CloneCD (4.2.0.2) ability to read "pre-gap" found in Safedisc 2.9.x

vbimport

#1

Can CloneCD latest build read “pre-gap” found in Safedisc 2.9.x cd protection?

A) Yes!

How do you know?

Comprehensive testing with with a Lite-On LTD 165H DVD-ROM and a Toshiba XM-6702b CD-ROM and “original” Safedisc 2.9.x pc game titles (Madden NFL 2004& The Sims Superstar). Short and simple, my Litey can’t read “pre-gap”, my Toshi can ! Backups made with Litey as reader using CloneCD 4.2.0.2 fail to install\play Madden NFL 2004& The Sims Superstar. Backups made with Toshiba XM-6702b install and play
with no aid of emulation whatsoever. I can also confirm that The Sims Unleashed (CD 1), Sim City 4 (both cd’s), and Command& Conquer Generals (CD 1) all Safedisc 2.8.x protected. contains no “pre-gap” in the cd protection scheme . This test elimanates the need of using Paddus DiscJuggler to determine if your “reader” can read “pre-gap” of Safedisc 2.9.x. If you wan’t to know if your “reader” can read “pre-gap” simply use CloneCD 4.2.0.2 and use the Safedisc 2.5.1 profile and make a backup. If the backup plays\installs(without the aid of Alcohol 120%, Blindwrite Suite or any ATIP hide cd-r\ignore media type) then your “reader” can read “pre-gap”. If your “reader” can’t chances are you’ll encounter this error during the install process. (See attached).


#2

You sure this is a good test?
I went into something similar here:
http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=73635

and according to one of the admins, only safedisc2.8 and 2.9 really check for pre-gap to have been correctly written.

"Nope. You need to test with a sd 2.8+ protected cd. Sd 2.7 doesn’t use the pregap as part of the prot. "… philamber

Also, it doesn’t seem like CCD can correctly write the pre-gap as of now, but I don’t know if Fireburner can, because images made with CCD can be correctly burned with Fireburner.


#3

My backups play in all my roms I own m8 without the aid of any type of emulation whatsoever. I would like Olllie (author of CloneCD) to kindly post his comments on this thread. I’ve proven CloneCD 4.2.0.2 reads “pre-gap” as long as one has a rom that can “correctly read pre-gap” (Toshiba XM-6702b CD-ROM)= example.

Shoey :cool:


#4

Who is talking of emulation? I sure wasn’t. CCD as I stated before may be able to read the pre-gap, but not write it correctly. Fireburner seemingly can, but you don’t know for sure until you have tried it on a safedisc2.8+ protected cd. Your test with safedisc 2.51 is not enough man.


#5

Your test with safedisc 2.51 is not enough man.
The sims Superstar is SafeDisc 2.90.040 and NOT SD 2.51.xxx,man./gs.


#6

I have a Sony 510a and i’m able to backup Madden 2004 and install it but if I try to run the program, it will freeze. However, when I run the image in alcohol’s virtual drive (using my Sony 510a) it runs fine. I’m so confused lol :confused:

Is the Sony 510A able to read “Pre-Gap”? and if not does that mean I’m unable to backup games with safedisk 2.9?


#7

Originally posted by gene_simmons
The sims Superstar is SafeDisc 2.90.040 and NOT SD 2.51.xxx,man./gs.

Yes much of original was edited and added to. In anycase, some fluke copies are possible, as the protection scheme isn’t perfect. I for one can not make a backup using CCD and I used to have a Toshiba DVD-Rom. If you browse the forums here, you will see many many others that couldn’t either. There is always one that is lucky and can. It doesn’t deem a new hardware rig as a solution, nor the software to have full capabilities.


#8

Your test with safedisc 2.51 is not enough man.

Er, where does it say I was backing up Safedisc 2.5.x? I backed up Madden NFL 2004& The Sims Superstar, both Safedisc 2.9.x cd protected.

Shoey :cool:


#9

I slightly misread profile used for game type protection, nevertheless, what is stated above still holds very true. Although I too wish CloneCD would be updated with a fix, cause its known to be buggy with newer safedisc, but as of now, it looks like a possibility that clonecd will be no more. :frowning:


#10

Originally posted by HeadHunter
However, when I run the image in alcohol’s virtual drive (using my Sony 510a) it runs fine. I’m so confused lol :confused:

Accurate pre-gap reading is not required if using alcohol to copy a sd 2.9 protected cd (alcohol uses a different method to bypass that aspect of the guard module).

What is required however is a writer capable of writing the weak sector patterns and not all writers generally regarded as 2 sheep burners can do so.


#11

Originally posted by xtacydima
Also, it doesn’t seem like CCD can correctly write the pre-gap as of now, but I don’t know if Fireburner can, because images made with CCD can be correctly burned with Fireburner.

I don’t think FireBurner does write the pre-gap properly, but what it does do is enough to fool the guard module. As I only have a LTD-163D, which I’m pretty sure doesn’t read the pregap information I’m unable to conclusively prove this, but the FireBurner emulation of the pregap is good enough to fool the guard module but the CCD one isn’t.

