College Students Depressed?

Here’s what the folly of promoting the “pop psychology” agenda in the U.S. (promoting self-aggrandizement without having worked hard to have accomplishing anything notable) since the late 80s and not maintaining public high schools to one step below college (challenging students enough so the really earn that A or B, with showing them how to basically analyze and think for themselves by at least basic logic) has led to. :eek:

When I see how much we all whine today I think back to my Father’s first two plus decades of life. He was born in 1924 and was five years old when the stock market crashed and the Great Depression started. He also was the second youngest in a family of ten children. After going through the Depression for 11-12 years (and it wasn’t over by a long shot in 1939-1940) what did he get for his trouble? He got Pearl Harbor and WWII shoved right up his you-know-what. Then he graduated high school and volunteered for the Army and flew 25 mission over Germany in a B-17 as a ball turret gunner and it was BEFORE they had fighter escort for the entire flight. He was shot down twice over Germany and made his way back both times to be put right back into another B-17. Then he gets back and goes to college on the GI Bill while supporting a wife and child. I NEVER heard him complain about ANY of it. My point is that his story is not unique for that generation. Now if a college grad sees a little rough spot in finding employment after graduation it is made out to be a national disaster. Sometimes I am ashamed of just how weak and spoiled we have become as a society. Maybe we all need to think back at just how much the previous generations sacrificed for this country, friends and family before we have our next pity party.

Sorry for the rant but I just couldn’t hold that one inside.

As much as I hate to, I have to agree with both of you…:eek:
We’ve become a nation of whiners and refuse to take responsibility for anything…

[QUOTE=UTR;2279131]When I see how much we all whine today I think back to my Father’s first two plus decades of life. He was born in 1924 and was five years old when the stock market crashed and the Great Depression started. He also was the second youngest in a family of ten children. After going through the Depression for 11-12 years (and it wasn’t over by a long shot in 1939-1940) what did he get for his trouble? He got Pearl Harbor and WWII shoved right up his you-know-what. Then he graduated high school and volunteered for the Army and flew 25 mission over Germany in a B-17 as a ball turret gunner and it was BEFORE they had fighter escort for the entire flight. He was shot down twice over Germany and made his way back both times to be put right back into another B-17. Then he gets back and goes to college on the GI Bill while supporting a wife and child. I NEVER heard him complain about ANY of it. My point is that his story is not unique for that generation. Now if a college grad sees a little rough spot in finding employment after graduation it is made out to be a national disaster. Sometimes I am ashamed of just how weak and spoiled we have become as a society. Maybe we all need to think back at just how much the previous generations sacrificed for this country, friends and family before we have our next pity party.

Sorry for the rant but I just couldn’t hold that one inside.[/QUOTE]

It’s not a rant but rather a completely valid counterpoint to the article. When I was teaching jr. high, I was amazed how many kids get reduced or free b-fasts and lunches in addition to free transportation on the bus to and from home–then too many of them were the biggest discipline problems around. I riles me and makes me shake my head when their Colombian counterparts in elem. school have to WALK in some cases 1.5 hours EACH way just to get to school. They don’t get any reduced-price nor free lunches at the schools; they have to rely on both their parents working hard to send a lunch with them. :doh: So somehow US students here have good facilities, food in their stomachs, transportation, extracurricular activites…but it’s “too stressful” to give them even only the needed homework or ask them to pay attention in class, take notes and to study as I advised them (even showed them how to study). :eek: Even “Gran Torino” (part social commentary) with the girl (Ashley) showed her saying “how much longer do we have to stay here…this place is a dead zone for my cell and I’m bored.” :disagree: Well, get up off your lazy hiny and start talking to any one of the 50 people in the house!! :confused:

I grew up around WWI and WWII veterans and it was amazing the stories I was told (wish I remembered more of them). In contrast with today, they took their lumps and hard times and did the best with the hand they were dealt and if they complained, it was because it was something worth complaining about (a real miscarriage of justice or someone being unethical or dishonest).

