Comparing two scans with different burn speeds

Hi all.

This is my first post: please be gentle :bigsmile: I’ve recently bought some 8x TY from Meritline and 8x MIJ Sonys from the Best Buy deals. My goal was to buy media that would retain the data for a long time (of course, I want less coasters also). I have an Emprex/BTC 10161M burner with A091 firmware.

Here are two scans/stats. First one is the 4x burn and second is the 8x burn on the 8X TY from Meritline. The first one (4x burn) seems to show worse (higher) maximum PI error and total PI error but lower total PI Failure. The second one (8x burn) has lower PI errors but higher PI failures.

The question is: which is better or preferable? Also, if I burn a DVD at 8x, will older DVD rom drives be able to read them?

Look forward to the replies. :slight_smile:

Hi there

I would say there are both pretty decent burns. Some would say that total PIF’s should be below 1000 for archiving, but honestly, in my opinion, I would burn at 8x, the speed improvement is worth it, it is not like you getting a completely terrible burn, it is a great burn.


Also, I am not familiar with your burner; it looks like it is a realistic scan but, in any case, you should scan at 4X.

You are on the right track choosing TY for quality. Possibly give the +R 8X a try. It has [I]much[/I] lower PIE/PIF totals on most burners.

in my opinion, I would burn at 8x, the speed improvement is worth it

Frankly, it depends on the situation. If you are actively waiting for it to finish, then speed is good. However, often I just start a burn and then go have lunch - or go to bed for the night. (In fact, one media store threw in five 2x DVD-RWs as a “free gift”, and occasionally I use them by starting a burn at 1x and going to bed. :slight_smile: )

So, I think his question - which boils down to “which is a better burn, high PIF and low PIE, or high PIE and low PIF ?” is still relevant.

There’s no practical difference between these scans. The difference in numbers is well within the limits of “normal variation”, and you could get similar variation just by scanning the same disc over and over, or scanning multiple discs from the same batch.

Apart from the questionable practice of buying media from Meritline, you’re doing fine, so enjoy your high-quality media.

A091 is a BTC firmware.

Lower PIF is almost always better.

Thanks for the prompt replies. Right now, with the comments that members have made, I will stick with 4x burns (if it consistently gives me lower PIF values). Also, I will try out my Sony 8x +R’s to see if there is a difference and scan at 4x as a member suggested.

Another question: when talking about scans, does it matter if I’m burning the same file? The two scans I’ve posted up are burns of the same iso. Is there a difference if I compared two scan results with two different isos? I don’t want to keep burning the same thing over and over again with varying speeds to check scans. :doh:

Finally, what did CDan mean when he said “questionable practice of buying media from meritline”? I thought Meritline is a reputable dealer.

Thanks again

I beg to differ. These variations are significantly different and not what you would get through “normal” variations. I scan many discs more than once and never see a variation of 73% in PIF total unless the disc has been damaged.

However, neither disc will play any differently today.

I scan many discs more than once and never see a variation of 73% in PIF total unless the disc has been damaged.

At these levels, differences of even 200% are meaningless. Besides which, total counts are not a measurement of “quality”.

In order to do a comparative scan you need to hold all variables constant but one. This is especially true of burns on different drives. Given that there will be some slight variations between discs it is important to keep other things constant as much as possible. Otherwise you will not know what contributed to the change. However, if you use files of the same equivilant size, you should not have a problem.

This is why scans from different burners on different media are so difficult to interpret. Yours, however, should be no problem to compare to each other. Comparing them to other scans posted here will be difficult as very few posters scan with your type of drive. As such, your scans will be good for purposes of comparing [I]your[/I] burns. A comparison of a 4X burn to an 8X burn is meaningful and your scans show a difference. TYG02 does this a lot, increasing one form of error when decreasing the other, when changing burn speed. My best TYG02 was at 4X on an LG 4163 (see below).

Also, Meritline had problems in the distant past but for the last year they have been reliable.

And by the way, welcome to the forum.

OK, if you say so.

Also, Meritline had problems in the distant past but for the last year they have been reliable.
I have purchased media from a variety of retailers, and everyone I’ve dealt with has always shipped relatively promptly, and sent what I ordered.

Where potential problems come with retailers is when you want to return something. Often the lower the initial price of the products, the less customer service - because they have to cut corners somewhere.

So, I usually buy PC hardware from and other hardware from Amazon - because of the good return policies.

But, if I’m going to buy $30 worth of Verbatim media in a sealed Verbatim box, nothing much matters other than price. If there is a CD problem, I can “write off” the $30, when I am saving a few dollars on all my orders at these City Of Industry stores.

Also, there are advantages to buying media at newegg, because they have customer reviews and their customers are pretty good about reporting back results - some are clueless about things like MID, but many are not - it’s always comforting to have someone report two days ago that they just received their spindle and it’s MCC-003 - even though one never knows which pallet the shipping guy will fill your order from. :doh: When newegg has an item on special sale, it’s time to stock up !

BTW, if you value your time at, say, $10 an hour (probably way more for most), you aren’t saving any money by driving to a brick-and-mortar store on the weekend, and pawing through various Sony cake boxes looking for “Made in Japan” and then standing in line to check-out (let alone the cost of gas)… :rolleyes:

Just an update. I burned another iso using the sony 8x MIJ +R media, and wow…

I had higher total PIE (~68k) but much lower PIF (<200). There is some sort of PIE and PIF tradeoff going on with my burner, and the +R stuff seems to have mucher lower PIF.

Should I only worried about the Max (taking out outliers) PIF and PIE and not the totals? as long as PIE <200ish and PIF <32?

I always hate to do this as people are touchy about their hardware, but you should consider another burner. The results you list for MIJ Sony +R, which could well be Taiyo Yuden, are certainly acceptible. However, this is the best media made for top quality burns. You can do much better with almost any quality burner made today, other than the NEC 4570. Given that drives are now less than $40 it is cheap and well worth it in terms of features and burn quality.

My TY T02 gives PIE totals less than 7K and PIF totals under 100.