Originally posted by Shoebedobedoo
Backups made with Litey as reader using CloneCD 4.2.0.2 fail to install\play Madden NFL 2004& The Sims Superstar. Backups made with Toshiba XM-6702b install and play

The failure to install error you attached would suggest an error in the read/burn to me, not a pre-gap issue. That aside, the Tosh would seem able read and write the pre-gap, what happens when you read with the Litey and write with the Tosh? It is possible that the Litey can read it, but not write it. Remember that the copy protection has evolved to target common forms of duplication, and it is possible that the CCD pre-gap emulation has been targeted specifically, and thus this is why the Litey fails with CCD, but not FireBurner. If a Litey read/Tosh burn fails, then the Litey probably can’t read the pre-gap and CCD will emulate the pre-gap when writing to the Tosh, which should fail. Sucess would suggest that the Litey reads it, but not writes it. Or writes it in such a way that the guard module recognises the CCD fingerprint.


#12

pre gap is pre gap: 0 to -150

Clone can read and write it if the h/w can. If not, it emulates it. SafeDisc does not entirely depend on the presence of the pre-gap


#13

shoey,

hey it is me again …I wanted to see your step by step instructions on that … cause i know someone wtih the brand of tosh drive …also we have newest discjuggler. .I just want to burn and read and see if it truly plays in drives ( dvd burners and cdrw writers ) and see if i dont have to hide atip … I wanna test how you did yours …and just see …I have to hide atip on all burns I do to play in my dvd burn /cdrw writer and i also have to hide atip in just normal cdrw writer

but I dont have to use anything to play in just regular cd rom

also i understand you call hiding atip … you call that emulation correct ? i got some sleep today woohoo


#14

also shoey …

do you have any software …blindwrite , alcohol , clonecd installed ? by change could you be hiding atip with one of those ? well I mean with alcohol cause you can have it installed and checked and have program closed and it will still hide atip … or are you using clonecd installed and using it hide media or did you do registry hack ??? curious …

also have you tested this in fresh machine …with your drives and also just an operating system ? and see if they still all play ? cause then at least you know the drive has been formated and no softawre on it or in registry and then you can see if played

cause i would love to emulation what you did just to see for myself and also confirm what you said …


#15

also shoey …

you said all your drives

so the copies install and play in your cdrw1 and cdrw 2 without hide atip ???


#16

@ giovanni42104, you know you can edit your posts!! :wink:


#17

Originally posted by giovanni42104
[B]
1)…and see if i dont have to hide atip …

2)…but I dont have to use anything to play in just regular cd rom

3)also i understand you call hiding atip … you call that emulation correct ?[/B]

  1. Only in burners for SafeDisc 2.4+ and SecuROM new

  2. correct

  3. no.

Read the FAQ and you’ll get more sleep. Forget the pre-gap issue, it’s a DiscJuggler ‘thing’ only.


#18

Originally posted by Shoebedobedoo
[B]

  1. If you wan’t to know if your “reader” can read “pre-gap” simply use CloneCD 4.2.0.2 and use the Safedisc 2.5.1 profile and make a backup.

  2. If the backup plays\installs(without the aid of Alcohol 120%, Blindwrite Suite or any ATIP hide cd-r\ignore media type) then your “reader” can read “pre-gap”.

  3. If your “reader” can’t chances are you’ll encounter this error during the install process.[/B]

  1. Methodology is flawed. Use DiscJuggler

  2. Fallacious argument: You forgot a variable and have jumped to a conclusion

  3. Coincidence.

  4. :stuck_out_tongue:


#19

hey futureproof …

actually i dont know how to edit my post lol …sorry bout that …also …by what shoey said he is making original burnt copies that he can play in all his drives …even cdrw1 and cdrw 2 that he can play without hide atip …and i just find it hard to believe …but i have been wrong before … I have discjuggler lastest version so I wanted to test it out … but I have not heard anything from shoey …shoey has aslo posted this is blindwrite suite section under sd 2.9 … thread … where it has ten pages lol cant miss it …there i am all the time and seen it and wanted to test what he said out … …

just hard to believe …if you look at that thread you will see what me and other people are talking bout …

nothing against shoey at all … just wanted to try out myself and see wht happens …

hheheh hey all just now seen the edit button …hahhah guess I will use that from now on lol :eek:


#20

Well maybe SafeDisc 2.90 is beaten but Macrovision has just announced SafeDisc 3.1:

[i]LONDON — August 28, 2003 — Macrovision Corporation (Nasdaq: MVSN), leading provider of copy protection and digital rights management technologies, today announced the launch of SafeDisc® version 3.1, designed to upgrade its CD/DVD-ROM copy-protection against hacking and unauthorised copying of protected titles. SafeDisc V3.1 builds upon the security wrapper that PC games publishers have used to protect over 200 million CDs worldwide, and provides effective and time-efficient security tools for PC games developers themselves.

Key features include:

[ul][li]Unique instance-based security that creates individual new security system for each title, and an improved code masking technology which can be used to thwart hackers from reverse-engineering Macrovision copy protection out of a protected application.
[/li]> [li]Robust SafeDisc security API (Application Programming Interface) with “Intelligent Protected Functions (PFNs)” and improved interface, allowing faster and more effective implementation.
[/li]> [li]Expanded Professional Services with on-site Macrovision development engineer working along side your developers to produce world-class highly secure implementation of SafeDisc protection for each title. This also includes SafeDisc API training, software installation pack and additional code tools and methodologies to increase the level of protection that developers can apply to their titles.
[/li]> [li]New unique signature for each title to foil copying to even the most advanced optical disc burners.[/ul][/i][/li]Read more here