All of my uncles and my mother were born before or during the Great Depression and knew what hard times were. They were also poor and all of my uncles except one went into the service. The uncle I loved the most because he taught me what real honor meant along with how to treat people fairly, was wounded in the Pacific and carried a bullet next to his heart his entire life after that. He never talked about the war and even when he was hurting with crippling arthritis…he didn’t complain. When he felt better, he told all kinds of jokes that were ROFL funny.

It is indeed said how much has gone downhill in not even 30 years. Even the article itself ironically includes this: “Anne Marie Albano, an associate professor of clinical psychology at Columbia University, said college is a ‘tender age’ developmentally, a period when young adults start taking responsibility for their lives…” I thought the ‘tender age’ was when a person went through puberty and going through high school. True that some of the rest of that paragraph is accurate…but the statement she makes is like “they’re just learning to handle money”? Hmm…I thought people should have learned how to handle money properly through the idea of an allowance and for sure do so more or less responsibly during one’s high school years. What the article proves to me is how we’re regressing: instead of becoming more mature in a responsible way sooner, there’s less responsibility which is put off because parents and schools aren’t teaching responsibility…artifically creating this increase in stress because in too many cases, neither wanted to deal with it, so it wasn’t done. It’s truely sad.

MY daughter I am sure was stressed or Depressed in college from time to time. It was not always easy or fair for her, but she stayed the course and finished with a master in five years and is now a teacher. She became what she always wanted to be and now is teaching kids. This is life and I do not think it is any worse today than it has been in the past. You see articles all the time about how much teenagers are depressed in high school. To me it is nothing new just part of growing up that we all had to go through.

Ohhh pooor babies … working so hard for a few hours a week, and sleeping in until midday every day, upset because the credit card company wants their money back for that $3K 24" apple Mac you bought along with french restaurant meals and enough alcohol to drown an irishman, without mummy ordering you to do your homework … come and give mummy a hug …

And then they graduate and kill themselves after working for a few days. It’s all part of the culling process.

[QUOTE=debro;2279266]Ohhh pooor babies … working so hard for a few hours a week, and sleeping in until midday every day, upset because the credit card company wants their money back for that $3K 24" apple Mac you bought along with french restaurant meals and enough alcohol to drown an irishman, without mummy ordering you to do your homework … come and give mummy a hug …

And then they graduate and kill themselves after working for a few days. It’s all part of the culling process.[/QUOTE]

LOL! Thanks for the laugh.

The school system in the US has been going downhill for decades. I went through high school in a building that was built in 1904 (it stayed operational until 1984) and we never thought a moment about how terrible we had it. I got a good enough education to get accepted into, and graduate from, one of the best engineering schools in the country. I chalk this up to having teachers that put educating the students they taught first and foremost. Covering their a$$es was far down on the list of priorities. In fact, there were four people from my small graduating class of 180 people that got accepted into that college. We didn’t have a swimming pool, planetarium, etc. that is built into the schools today. IMO, the school system in the US has ceased to be interested in the kid’s getting a quality education. It has become a self serving entity of the teacher’s unions first and foremost. It has also become, to a slightly less degree, a political tool for indoctrinating kids to a certain political belief system that will help perpetuate the teacher’s union’s control in the future.

The sad fact is that too many adults are telling these students (many are just children) how they should feel pity for themselves. This article is a prime example of it. If a student reads this type of BS long enough they will start to believe it and live it. To give an idea of just had nuts these school administrators can get, one year (5th grade, I believe) our son NEVER received a grade all year. It was decided that giving grades to students messed with their self esteem! They just got the equivalent of “Good” and “Bad” marks on report cards and I don’t think anyone received a “Bad” mark all year. We couldn’t tell if he learned anything that year because there was nothing to reference for performance! After the massive complaining from parents they dropped it.

When I see all the money spent by local, state and federal government on the K-12 school system it boggles my mind. Here where I live, the school system spends well over $13,000 per student! This is a ridiculous sum of money to spend. If the USA doesn’t stop raising a bunch of undereducated, whining cry babies the Chinese will eat us alive, economically, before the century is half over.

Rant over.

If you really want tons of mind-blowing proof how bad it is, read “Inside American Education” by Thomas Sowell. He’s one of the most brilliant minds around and he nails everything down several different ways.

