CloneDVD compression quality vs. Shrink/Recode?

[HLMencken]

I'm getting ready to run some tests and give CloneDVD a try (really liked Olli's kind posts and his attitude). I've read the sticky thread this one , on which is the best compressing program to use, and found it quite interesting. W/the advent of CloneDVD2, I thought that, while I was running my own tests, it might also be useful to solicit others on what they have found.

I've used Shrink extensively (the latest/final version, of course), and its AEC seems to do a pretty good job. But I also know that Shrink's author has ceased work, and as I understand it, now codes Nero's Recode. (Which is why I sort of lumped them together in the title of this post.)

I've used Recode a bit, and even tho it's very similar to Shrink, for some reason I've found Shrink a bit easier to use.

Now I'm coming up on CloneDVD2, which I'm reading has a newer compression technology. So while I'm making my own tests and coming to my own conclusions, what are you all finding? Does the new CloneDVD2 do a better job overall than Shrink/Recode? By "better", I mean better visual quality on playback (which I guess would be bitrate, from reading that other thread), when compressing a dual layer disk down to SL.

I know this is a can of worms. But I value everyone's opinion here, and your responses may tell me things I've not yet considered. That would be especially valuable to think about while I'm making my tests.

And please, Olli, don't be offended that I'm asking this question. I'm just naturally inquisitive.

[ElliotW]

I use all three of the programs you mentioned. I think Shrink my win by a hair at the MAX settings, but it really isn't worth the looooong time for a large compression ratio. CloneDVD2 is very good and very fast. If there isn't going to be much shrinkage - then it's a "pick-um". I prefer the "re-author" mode and user interface of DVD Shrink for short DVD-5 movies.

PS: If would also be nice if CloneDVD2 didn't use so much screen space.

[madmax]

I have tried them all clonedvd, dvdshrink, dvd2one and dvdxcopy etc and would say they all have there good\bad points..
But pushed i would go for clonedvd\anydvd combination
For DVD5 backups there is nothing better imo than dvd decryptor (sadly now no longer updated) i liked the simple read\write iso especally for dvd based ps2 games
Maybe in future clonedvd might do this over to you olli
btw forget dvdxcopy and dvdshrink now as well as dvd decryptor as none of them will be updated seems the choice is getting smaller and smaller..

[HLMencken]

I have tried them all clonedvd, dvdshrink, dvd2one and dvdxcopy etc and would say they all have there good\bad points..
But pushed i would go for clonedvd\anydvd combination
For DVD5 backups there is nothing better imo than dvd decryptor (sadly now no longer updated) i liked the simple read\write iso especally for dvd based ps2 games
Maybe in future clonedvd might do this over to you olli
btw forget dvdxcopy and dvdshrink now as well as dvd decryptor as none of them will be updated seems the choice is getting smaller and smaller..

Nero Recode does pretty much what Shrink does, tho it doesn't rip--but Shrink never ripped that well anyway, IMHO. Leastways, I never used it to rip.

To all: is CloneDVD significantly faster at compressing than Shrink? If it is, that would definitely be selling point for me. But of course, final viewing quality is still my primary concern.

[alex_thyl]

To answer your question: yes, CloneDVD2 is significantly faster than any other software, including DVDShrink.
What concerns quality of compression: I never bother comparing, as to my view - taking into account an average size movie - one can hardly see the difference in quality. We dwellt on this issue a lot of times and especially from the aspect of quality that evidently depends mainly on the size of the original movie and the compression capabilities of the software used.
To answer your other question: I use only AnyDVD and CloneDVD2, because of practical reasons, i.e. very fast, reliable, effective support and a quality that meets my needs.

[jacen9]

never used any other program, clonedvd as always done the job and the quality of the compression is spot on ( had a 5 hour dvd, ripped it, then compressed it to 4.7gb burn it onto a single layer +r with clonedvd,no flaws in playback on comp or standalone player picture just as good as the original) this program kicks ass nice one ollie & slysoft

[Muertez]

Comparing shrink and clone is difficult for me because at the compression settings I use them (max. 15%) they both do a great job. I don’t see any difference between them.

