CloneCD Public Beta Problems

vbimport

#1

Ever since the upgrade, CCD 4.0 is quite tempermental in wanting to load if at all and it only loads when and if it feels like it.

It only loads to the first screen and hangs when it start looking for the devices. Beta 9 never did that !?

I uninstalled CCD 4.0 completley as the upgrade from B9 to B!$ did not uninstall the perivious version as it normally does, which was pretty strange !

I have even cleaned the REG. and reinstalled the B14 and the problem got worse to the point that now the Clone Tray icon stays grayed out at times and comes on at another time. This is followed by complete clone lock out ! The only temporary way to fix is a complete system restart.

Beta 9 never had any problem like that, I am going back to B9 until this bug is fixed.

OS Win XP Pro
Liteon 32 and 40 writers
Toshiba 1402 and Liteon LTD-163 readers

VIA chipset with all the appropriate drivers installed.

Never had any problem with any version of Clone even with CCD 4.0 B9 until B14 so I know there is no problem with my rig !


#2

Paradox have you tried to disable the native winxp cd writing support…

Speed up Nero in XP
Go to “administrative tools” in the control panel, and in the “services” list, disable the IMAPI CD-Burning COM service.
(Note: manual setting is not enough it must be disabled) It is the built-in CD-burning capability for windowsXP (incidentally, written by Roxio).
Once it is disabled, Nero will start up much quicker.

this has helped others …I realize this was posted at another forum…I do not take credit for the idea…it does allow for faster loading and may fix your problem…then again maybe not


#3

nealh - read your Private Mail


#4

Hi Paradox,

> Ever since the upgrade, CCD 4.0 is quite tempermental in wanting to load if at all and it only loads when and if it feels like it.

It only loads to the first screen and hangs when it start looking for the devices. Beta 9 never did that !? <

This is very scary! I haven’t changed anything “vital” between BETA 9 and 14, so I have no explanation!

> I uninstalled CCD 4.0 completley as the upgrade from B9 to B!$ did not uninstall the perivious version as it normally does, which was pretty strange ! <

This is intentional. The new installer system allows this.

> I have even cleaned the REG. <

Bad idea. Never clear CloneCD registry entries by hand, unless you REALLY KNOW what you’re doing. The setup system will be confused, drivers will not be uninstalled, etc.

> and reinstalled the B14 and the problem got worse to the point that now the Clone Tray icon stays grayed out at times and comes on at another time. This is followed by complete clone lock out ! The only temporary way to fix is a complete system restart. <

This looks like a driver problem. Have you updated your IDE/SCSI drivers recently?

> VIA chipset with all the appropriate drivers installed. <
Which one?

> Never had any problem with any version of Clone even with CCD 4.0 B9 until B14 so I know there is no problem with my rig ! <

Not necessarily. It might be that there is a problem which just starts to show with B14…


#5

Thank you for your reply nealh,

I appreciate the advice, but all the things you have said I have already done. Besides I have never had any problems with any version of Clone before.

Thanks anyway.


#6

Originally posted by PaRaDoX
[B]Thank you for your reply nealh,

I appreciate the advice, but all the things you have said I have already done. Besides I have never had any problems with any version of Clone before.

Thanks anyway. [/B]

I’m clueless. Just tried the VIA 4-in-1 4.38 and can’t see any problem…


#7

Thank you very much for the reply Olli,

Well here is all the detail that might come in handy.

OS : Win XP Pro
reader 1 Toshiba sd-1402 set as a primary slave IDE 1
reader 2 Liteon dvd ltd-163 set as a secondary slave IDE 2

Writer 1 Liteon 40X set as a primary Master IDE 1
Writer 2 Liteon 32X set as a Secondary Master IDE2

The HDD are connected to the raid controllers but not raided, they run independently.

