CloneDVD DVD-9 audio selection issue to DVD-r

vbimport

#1

OK, this is more a FUTURE UPGRADE for a down-the-road update…
DVD-9 discs…I dont usually want all the extra junk, I wanna make a single DVD-R disc with just the movie and maybe the menu, 1 language (ENGLISH), and make it all fit with good video quality.

Not USUALLY a problem…select only the movie file(s), 1 language and 1 set of subtitles…everything else left off, away we go…

EXCEPT…when we get to the SELECT AUDIO section. On SOME movies, you get several versions of the audio, but the manufacturer of the movie lists them generically so that CloneDVD cant really identify them and you may see 3 DOBLY versions in ENglish(SLight text differences only, but any could be “the one”.

Damn rude of the manufacturers to make creative backups so much more difficult…

But anyway…TWICE now, I have backed up a movie…(1st was my copy of STRICTLY BALLROOM that my kids used as a frisbee and scratched THE LABEL side to hell, so I backed up before it could quit on me). All went well, I added ONLY the english dolby 2 channel soundtrack…to save space and keep it simple (DTS is so demanding)

I got the DIRECTORS COMMENTARY audio only. Adding the English dolby soundtrack(Or perhaps the 6 channel Dolby) obviously woulda solved my problem…but I had no way of knowing that the 2 channel was only the directors commentary until after the copy was done and my nice blank media was a talkative coaster.

NOW, is it/would it be possible in the future, to have an AUDIO preview similar to the VIDEO preview we get in the movie selection menu, so we can HEAR the audio track we just selected. This was sorta easy in XCopy Platinum, because it played the primary audio track in the previews (But with no fast forward or track bar) and that was always auto-selected. Is there any way for CloneDVD to auto-select the “main” language track in dolby(Dunno if thats possible?) or for us to preview selected tracks so we can decide which one is the one we want/dont want(IE: Make sure we arent getting directors commentary unless thats what we are wanting?)

Thats all…no PROBLEMS to report with it other than my old regret…
Went to try saving a damaged iROBOT this weekend, ANOTHER scratched disc I was saving from my son. It would still PLAY OK(AFter a good cleaning)…every tyme. the audio was bad on 1 track and would cause a skip if dolby was selected. The DTS version sounded/played fine. However the copies wouldnt play (Locked up often, error for unreadable data) regardless of what audio track I told it to use/play. This was of course due to the bad source disc he had left sliding around the table out of its case 1 too many tymes…but the original would PLAY OK on the player, and on the PC…just couldnt make a working copy from it after 4 attempts I gave up…
Id love it if there were some way to make CloneDVD more tolerant/capable with scratched source media. But since its results with GOOD source discs are clearer than its competitors in most areas (Im especially happy with very compressed movies, its pretty clean even at 60%) I suppose thats asking a bit much, more ignoring of defects would mean lower result quality…which nobody wants.


#2

Yes, I would love that feature, but there are some licensing issues. (Playing Dolby or DTS tracks requires license fees).
Current solution: Start a DVD player sofware and listen to what’s on the disc. Quite simple.


#3

True…but there again we run into the same issue…obviously DTS is pretty easy to find on a player audio menu or on the cloneDVD selector, and DTS is ALWAYS the movie audio, so you will know if you play the DTS and dont hear DIRECTORS VOICES, you have a soundtrack that will do the job for ya…but some players and software doesnt SUPPORT DTS, so that isnt always a good choice, plus DTS is much larger than DOlby in filespace, so crunching to fit on a single disc is better served by a smaller choice…though if you know your players all support DTS I suppose it still works for some.

HOWEVER…DOLBY gets slightly more problematic. 90% of the tyme, there are 1 or 2 dolby choices on a movie when scanned with CLoneDVD (or any other dvd scanning/copying software). USUALLY I see a 6 channel and a 2 channel on most “high quality” films with good sountracks. MOSTLY(Nothing is ever dependable with movie companies!) the 6 channel will ALMOST always be the “movie” audio, and the 2 channel dolby will be the lower quality director commentary over compressed movie audio…Thats USUALLY easy to figure out…simply always go for the 6 channel audio when available and USUALLY you will be OK and get the correct soundtrack…

The trouble comes in with movies that ARENT terribly proud of their audio transfer. If they dont HAVE a DTS or a 6 channel Dolby soundtrack, merely standard 2 channel dolby is ALL you get, then the CloneDVD selector menu(Or anyone elses) simply lists 2 or even 3 “DOLBY-2ch” audio choices to check off for selection. NOW…they look IDENTICAL…(Their text description looks like the same line repeated 2 or 3 tymes). So which is the movie sountrack, which is the Directors commentary soundtrack, and which is the cast reunion gathering soundtrack? There literally is NO WAY TO TELL …and NO, the order they display in doesnt seem to always tell. Playing back the mvoie wont tell you which of the ones cloneDVD shows is the one that is movie or commentary (It just says DOLBY-2ch 3 times over?).