Testing at a higher compression rate is possible off course but what is the point if I only use them @ 15% max? (after that CCE Encoding is used for optimal results )

I like shrink because of the more detailed information it gives me (for example I like to see how large the main movie is in MB’s, how large the menu’s are etc. and not only the compression percentage)
And with shrink I find it easy to combine several scenes onto 1 disk.

The thing I like about clonedvd especially is the one klick ‘keep menu’s’ button, the way it processes the menu options you don’t copy, and the speed.

As I said before I like them both really.
Why search for the ultimate if they both have strong points?

[bjkg]

Hello Folks,

I believe it is almost a moot point comparing AnyDVD-CloneDVD against the other Compressing Programs previously mentioned in this thread because the others are not updated and improved with the regularity as AnyDVD-CloneDVD are. I believe it is a fruitless endeavor to search for the ultimate Compression Program because it doesn’t exist. I am more than satisfied with AnyDVD-CloneDVD because of its outstanding customer support, simplicity, speed, and proven quality results.

Best Regards,
bjkg

[madmax]

Hello Folks,

I believe it is almost a moot point comparing AnyDVD-CloneDVD against the other Compressing Programs previously mentioned in this thread because the others are not updated and improved with the regularity as AnyDVD-CloneDVD are. I believe it is a fruitless endeavor to search for the ultimate Compression Program because it doesn’t exist. I am more than satisfied with AnyDVD-CloneDVD because of its outstanding customer support, simplicity, speed, and proven quality results.

Best Regards,
bjkg

For me this says it all nice post bjkg

[spiderman_jab]

i agree, not many programs are updated as frequently and have such great customer support.

[furballi]

I like Recode/Shrink because I can edit the START and END of the movie. Often, this trick will buy me another 3 to 5% less video compression. If I can do this with CloneDVD, then it would be at the top of my list.

[healy]

Gotta agree with Furballi. I use Recode when I can't fit movie only on a DVD5 and need to trim start and end frames to get that extra X% less compression.

Hopefully, Olli will find time in his hectic schedule to work on some of the feature requests, one of which might be the trimming frame feature. <hopeful glance his way> [GRIN]

[Rich86]

I've experimented with both of these and think they both do a great job of transcoding. CloneDVD2 is much faster, of course. Of course, DVDShrink is free.
While I agree further development and suppport by Ollie and his firm gives CloneDVD2 an edge for longevity, I don't think that automatically makes it a better program or choice. CloneDVD2 is surely the easier of the 2 to use.
But, there are important features in DVDShrink when using it in reauthor mode that don't exist in CloneDVD2 - and that is CloneDVD2's major failing in my opinion.
Some key capabilities straight out of DVDShrink that would be excellent additions to CloneDVD2 include:
1. the ability to select default subtitles and audio streams
2. the ability to set starting and ending frames
3. the ability to set the playing sequence of the titles, now that they can play straight through without resorting to the player's title selection routine
4. the ability to set compression levels of each title (thus permitting the inclusion of extra titles without reducing the quality of the main title when the main title fits in a single layer).

[HLMencken]

I believe it is almost a moot point comparing AnyDVD-CloneDVD against the other Compressing Programs previously mentioned in this thread because the others are not updated and improved with the regularity as AnyDVD-CloneDVD are.

While it's been awhile since I used Nero Recode (always tend to use Shrink), isn't it being updated on occasion, along w/the rest of the Ultra Suite? (I have the Nero Suite, current versions.) Or is what you are saying is, yes Recode gets updated, but AnyDVD/CloneDVD are updated much more frequently? (Since I've just started looking at AnyDVD/CloneDVD, I'm not aware of how frequently new versions are released, so you'll have to forgive me on this one. I update Nero as soon as new versions come out, so I'm much more aware of how often Nero gets updated.)

[HLMencken]

When I released this thread on the forum, I knew that I would get a variety of answers, which is what I was looking for. I had some preconceived notions, but didn't want to mention them up front. Mostly, what you all have said confirmed them:

1) CloneDVD is significantly faster than Shrink at compressing.

2) Shrink can do some editing in Reauthor mode that CloneDVD cannot.

