Compatibility with third-party post-processing software

vbimport

#1

I know this issue has been discussed before, but when I searched I couldn’t find anything in a clean, separate thread.

Output from DVDfab Platinum version 4.0.6.2 works great as input to either DVD Shrink or DVD Rebuilder. Of course, since this is an older version, it cannot handle some newer DVDs.

I’m not sure about any versions in the range 4.0.6.3 - 4.0.7.9 .

Starting with 4.0.8.0, and continuing thru 5.0.4.5 beta, output from DVDfab fails in DVD Rebuilder 1.26.0 . The pattern is predictable. Rebuilder opens the ripped DVD okay. The Prepare phase and Encode phase complete just fine. But in the third phase, Rebuild, an error occurs. A typical error message is:
“Error in UpdateIFO:VTS_01 VOBID: 03/CELLID 01 was not found in the VOB”.

Of course, the details vary, but it always seems to be a CELLID not found in a VOB.

Is there any intention on the part of Fengtao or Ting to restore this compatibility?

I would prefer doing all my ripping with DVDfab, but that’s not always possible. My current procedure is to try Fab 4.0.6.2 first. If it can handle the DVD, then the output will probably work with Rebuilder. If Fab 4.0.6.2 cannot handle the DVD, I next try RipIt4Me. Again, if it can handle the DVD, the output is probably okay for Rebuilder. If RipIt4Me cannot handle the DVD, then I try the latest Fab (currently 5.0.4.5 beta). But if I use the latest version of Fab, I’m stuck with inferior transcoded compression.

From some of the things I’ve read, I know this is not as straightforward as it appears, and there are differing interpretations of “standards compliant”. Still, there should be some way to accomodate these third-party post-processing programs. Perhaps some advanced settings switches to let users select which method is used for dealing with certain types of structure protection.

An even better feature would be if DVDfab Platinum were enhanced to include functionality similar to Rebuilder, to perform full re-encoding using optional third-party encoders. Hey, I can dream, can’t I?


#2

If the DVD will rip with PathPlayer disabled it may not have this issue. I have used several V5+ rips (PP enabled) in DVDShrink (to get the set begin/endpoints) with no problem.


#3

Update your DVD Rebuilder. The latest is 1.27.3, check the email you registered with and download the update.


#4

@signals

Thanks, I’ll try that. But that still won’t help with the DVDs that need PathPlayer.

@linx05

Thanks. I’ll have to try the latest Rebuilder.


#5

@BitSmasher

Not necessarily the ideal answer but try running the output through FixVTS before processing in DVD Shrink or DVD Rebuilder.

[B]Wombler[/B]


#6

[QUOTE=Wombler;2086977]@BitSmasher

Not necessarily the ideal answer but try running the output through FixVTS before processing in DVD Shrink or DVD Rebuilder.

[B]Wombler[/B][/QUOTE]

i don’t understand this need to run dvdfab output through another program - what’s wrong with just burning & watching DVDfab output files ?

what is the benefit , if any, of applying more processing ?


#7

[QUOTE=cybmole;2087537]i don’t understand this need to run dvdfab output through another program - what’s wrong with just burning & watching DVDfab output files ?

what is the benefit , if any, of applying more processing ?[/QUOTE]
To compress the DVD to fit on a single layer or to apply filters which can change the look of the picture.


#8

[QUOTE=cybmole;2087537]i don’t understand this need to run dvdfab output through another program - what’s wrong with just burning & watching DVDfab output files ?

what is the benefit , if any, of applying more processing ?[/QUOTE]

The OP wanted to run process the rip in other software.

One reason can be for higher output quality using alternative encoders.

FixVTS does exactly what it says and makes the files compliant which will allow them to be processed in the software of your choice.

It’s a very quick process as it’s only correcting errors in the DVD structure.

[B]Wombler[/B]


#9

[QUOTE=Wombler;2087597]The OP wanted to run process the rip in other software.

One reason can be for higher output quality using alternative encoders.

[B]Wombler[/B][/QUOTE]

is there a significant difference, compared with dvdfab built in compression ?

I find that many movies will fit on SL anyway if main movie option is used to strip extra languages & menus & unnecessary audio streams.

For those that don’t quite fit, then it is often the case that DVDshrink can get to 100% quality by trimming start & end credits, using it in reauthor mode on the DVDfab output. ( DVDfab output seems fully compliant with DVDshrink ).

I’d say 8 out of 10 movies can be put on SL with zero compression using the above methods, & if you must have the extras, they can be put on a separate disc using customise mode to copy everything except the main movie.

for the odd movie that is not fixable by the above, we are only looking at 90+ % compression, & is it really noticable what program is used for the final shrink at that level ???

PS I did look at the dvd rebuilder website & was underwhelmed - the site is badly designed - some pages are empty or missing - & nowhere is there info on how to buy/download the pro version.
If they can’t build a decent web site is it reasonable to expect them to build a decent recoder ?

as for messing with the aspect mode, my TV can handle that - I just press the aspect button!


#10

PS I did look at the dvd rebuilder website & was underwhelmed - the site is badly designed - some pages are empty or missing - & nowhere is there info on how to buy/download the pro version.
If they can’t build a decent web site is it reasonable to expect them to build a decent recoder ?

You may have gone to the wrong site.
Have you gone to this one?
http://www.jdobbs.com/


#11

[QUOTE=cybmole;2087633]is there a significant difference, compared with dvdfab built in compression ?