MOST of the movies, the audio choice at the top of thge available selections is the movie soundtrack. USUALLY.
However, the aforementioned STRICTLY BALLROOM, it turned out the 2nd choice was the movie track, the 1st one was the directors audio?
Why did that movie(And a couple of others?) switch the order? to piss people like me off? to be different and stylish?

We may NEVER know…alas…
All we can do is try and figure out how to deal with it. :slight_smile:
Like I say, if there were a way to play the audio…perhaps you could circumvent licensing (I wrote a whole article on DTS licensing and DVD players finally getting DTS back at INMATRIX in the old days, so I remember how insane that stuff could get) by not USING the features? True, if you decode dolby or DTS, and play it back thru stereo speakers you must license it…not an argument. But how about if you play it back in MONO? Just decode it for the purposes of IDENTIFYING tracks? I would THINK (And I could be wrong here?)…that you arent guilty of using their licensed product…if you never actually use its feature and function(That being discreet tracked audio on multiple channels). Since for DVD backup purposes…you just wanna hear WHATS ON an audio track so you can decide if thats the track you wish to select, mono playback is very adequate for that task…and if you are playing ANY music in mono, its hard to assert that you stole DOlby or DTS property when their property licensing is based on multiple track audio playback? Though I suppose they could argue the decode process itself is at issue…however if they were to assert that, then they could already have done so for every copy software ever created sincet hey all allow the MOVING of said encoded files…which isnt any different than playing them without playing them on multi-channels…access and use laws, you must actually use an item to be guilty of illegal use. the possibility of use does not constitute a crime.

ahhh…I do miss lawschool…

Anyways…something to think about…as always Olli…a pleasure.

Kelly
TLK914 - Former DVD software reviewer still looking for a new gig! :slight_smile:


#4

As I said - start PowerDVD (or whatever you like) and look (or hear). The order in the player’s menu is (should be?) the same as the order CloneDVD displays the tracks in the left pane.


#5

Ahhh…I see the problem…
So they display in a predictable order always.

HOWEVER…some movies display them ODDLY in the menu pages they designed for playback (Circular or even side by side? not really a 1-2-3 discernable order?).

I guess that means on those we gotta guess? I know its not CLoneDVDs issue, its the menu system on the DVDs not being plain enough to understand sometymes. (Foprtunately it seems to be pretty rare they do that).
Ahwell…thanks for the response…
Something to keep more aware of.


#6

@ TLK914,

Computer software player similar to PowerDVD will display the audio tracks in exactly the same sequence as displayed in the left pane of CloneDVD.

As stated in Olli’s posting the audio track sequence displayed in PowerDVD is EXACTLY the same as displayed in the left pane of CloneDVD.

If I find a DVD has many audio tracks and I am uncertain as to the audio I want to include in my backup copy I play the DVD in PowerDVD and sample (listen to) the audio tracks. The sequences of the audio tracks displayed in PowerDVD are exactly in the same sequence as displayed in the left pane of CloneDVD.

In short the first audio track displayed in PowerDVD is also the first audio track displayed in CloneDVD left pane/the second audio track displayed in PowerDVD is also the second audio track displayed in CloneDVD left pane/the third audio track displayed in PowerDVD is also the third audio track displayed in CloneDVD left pane and so forth.

If you use a computer software player similar to PowerDVD to sample the audio tracks there is no guesswork as to what the audio tracks are.

Best Regards,
bjkg


#7

Besides PowerDVD, what specific othe DVD player that will allow us to identify these audio tracks? I have WindDVD and Nero, will these also do the tricks? If so, how can we specifically test the different audo tracks?

Thanks,

Techson


#8

i don’t think media player allows this, but in nero showtime if you right click inside the video while it’s playing you’ll see a “change language” option.

this is what changes the audio tracks. You can change these mid-movie so you can get an idea what is what on the dvd.

the first track in that list corresponds to the first track shown in clonedvd and so on…


#9

@ Techson,

You state that you have WindDVD software program.

Perchance before making your number #7 posting in this thread did you actually check see if WindDVD will sample the audio tracks as I stated in posting number #6 in this thread? I assure that WindDVD will sample audio tracks exactly as PowerDVD will.