[QUOTE=debro;2279266]Ohhh pooor babies … working so hard for a few hours a week, and sleeping in until midday every day, upset because the credit card company wants their money back for that $3K 24" apple Mac you bought along with french restaurant meals and enough alcohol to drown an irishman, without mummy ordering you to do your homework … come and give mummy a hug …

And then they graduate and kill themselves after working for a few days. It’s all part of the culling process.[/QUOTE]

Well I agree that a lot of people are like that. Some people aren’t though. I’m quite the opposite in fact. I’m going to college full time right now studying culinary arts, I’m the president of the culinary arts club on campus, I work full time, I also help out with a lot of odd job catering events to get more money, I moved out on my own right after I graduated. Its crazy stressful. There are times when I start work at 5 am til 3pm then go straight to another restaurant for an odd job for another 8-10 hours. If you didn’t know that’s something like 18-20 hours on my feet that day. Now, tell me I don’t work hard or that I’m lazy. Oh, and one more thing, between work, and school, I’m putting in 80+hours a week on my feet. I’m not saying I don’t like it. To be honest, I love it. I wouldn’t change it for the world.

But for most of the peolpe I see at school, I can’t stand them. I have to agree they are really lazy and pathetic. I’m glad my parents raised me with a strong work ethic.

[QUOTE=Quema34;2279886]If you really want tons of mind-blowing proof how bad it is, read “Inside American Education” by Thomas Sowell. He’s one of the most brilliant minds around and he nails everything down several different ways.[/QUOTE]

The latest example of how the teacher’s unions screw over students for their own self interests is what just happened to the voucher program in Washington, DC. It was implemented by Bush and it allowed lower income parents to get a voucher to help pay for tuition in their child attended a private school. It was wildly successful and growing in popularity. Then one of the first things Obama did as a payback to the teacher’s unions was to kill it. I’ll give you one guess as to why. It was because it was starting to really take root and make the public schools look bad because the kids going to private schools were far out performing their public school counterparts. We can’t let that happen now, can we?

[QUOTE=str1ker;2279946]But for most of the peolpe I see at school, I can’t stand them. I have to agree they are really lazy and pathetic. I’m glad my parents raised me with a strong work ethic.[/QUOTE]

Congrats on having a great attitude. You are proof that good parenting does pay dividends.

[QUOTE=UTR;2279960]The latest example of how the teacher’s unions screw over students for their own self interests is what just happened to the voucher program in Washington, DC. It was implemented by Bush and it allowed lower income parents to get a voucher to help pay for tuition in their child attended a private school. It was wildly successful and growing in popularity. Then one of the first things Obama did as a payback to the teacher’s unions was to kill it. I’ll give you one guess as to why. It was because it was starting to really take root and make the public schools look bad because the kids going to private schools were far out performing their public school counterparts. We can’t let that happen now, can we?[/QUOTE]

I knew about the voucher program in D.C. being really successful and Obama killing it as a “payback.” That was underhanded indeed. The system largely promotes underperformance and I’ve only heard Gingrich address part of fixing the problem from what I can remember (require each person to have at least a Bachelors in their subject matter area or even a Masters, drop certification requirements and something about “community schools”) but the question would be if he had the chance, would he have the complete solution and could he then get support to make it all work like that. Even if someone got in there that had the will to try to fix it from the ground up… I don’t see any way it could ever get done on a large scale. It could start to improve if enough of America got behind it and insisted on it, but with American’s large amount of apathy these days… you can probably fill in the rest. :stuck_out_tongue:

Money plays an issue in this too. Some of these Colleges charge over $30,000 a year. I dont care if you started working part time when you were 16, there is no way students could afford that. Some of the student loans out there are crazy. Most students leave college with a ton of debt. That has to weigh on these students.