Main Board :

MSI K7T266Pro-RU2

Via Chipsets:

Northbridge: VT8366
Southbridge: VT8233

Memory:

Kingmax PC2700 DDR 512MB

CPU :

Atlon 1900 XP ( Not OC)

ASPI:

ASPI layer is 4.70 uptodate

Via Drivers:

4in1 4.38 including the IDE drivers
VIA IDE Performance drivers 3.14
VIA Latency Patch
Transfer mode according to the VIA IDE Tool : UDMA 33

WinXP Alterations:
Transfer Mode according to Win XP:

UDMA 33

The native XP burning capabilities have been turned off
The IMAPI services has been turned off as well.

Cables used :

Fully rounded and insolated/ grounded IDE 80pin cables

Other burning Programs:

CDRWIN 4.0A
Nero 5.5.8.0

Current Clone Version:

Clone Version 4.0.0.0 Beta 14

Now here is the observation that I had.

As I have mentioned before, when I have installed the Beta 9 over the CCD 3.3.4.1, the CCD 3.3.4.1 was uninstalled and then I restated the machine and everything went just fine and not a hitch.

Soon after when the Beta 14 came on I tried to install it over the top of the Beta 9 and the install only continued halfway and hanged.

After the reboot I was able to try to install file for the CCD Beta 14 again over the top od Beta 9 and it finally installed. It was a bit surprising to see that Beta 9 did not uninstall.

I then tried to execute the program and clone loaded but only to the point that said scanning the system for the scsi/ide drives and hanged.

I then had forced quite out of it and rebooted again and it was still doing the same thing. I then procceded to uninstall the Beta 9 as I though I migh have to do that. The problem got worse.

Out of despression and running out of options I tried to attack the registry and then tried the B14 install again.

Now although the CCD works, I don’t think that it would be a 100%. As at times it has a mind of its own, specially with the Clone CD Tray acting a bit peculiarly !

Well I am not quite confused as to what to do.

Should I uninstall the Beta 14, reinstall Beta 9 and the install the Beta 14 on top of it. Is this the way it should have been.

Reason I mention that is because you have mentioned that the fact the Beta 9 DID NOT UNISTALL when Beta 14 was being installed on top of it was intentional.

I am open to suggestion Olli !

Thanks again for taking the time to reply, and let me know if you need any other specific informations, system wise or driver wise.

Cheers.


#8

Hi Paradox,

> 4in1 4.38 including the IDE drivers
VIA IDE Performance drivers 3.14
VIA Latency Patch
Transfer mode according to the VIA IDE Tool : UDMA 33
<

As you have the VIA IDE Tool working, I assume you are currently using the VIA IDE Performance drivers and not the IDE drivers that came with 4in1 4.38. I’ll try the Performance drivers and post the result.


#9

Thanks Olli, I appreciate the help.

I only used the IDE Performance drivers according to your suggestion quite a while back ago when you were optimising CCD 3.3.X you mentioned that this is the only way that we can truely find out if we are in UDMA mode specially in Win XP.

Do you have any suggestion, with regard to the CCD 4.0.0.0 Beta 14 installation, now that I am in this situation.

Should I just leave the it for now ? Or do you suggest a reinstall? Quite frankly I don’t know if I have crippled something when I have attacked the REG. normally I am quite carefull and just don’t go hunting , I am getting worried.:confused:

I wait with anticipation !


#10

Originally posted by PaRaDoX
[B]Thanks Olli, I appreciate the help.

I only used the IDE Performance drivers according to your suggestion quite a while back ago when you were optimising CCD 3.3.X you mentioned that this is the only way that we can truely find out if we are in UDMA mode specially in Win XP.

Do you have any suggestion, with regard to the CCD 4.0.0.0 Beta 14 installation, now that I am in this situation.

Should I just leave the it for now ? Or do you suggest a reinstall? Quite frankly I don’t know if I have crippled something when I have attacked the REG. normally I am quite carefull and just don’t go hunting , I am getting worried.:confused:

I wait with anticipation ! [/B]

Hi again,

I just tried the IDE Performance driver and I don’t see any imminent problem as you have described (I haven’t run real regression tests, but it looks fine as far as I can tell)

I suggest that you:

1.) Uninstall CCD.
2.) Reboot.
3.) Install CCD4 BETA14.
4.) Reboot.

