software like this and I am a hardware and OS guy and at that, I would sing a different tune, but for this type of thing, I rely on kind folks like all those who replied here, to help me stumble through these software questions. :slight_smile:

Thanks!

Dave

[QUOTE=linx05;1951502]Remember it isn’t the compression percentage which matters.[/QUOTE]

Please forgive my ignorance, but how can it be that the percentage doesn’t matter???

[QUOTE=signals;1951600]As I have said many times, it is not [B]only[/B] the compression percentage that matters. More bits are [B]always[/B] better, all other things being equal.[/QUOTE]

Hi! :slight_smile: You guys must really be annoyed with me, being this ignorant about this stuff and being a hardware guy, I know it can be annoying to have to go through the basics on a daily basis, but I’ll ask anyway! <lol> :slight_smile:

What do you mean, “more bits are always better”? I know what a “bit” is, but what does that mean in relation to processing video? I mean, the video had a certain amount of bits and that’s that, no? So what are you talking about? Do you mean that these programs perform a lossy technology and some “lose” less than others?

Thanks!

Dave