Money does play an issue, but going to a high-priced college is completely avoidable. The reality is that no one should go to college if one can’t pay for it or can’t incur a small amount of debt one could pay off reasonably fast that also won’t be stressful. The other reality is most places (in the U.S.) have lowered their requirements for getting a job on jobs that formerly listed as Bachelors needed to an Associates + experience or even just a HS diploma + experience. While in some cases it’s not practical to hire a HS graduate only, it does showcase that employers in general don’t want to 1) pay for more education and 2) students wanting to get more education beyond HS should carefully consider their field of choice and see how it matches up with pay and program availability at a junior college and just go there instead. One of the few fields were one should accept high debt for a lot of education is in medicine, either being a nurse or especially a doctor–graduates in those fields will make $$ to pay down much faster on their debt there because of low amounts of graduates in both those areas. They’ll also be able to negotiate for better pay because the demand is so high.

The fact is too many just go to college “as the thing to do” without putting enough forethought into it. Anyone can make what should have been an informed decision and choose wrong, but that’s in the minority; what’s happening on this kind of scale is far beyond what would happen if a lot of serious thought were rightly put into it beforehand. The essential definition of economics is making an informed decision about properly managing scarce resources: if one doesn’t have the $$, can’t get a job to pay for a high-$$ school, doesn’t have scholarships or didn’t get grants to go to the place of one’s choice…then it’s incredibly foolish to go with the “consequences-be-damned” attitude when economics tells the person to consider a far less-expensive and manageable option. :doh:

The way I see it is - Over Certification.
Too many workplaces are now requiring certificates proving higher education, to perform mundane tasks.

People are expecting to get something out of their courses, and courses are being pumped up with rediculous content, which is obvious to blind freddy. However, by wrapping course structures and increasing demands, it somehow legitimises mundane courses with high demands and no real payback.

Worse, is that they are attracting people without the necessary skils or inclination to do real intellectual courses, but are requiring the same skills, which are often beyond the majority of the population.

FFS … even MacDonalds is applying for a university status … for “Shift Management” courses.
Seriously … it’s a 4hr short course, and then you’d have time left over to allow 1hr transport in each direction.

What next? 3years of university @ $10K/yr to flip burgers?
How did the human race survive the 1960’s (and 70’s, 80’s & 90’s) … when every burger flipper was just some kid off the street?

[QUOTE=Quema34;2280872]Money does play an issue, but going to a high-priced college is completely avoidable. The reality is that no one should go to college if one can’t pay for it or can’t incur a small amount of debt one could pay off reasonably fast that also won’t be stressful. The other reality is most places (in the U.S.) have lowered their requirements for getting a job on jobs that formerly listed as Bachelors needed to an Associates + experience or even just a HS diploma + experience. While in some cases it’s not practical to hire a HS graduate only, it does showcase that employers in general don’t want to 1) pay for more education and 2) students wanting to get more education beyond HS should carefully consider their field of choice and see how it matches up with pay and program availability at a junior college and just go there instead. One of the few fields were one should accept high debt for a lot of education is in medicine, either being a nurse or especially a doctor–graduates in those fields will make $$ to pay down much faster on their debt there because of low amounts of graduates in both those areas. They’ll also be able to negotiate for better pay because the demand is so high.

The fact is too many just go to college “as the thing to do” without putting enough forethought into it. Anyone can make what should have been an informed decision and choose wrong, but that’s in the minority; what’s happening on this kind of scale is far beyond what would happen if a lot of serious thought were rightly put into it beforehand. The essential definition of economics is making an informed decision about properly managing scarce resources: if one doesn’t have the $$, can’t get a job to pay for a high-$$ school, doesn’t have scholarships or didn’t get grants to go to the place of one’s choice…then it’s incredibly foolish to go with the “consequences-be-damned” attitude when economics tells the person to consider a far less-expensive and manageable option. :doh:[/QUOTE]

I agree completely. Way to many people are just going to college. It really sucks. There are 20,000 or so students enrolled at the JUNIOR college I go to. Its not even a university and there is an insane amount of people trying to go. Classes get overfilled, and its nearly impossible to get a proper education in some classes. Not only do some class overfill, but sometimes you can’t get into a class because some asshole signed up for it first and they are going to drop out of the class once they get that government $$. I know of people that have had to go to school for another semester because they couldn’t get into a class that was overfull at the beginning of the semester and ended up at about half the max enrollment by mid semester.
Sorry about that rant. It really irritates me though.