If this doesn’t help (but I am pretty confident that it will), I suggest you give the VIA 4-in1 a try, or the originial MS drivers.
Although this sounds unlogical, it would be at least good to know if this resolves the issue, so I know where to start looking…


#11

Paradox…I figured you had tried my suggestion but thought it was worth the suggestion…

sorry I could not be of more help


#12

Thank you Olli for taking the time to go through this with me.

I really appreciate this. I will try your suggestion one by one as you have outlined just as soon as I finish this reply and will post the result.


#13

Hi there nealh,

>Paradox…I figured you had tried my suggestion but thought it was worth the suggestion…

sorry I could not be of more help<

Quite the contrary nealh, you have helped me plenty of times in the past in the CCD clinic before.

Your up to the minute informations and ideas were quite invaluable to me and I have learned a lot from them, for that I am greatful.

There is no need to be sorry, at all, after all we are all here to help each other the best way we know how !


#14

Hi there Olli,

It took me a while to do some of the testings, so sorry for not being able to report earlier.

Well to start things off first, I uninstalled CCD B14 as suggested and rebooted and then installed CCD B14 and then rebooted again.

Now upon next reboot, after CCD B14 Installation when I tried to open Clone, almost every single time with out fail CCD B14 hanged the IDE Bus, to the point that I could not even open any other burning program at all. Clone would simply start to load and then that was it as it was trying to scan SCSI/IDE it would hang the system sometimes to the point that even mouse would freeze as well.

I have noticed that during which the Clone tray icon was remaining gray as well.

After force quiting from CCD B14 at this time I tried to uninstall CCD B14 only to see that the uninstall only started up to 1/5 of the way and hanged.

I rebooted the machine and then I uninstalled CCD B14 completley once more by this time I completley removed everything even the registration information and the install directory, rebooted and tried again.

This time CCD B14 was a bit more friendlier, in a sense it was loading up at least more times than hanging but still not a 100%.

As I have two readers and two writers when I tried to load the clone twice in the same time sometimes it would only load once and totally hang upon second loading .

Now here is the strange thing, this time almost each and everytime notice was popping up despite the fact that I had asked it not too by ticking the appropriate box.

I had also noticed that of the time CCD B14 was succsseful in completley loading the Clone CD Tray was remaining grayed out and I had to manually rerset the settings ( hide the CDR Media) in there everytime I was loading CCD B14.

Again CCD B14 was acting better but not quite there.

Again I proceeded to uninstall CCD B14 and this time also tried to uninstall the VIA IDE Performance driver and simply go with the IDE drivers provided in 4in1 4.38 as suggeste.

upon installing the 4in1 4.38 when it came to the part to install its own IDE drivers, I got a message saying that IDE drivers would not install unless I uninstall the VIA miniport driver first.

I agreed and i got a message telling me that they (miniport drivers)were uninstalled and 4in1 4.38 would resume installing after reboot.

Upon reboot the 4in1 installation started and again halted at the exact same point telling me the same thing that the miniport drivers are still there despite the fact that there were not !

Uninstalling the miniport drivers was not among the favorites in my system . . . it did not like that a bit as it first lost all the CD-ROMS and despite the fact that I have reinstalled the 4in1 4.38 and rebooted again, CD roms were not there and there were exclaimation marks on the VIA ultra DMA UDE drive in DM.

I then ran the 4in1 4.38 again this time uninstalling the IDE drivers rebooted and reinstalled again and rebooted and again the same result.

I rebooted the system again and this time I tried o manually install the IDE drivers from 4in1 4.38 by tryng to update ViA IDE driver in DM, by pointing them to the exact location of the IDE driver in the winxp folder in the 4in1 patch.

Needless to say that it did not work.

I knew about the problem of the CD roms dissapearing in Win XP but this was not one of them problems as now it was obvious that the IDE driver was crippled.

