CMC debate?

You talk about Ridisc, Datawrite, Datasafe and all that? :confused: Pretty cheapass costumer if they bother 0,2€/disc …and then the risk of losing all, wow! I wouldn’t even bother talking business to such ppl :wink:

  1. It’s more than 0.2€/disc. But even 0.2€, X50, that’s 10 euros. Maybe you are lucky enough to have the privilege to choose not to deal with customers wanting lower prices, good for you, I don’t have this privilege. These 10 euros can be the difference for me between gaining or loosing a customer. And I can tell you that those who do a similar job as mine don’t even bother about the media they use for their customers, they just use the cheapest available. At least, I DO test the media before using it. And when people are OK to pay more, of course I go Verbatim (TY printable is too expensive in Europe, not worth it).

  2. CMC media does NOT degrade. If it burns OK it stays that way. No risk to “loose it all”. :disagree: - besides, due to the nature of my job, it’s most of the time not necessary that these discs last for more than a year, they’re for demonstration purposes anyway.

  3. I’ve burnt up to this day (no coaster) more than 600 Datasafe-branded CMC MAG E01 printables (8X rated) @12X, and all the random scans look like the one I attach… pure luck? They’re not as good as the HP ones, though (PIF levels/numbers).

  4. I wouldn’t touch any Ridisc-branded disc :Z

  5. “Regular” Datawrite seems very problematic, but the “Titanium” range is in general OK.

Do not misundesrtand: I’m NOT recommending these discs at all, :disagree: I’m simply stating that I know what I’m doing :wink:

Yeah sorry, I just choose the solution i find best as do you. I get paid to do 30-40 dvds/month so the difference in price doesn’t matter a lot to me since it’s pretty small volume :wink:

Well maybe the reason you have such little business is because your quotes are too hight because you only use Verbatim? :stuck_out_tongue:

Hehe - Nah, it’s educational stuff for ppl where i work and there’s only app. so many who need the video. Also my charge is the same no matter what brand i use :wink:

I honestly believe they sell different grades of CMC media depending on the brand name’s own quality assurance and standards. For example, Verbatim will only tolerate a certain failure rate from media they contract from CMC, and all the rejected media by Verbatim will be sold by CMC to the second and third tier brand names at a discount. I recently bought some Staples brand DVDs which are CMC manufactured. The PI/PO tests I ran on a few discs were off the charts (PIFs above 500 across the graph). Technically, they shouldn’t even be readable in my standalone Sony DVD player, but they are. So I believe brand names do make a difference as well as the underlying manufacturer. You really do get what you pay for.

Verbatim CMCs aren’t really CMCs since AFAIK, they are made to different specifications etc and they have MCC media codes. I’m guessing that there are some rejected MCC CMC discs that are probably onsold to different cheap brands. However these will still be MCC media codes and there is no changing that.

But what we’re talking about here AFAIK is CMC media code media. I think many people agree that there are likely different quality genuine CMC media code (or many mediacode) media. It’ll depend on the brand what sort of media quality they expect. In fact, it’s mentioned in the FAQ. Thats why in this post it’s recommended to choose CMC of resonable brand names not just any CMC…

Pearl White is the exception to them.

EVERY manufacturer offers different grades. And yes, the brands pretty much get what they ask for.

Media “grades” is largely untrue myth perpetuated in online user forums.

There is some truth to how it works, but nowhere as much as people want to think. For a lot of media that is erratic, like CMC, brand and grades has nothing to do with it. The media is simply poorly made. For example, one month a few people on one site will talk about how great CMC is under the TDK brand, but another site at the same timeframe will verbally crap all over it. And the site that originally had praise for CMC in TDK brand will change opinions a few months down the road.

It’s a lot more simple than people want to acknowledge, more often than not. The world is simply not that full of conspiracies and micromanagement.

CMC is a gamble. Period. It’s that easy.

If you want reliable media, you’d better stick to something like MCC, SONY, TY, MXL and others. Those media have a better record of quality burning. And while there will be naysayers to everything, remember to look at the big picture.

Have some perspective.

I think it’s fair to say CMC is a bit of a gamble. But you seem to be suggesting CMC with e.g. Imation or TDK will be about the same as some generic POS like GMIT (I don’t know if GMIT have ever sold CMC but the idea is there) which seems rather unlikely.

Do you actually work for CMC or otherwise have insider information. If not, what your saying seems simply to be speculation which doesn’t make much sense either IMHO. It’s logical to assume CMC will have a resonable idea on the quality of each batch and it’s resonable to assume those who feel they have a name to protect like TDK and Imation will be less tolerant of bad batches then the cheap/noname brands and more willing to pay more for better batches. They may even have internal quality control which I doubt the cheap/noname brands have. It’s resonable to assume then that in general good name brands are far less likely to have problematic discs then no name brands. This of course doesn’t mean there will never be a problems or that there is less variation, just that the average quality is likely to be far higher with the good name brands. In fact there might be less variation with the no name brands since they may always get all the totally crap stuff which are utter shit. This is also supported somewhat from what I’ve read. Of course, no one denies that CMC media tends to have greater variation then MCC and TY (don’t know enough about the others to say for sure) and the issue of people in forums getting worked up I completely recognise but that’s neither here nor there.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with conspiracy but all to so with simple economics. Most other industries do tend to operate similarly. What you’re suggesting sounds rather silly in comparison IMHO.