One think I'm still wondering, that I didn't see in your replies (and maybe I missed it; I'm reading this pretty late...sorry), is how CloneDVD does at higher rates of compression? Maybe now that +R DL disks are starting to drop in price a tiny bit, this won't be such an issue for me much longer, but for now it is. I have, on occasion, used Shrink to compress movies to 60% of original. I have some episodic TV shows where they put eight 30-minute eps on the disk, so I had to use a lot of compression. The results are okay, certainly watchable, but I was wondering, do those of you who do a fair amount of compressing--like I said, around 60%--find that CloneDVD produces a highly-compressed disk w/less artifacting and flaws than Shrink?

It also sounds like "different tools for similar jobs". As an analogy, I'm an avid do-it-yourselfer around the house. I have a lot of tools, basically because I enjoy having choices and each tool has its strengths. For example, I have 3 circular saws. One is a big honkin' worm-drive saw that could chew thru a railroad tie, and yet could still cut trim if I wanted to. At the other end is a small trim saw, which definitely could not cut a railroad tie, but does a swell job on trim.

I guess it's the same here--Shrink does certain things very well, esp those things which CloneDVD can't do (yet). But CloneDVD does what it does quite well, and faster. It looks to me like a simple case of having more tools. Goody! :bigsmile:

[SamuriHL]

I think you'll find transcoding in general has its limitations. A lot of us use trancoders up to a certain point and then switch to a reencode method for the highest quality. The right tool for the job, as it were. That being said, you wanted to discuss Shrink vs CloneDVD at higher compression rates. By far I'd say that Shrink with deep analysis provides a higher quality copy. That's not to say that CloneDVD is bad by any means. It's generally what I use up to around 60% or so. If you're concerned about quality I'd investigate a reencode method(DVD2DVD with D2SRoba, for example, or DVDRB are fine choices). Understand that in ALL cases to get higher quality you sacrifice time. Shrink with deep analysis will take probably twice as long if not more than CloneDVD without it. The results are generally worth it, however. This is just one person's opinion, but, I've been backing DVD's up since long before either Shrink or CloneDVD even existed.

[Olli]

If you're concerned about quality I'd investigate a reencode method(DVD2DVD with D2SRoba, for example, or DVDRB are fine choices).

I would say if you are concerened about quality, you should investigate CloneDVD's "split" capabilities. They are hard to understand, difficult to use but offer great results!
(Especially for episodic discs)

[bjkg]

@ HLMencken,

It is very easy to acquire information on exactly how often AnyDVD and CloneDVD are/have been updated. Just visit the SlySoft Web Site (http://www.slysoft.com) and look at the revision history of AnyDVD – CloneDVD.

AnyDVD revision history -
http://www.slysoft.com/download/changes_anydvd.txt

CloneDVD revision history -
http://www.slysoft.com/download/changes_clonedvd.txt

I once again suggest as I have mentioned to you in different thread in the CloneDVD Forum if you are interested in obtaining information on the workings of the AnyDVD-CloneDVD software combination to visit the SlySoft Web Site and download the latest versions of this software and give them a try. As I have also mentioned to you in the same thread CloneDVD Forum that SlySoft has a “Try Before You Buy” policy and provides a 21-evaluation period before you have to purchase.

Your response was –

“”Yes, I agree, I should install the programs to see how they work, and then my posts here should take on more of an intelligent air. Because I have so much VOB-related stuff currently on my system (the list is long), I try not to add something until I need it.. But I will give the proggys a look-see and come back when I have topped the learning curve a bit more””

Perchance have you ever actually tried the AnyDVD-CloneDVD software combination? If not I once again have to state that is fruitless and unproductive answering questions about AnyDVD-CloneDVD when someone hasn’t even taken the time and attempted to use these programs.

Best Regards,
bjkg

[Altone]

Well said bjkg!!
I agree with you entirely.

[SamuriHL]

I would say if you are concerened about quality, you should investigate CloneDVD's "split" capabilities. They are hard to understand, difficult to use but offer great results!
(Especially for episodic discs)

Well, ok, I'll certainly grant you that! Splitting the disc is valid. I like to try to keep everything on one disc personally, and I can accomplish that with reencoding. Don't get me wrong here....CloneDVD is an EXCELLENT product and I recommend it to everyone. I just personally feel that in order to get it to fit on one disc, there is a limit to the transcoders. This should NOT be seen as a deficiency in CloneDVD!!! It's simply a personal preference on my part. Given the cost of discs these days, there's really no reason to not split the disc if you want FULL quality. Although, they're saying prices on dvd's are going up soon...