Best Regards,
bjkg


#10

bjkg,

Thank you. Thank you for your patience with my limited skills. I’ve opened both software but have no idea where to begin.

best,
Techson


#11

@ Techson,

Perchance have you read this thread in its entirety? If you read this posting in its entirety I believe there is sufficient information provided that will enable you to distinguish/identify what the various audio streams are on an original Commercial DVD Movie Title. In short you need to sample (listen) to the audio streams using computer software DVD viewing program similar to either WinDVD or PowerDVD. When using either WinDVD or PowerDVD note the sequence of the audio streams. The sequences of the audio tracks displayed in either WinDVD or PowerDVD are exactly in the same sequence as displayed in the left pane of CloneDVD.

This is the CloneDVD Forum and as such it is inappropriate to open a lengthily discussion in the use of the WinDVD DVD Player software program. In short place your original Commercial DVD Movie Title in your computer DVD device. Start the WinDVD program and to sample the various audio streams available in the Main Console Display right click on the either the Speaker icon or Music Note icon depending on the version of WinDVD that you have and the audio streams are numericaly displayed.

To obtain information on the use of the AnyDVD-CloneDVD software program below is a link to the AnyDVD-CloneDVD user tutorial, which provides detailed information on the use of these programs

http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?threadid=72022

Best Regards,


#12

Ah haah…, this is what I was looking for when I initially read the post in its entirety. Thank you. I just din’t know exactly where to begin the process, but now I do.

Blessings,
Techson


#13

bjkg,

I know this is not WinDVD forum, but please continue your help as I am trying to nail this thing down. I have version 4 of WinDVD. It does show the speaker, not the Music Note. But when I press on the speaker, it either turns of audio or turns it on.

Again, I appreciate your patient. I looked and clicked on any available button but couldn’t find a suitable option.

Best,
Techson


#14

Hi - I’m a newbie, but I do have WinDVD and I also can’t find a sound button to right click. However, I see when I insert a DVD I see an On Screen Display that says ‘Audio - English’ followed shortly after by ‘Audio - 01’ I can’t confirm it but I suspect the 01 is the one to choose in CloneDVD. The reason I can’t confirm it is that I’ve tried a few of my bought DVD’s and they all come up with 01 for audio, and that matched the audio file in Clone DVD. May be just coincidence …


#15

[QUOTE=Olli](Playing Dolby or DTS tracks requires license fees).

[QUOTE]

What if you downmixed the audio to 2-channel, would that get around the licensing issues? I mean you probably really don’t care if you’re hearing Dolby, DTS, or stereo in a preview mode, you just want to know if you have the right track, i.e. commentary.

Somewhat related, CloneDVD doesn’t seem to discern the audio tracks that well. For example, I’ve seen two identical looking audio tracks like:

English AC3/6
English AC3/6

Whereas Recode will show, on the same title:

English AC3/6
English AC3/6 - Directors Commentary

Could that be added?


#16

first off, congrats to the rookie for finding a relevant thread to post their question in (yay “TheEngineer”…we like competent newbies :))

I agree that if at all possible it would be nice for clonedvd2 to include better categorization of audio tracks.

in the mean time though, have you researched how to identify the tracks? the clonedvd forum has a few threads that explain in detail how to figure out what is what. i believe if you search for “director’s commentary” you’ll turn up a number of threads that describe how to identify and choose the correct track.

if you already know how and are just pointing this out as a suggestion, I’d just like to add that i fully agree with you!


#17

Thanks! And I almost changed the title of my reply! :wink:

Yes, I have no problems backing up anything. I just wanted to make the suggestion as a “feature request” to save me a step.


#18

No. If you need to decode, you have to pay. CloneDVD could (should?) use a codec that is already installed on the computer. So if WinDVD, PowerDVD, … is installed, CloneDVD could play the audio tracks using these codecs.

elby CloneDVD already shows the categories on most of my discs. On some discs it doesn’t (likely that the information is missing), but then Recode wouldn’t either. Have you tried the same disc in Recode & CloneDVD?


#19

I thought I did but maybe not. I’ll have to try a few when I get a chance to see for sure.


#20

[QUOTE=TheEngineer][QUOTE=Olli](Playing Dolby or DTS tracks requires license fees).

What if you downmixed the audio to 2-channel, would that get around the licensing issues? I mean you probably really don’t care if you’re hearing Dolby, DTS, or stereo in a preview mode, you just want to know if you have the right track, i.e. commentary.

Somewhat related, CloneDVD doesn’t seem to discern the audio tracks that well. For example, I’ve seen two identical looking audio tracks like:

English AC3/6
English AC3/6

Whereas Recode will show, on the same title:

English AC3/6
English AC3/6 - Directors Commentary

Could that be added?

ya the new version of CloneDvD shows the English AC3/6 - Directors Commentary now. and to make sure i can uncheck mark that one and won’t cause an issue will it?