I can think of this story which might explain your idea… Imation and GMIT goes to CMC and says they want to buy media and CMC says okay I’ll sell it to you and Imation and GMIT buys it. They get a bad batch and Imation say to CMC hey this batch is rather bad, I’m getting a million returrns and they ask CMC can you only sell us the better quality media? We’ll pay more. And GMIT says hey your media is so crap. We can get better media from this China company so unless you sell it for cheaper we’re going off to China.

And CMC says F*CK YOU Imation we don’t want your extra money and Imation says okay no problem then. We’ll just rely completely on our brand name and hope no one notices there is absolutely no difference between GMIT and Imation. We won’t even spend money on internal quality control. We want to compete with GMIT when it comes to quality!

Meanwhile CMC also says F*CK YOU GMIT and GMIT says well since you feel so strongly about it, we won’t get our media from the China company even though it’s cheaper and is the same or better quality. We are a stupid business anyway and we’re not supposed to make money!

Yeah makes a lot of sense to me.

N.B. I personally think CMC media is a bit of a waste of time, I only use Verbatim/MCC, TY is way to expensive here…

Wow… so what your saying is that CMC is a crap shoot, and media like Verbatim (which is a common CMC OEM) and Maxell (another common CMC OEM) are much better?

But I suppose your right… all that talk about different grades of media is complete rubish. I mean, Taiyo Yuden has different LINES not different GRADES right? It’s COMPLETELY different. There’s NO similarity between a Value Line product and a B Grade product at all!!

And when Optodisc offers to sell me “downgrade” media at ~20% off of their “A Grade” prices… they’re just LYING to me, because they don’t want to make as much money on their product anymore. Money can be heavy, and they don’t want to have to carry it around as much anymore I guess.

Dripping sarcasm aside, I HONESTLY hope you’re trying to make a joke and I’m just stepping in it.

I think Maxell has sold more Ritek and less CMC. TDK has sold lots of CMC.
If those discs have their codes, they will be exposed to their quality control. Period.
(Sub-standard discs with these codes can still show up with other brands.)

Reliable media. MXL - :bigsmile:
Sorry but most of my maxell cd-r’s between 1x-32x are not working any more.

Incase of grading it exists.

Why would ritek launch Mountains and Streams and send out information that this media is C-grade.
Yeah because they don’t want to sell it.
Why sell Arita B-grade at lower prices ?

and then there are all these coloured overprints.
Blue, Yellow,Green overprints. See nierle,cdr-winkel and others.

Grading does exist. SOme compannies send there own people to oversee production. And some compannies do have penalty systems.
But since grading makes things more complicate some SMURFS and people like to claime it doesn’t exist. :bigsmile:

It’s obvious to me that grading does exist inside the manufacturing companies, but we as consumers usually don’t get to know what grade of media exist or what grade we are buying.

To make matters worse, some webshops falsely advertise crappy media as being “Grade A” or for media that is particularly suspect it may be advertised as “Grade AAA+” media or something equally ridiculous. Oddly enough, these shops don’t have any grades lower than Grade A media! :rolleyes:

So for a consumer the grading might as well not exist, because whenever we are told about the grade, chances are we’re being lied to (a.k.a. “marketing”). :bigsmile:

Since there’s no official grading system, anyone can say any media is any grade. It’s that simple!!

A better way to put it would be that there is no UNIVERSAL grading system. Every manufacturer has their own standards. Although in some cases I should say “standards” :bigsmile:

Hi guys :slight_smile:

@[B]Dakhaas[/B]: Maxell CDRs not reliable? :eek: :confused:
Must be the first time that my experience conflicts with your statements…
I’ve been burning lots of Maxell (Hitachi-Maxell own media) CDRS since 1997, and all of them they are just as new.

Here are some scans of audio CDRs burnt between 1997 and 2001, scanned last year (2005):

Hmm maybe I’m unlucky with Maxell media. (Some people claime that I’m unlucky with TY as well. So why not the same for maxell :bigsmile: )
However all my old TY cyanine and verbatim azo disc’s are still in perfect shape.
But Maxells own and the Ritek stuff have performed quite bad for me.
Still the MPO maxells are fine except that the silver is no longer silver but is getting more yellow which looks scarry. Expecting them to fail any moment so I backed them up.

I’ve noticed most media which really is of good quality doesn’t have to put some idiotic note on it claiming what grade it is. So I have a really simple rule : if I see any media with a mention of “grade anything”, I stay far away.

Same thing with brand names. If the brand has the word “grade”, “great”, “A”, “A1”, “best”, “tuff”, “excellent”, “super”, “power” etc, I steer clear.

It’s like an inferiority complex : overcompensation sometimes makes it really obvious that a certain part of you is really not that good as it is made out to be.