Out of not having any choice I reinstalled the miniport driver and rebooted again. CD roms came back to life. I the reinstalled CCDB14 as it was uninstalled before during all this.

Rebooted after install and tried CCD B14, well it was acting a lot better infact much better so than it did before, it loads up more time most of the times this time with only a few occassional lockups.

On the Best Note it even allows me to load it twice in the same time specially when I want to multiburn.

Its worth to mention that Just for testing purposes If I try to load and unload CCD B14 a couple ot times with a few seconds intervals between them chances are that it would definately lock the IDE bus forcing a reboot.

Its been quite some night as I was up all night testing all sort of combinations and varieties to see what works best with the current CCD B14.

So in the end I was not able to successfully unload the VIA miniport driver a.k.a IDE performance drivers fully to allow the IDE drivers in 4in1 4.38 to install properly with out a full format I gather.

BY this time I have no doubt that there is some problems with the drivers some where. If I had to guess I would probably say that it seems the CCD B14 seems to be a bit more aggressive in interogating the IDE/SCSI bus in B14 issue. Or just maybe it does not quite like the miniport drivers just yet.

Again, my sincere thanks to you Olli for your time and your help. I appreciate it.

I hope this feed back would be of some use to you.


#15

holy crap…what a mess…

It seems to me it is the VIA minport drivers that are the culprit…I say this since you can not even unistall them and install the VIA 4n1 4.38 and then reinstall the miniport driver…oh the temptation to tinker…and try the 4.38s on my system and see if it will work

I am glad I have not tried to move to 4.38 4n1…last thing I needto do is wreck my stable system and have my wife murder me dead…then I will not even get the chance to use the CloneCD4 final version or the rumored mastering program that maybe in the future

BTW thanks for the kind words Paradox


#16

Just saw a thread at via arena about a guy with the same problem (less CloneCD). He did the 4in1 ‘thing’ in safemode where it worked and rebooted OK. Another piece of advice is to remove the ghost devices as well while in safe mode - keep the first device and remove the duplicates below it; you can also do this in the registry which is more thrill-seeking…


#17

Thanks for the advice Future,

I will give it a try and see how far I get.

Funny thing is I know I could uninstall the Miniport driver and I did at least when I was running the 4in1 4.37

I don’t know what VIA has done to the 4in1 4.38 since then but it really did a number on my system.


#18

>I’ll try the Performance drivers and post the result<

Come to think of it Olli, I never did find out about your experience with VIA Miniport Driver.

Just curious to see if it was as friendly with CCD B14 for you as it was for me? That is if you had a chance to test it of course.:confused:


#19

Originally posted by PaRaDoX
[B]>I’ll try the Performance drivers and post the result<

Come to think of it Olli, I never did find out about your experience with VIA Miniport Driver.

Just curious to see if it was as friendly with CCD B14 for you as it was for me? That is if you had a chance to test it of course.:confused: [/B]

I have tried the Performance driver for a while now and I don’t see any problem.

One other thing - it looks like XP is sometimes “too clever”. After some stress I did to my system (which caused in several IDE Bus resets and lock-ups) XP seemed to remember “hey, this IDE port had a problem - I’ll disable DMA”.

Result was, that I couldn’t enable DMA for one IDE port anymore, regardless how many times I tried / rebooted.

Scary, isn’t it? XP seems to “remember” things that it shouldn’t.
I solved this problem the following way:

1.) I deleted all CD-ROMs in device manager
2.) I deleted the Primary and Secondary port
3.) I deleted the IDE driver

Then I rebooted and prayed… XP started and found new hardware, the IDE ports and one CD-ROM after the other.
Now I was able to set DMA again just as I liked. All was jsut fine back to normal.

Maybe this helps for you as well.

CAUTION: I had my harddisk on an IDE RAID controller like you do. I wouldn’t have tried this method, if my harddisk was on the same port as the CD-ROMs, as I don’t know, if XP would have booted after removal of the IDE driver!


#20

Wonderful…now WinXP has a true mind of its own…very scary…soon MS will be controlling all of us…