I find that many movies will fit on SL anyway if main movie option is used to strip extra languages & menus & unnecessary audio streams.

For those that don’t quite fit, then it is often the case that DVDshrink can get to 100% quality by trimming start & end credits, using it in reauthor mode on the DVDfab output. ( DVDfab output seems fully compliant with DVDshrink ).

I’d say 8 out of 10 movies can be put on SL with zero compression using the above methods, & if you must have the extras, they can be put on a separate disc using customise mode to copy everything except the main movie.

for the odd movie that is not fixable by the above, we are only looking at 90+ % compression, & is it really noticable what program is used for the final shrink at that level ???

PS I did look at the dvd rebuilder website & was underwhelmed - the site is badly designed - some pages are empty or missing - & nowhere is there info on how to buy/download the pro version.
If they can’t build a decent web site is it reasonable to expect them to build a decent recoder ?

as for messing with the aspect mode, my TV can handle that - I just press the aspect button![/QUOTE]
I can’t believe you haven’t tried it out! It is one of if not the best DVD backup program (compressing and other things, no ripping) in the scene!

DVD Rebuilder uses encoders to produce a much, much better backup than DVD Shrink and an even better compression than DVDFab Platinum. So to some you may not notice any difference, but others might. If you use a proper encoder, the output will always look better than with a transcoder.

By the way, it is best not to go by %. Read this post for more info.

Anyway, this has gone off topic for a bit. Lets see if the next update provides a compliant rip.

BitSmasher, did the update of DVD Rebuilder fix the issue or not?


#12

OK .but my other points are valid
i.e. there’s no way that you’ll improve on the original encoding & for most movies you can preserve that anyway on SL, so why bother with a lengthy re-encode?


#13

[QUOTE=cybmole;2087755]OK .but my other points are valid
i.e. there’s no way that you’ll improve on the original encoding & for most movies you can preserve that anyway on SL, so why bother with a lengthy re-encode?[/QUOTE]
For the simple fact that compressing using an encoder will always produce better looking backups than a transcoder.

You may want your speed but I would like a quality backup where I won’t have to worry about playing on any sized TV/projector screen.


#14

I thought this issue was put to bed months ago when (to assist mobile encoding) fengtao tried to insert a VCID with a navpack only and DVD Rebuilder choked on it (quite correctly) - there is a mammoth thread on this.

I don’t know what fengtao has done with the decrypter if anything, but I do know that jdobbs has not done anything since to make DVDRB somehow not process a compliant rip (or vice versa). Certainly the OP is a long way behind in DVDRB updates (it is 1.27.3 and soon to be 1.28) and this is strange, since every VIP (registered owner) gets an email when a program update occurs.

If there’s something not quite right about a VCID, a run with FixVTS [B]might [/B]help (especially if the VCID is unreferenced) as Wombler has said.

As for the discussion between transcoding and encoding, this is totally off topic but each to his own, I guess. There’s not a person alive who’ll convince me that a quick and nasty transcode will come close in quality to an encode with a high quality encoder such as HC (free), CCE or Procoder. Of course, if the source material fits already on a DVD5, then the discussion is moot - no encoding or transcoding is necessary. Many DVDs in R1 will fit, but in PAL countries, almost everything needs compression.

Regards


#15

I see valid points in all the above…
cybmole I know where you’re coming from,after all the OP is using Fab Platinum,and therefore can just make a DVD-5 backup and watch…Some just prefer to rip full disc and process with other tools,such as encoders for so-called better quality…I must admit I used to do the same Rip and use other tools to fit to SL disc,except now it’s much easier with the one proggy/tool for me…
Frankly I can hardly tell the difference using Plat or DVDRB Pro, unless using DL media ,and I can’t remember the last time I used DVDRB …But I am spoiled and want my backups now… Lately I prefer viewing HD quality video anyway,as I said I’m spoiled…To each their own!
Cheers, gents/gals


#16

[QUOTE=t0nee1;2087780]Lately I prefer viewing HD quality video anyway,as I said I’m spoiled
[/QUOTE]

same here - esp. when you can let others deal with the ripping compexities & get the results as 720p H264 encoded torrents, which play fine on my PC. Now if they’d only include subtitles as well it would be a perfect world :slight_smile:

ps - the relevence to dvdfab in that last remark is that there are lots of blu-ray rips available on line , so clearly it CAN be done- DVDFAb needs to catch up with the compettion in that area.


#17

[QUOTE=cybmole;2087755]OK .but my other points are valid
i.e. there’s no way that you’ll improve on the original encoding & for most movies you can preserve that anyway on SL, so why bother with a lengthy re-encode?[/QUOTE]

It’s not a case of improving on the original (which is impossible) but it’s a case of degrading that original less.

A full re-encode is way better than a transcode and the difference becomes progressively more pronounced the higher the compression required.

I don’t want to complicate things unnecessarily so essentially transcoders make several assumptions about the film and assume that the existing parameters are adequate.

An encoder redoes the entire job from scratch (generates new motion vectors etc etc) and attempts to optimise the bitrate at every point throughout the entire movie.

Try it on a difficult film and you’ll be amazed at the difference.

[B]Wombler[/B]


#18

:iagree: with Wombler,

I’m not disputing the fact that an encoder e.g HCenc, which I use BTW,will produce a higher quality backup…It’s just minimal to [I]my eyes[/I]
But yeah, maybe we should get back to the OP’s compatibility issue…
:cool:


#19

Thats the spirit , lets get back on topic and try to help the OP. Thanks.