Cinavia copy protection now also in mobile phones, TVs and more

vbimport

#1

We’ve just posted the following news: Cinavia copy protection now also in mobile phones, TVs and more[newsimage]http://static.myce.com//images_posts/2012/11/myce-logo-cinavia2.png[/newsimage]

Verance, the developer of the watermark based copy protection Cinavia, announced availability of Cinavia for devices like televisions, set-top boxes, tablets and mobile phones.

            Read the full article here: [http://www.myce.com/news/cinavia-copy-protection-now-also-in-mobile-phones-tvs-and-more-69591/](http://www.myce.com/news/cinavia-copy-protection-now-also-in-mobile-phones-tvs-and-more-69591/)

            Please note that the reactions from the complete site will be synched below.

#2

Being “available” for these devices and actually being used in them are 2 different things. Verance has thus far made licensing and hardware too expensive for most companies. Its also good to note that Cinvaia is required for BD player licensing, its not required for anything else.


#3

Well, I am not against fighting piracy, but it is too much.
After reading this news provided by Domi, I have turned off autoupdate on all tablets, phones etc.

It is more than upsetting.


#4

That is the reason why we developed DVD-Ranger CinEx. I think noone believed that they will stop on PS3 or Blu-ray players. But the good news, DVD-Ranger CinEx also produce Cinavia free mobile videos.


#5

I remember when the ‘HD Ready’ logo was introduced in 2005 that it seemed like a gimmick as many high resolution TVs without this had native resolutions of 720p or higher, some even 1080p. It was when the first HD content started becoming available on Blu-ray, HD DVD and Satellite that it became clear why having a ‘HD Ready’ set was important - Not for the resolution, but for the HDCP requirement to use the HDMI or DVI connection. Earlier HDTV adaptors ended up having to resort to analogue component video or getting a suitable module or DVI to component converter unit.

This news could potentially mean a repeat for early 4K TV buyers. For example, if let’s say a similar certification logo is introduced for 4K TVs and content, streaming providers could be made to require such a certified set-top box for the customer to stream the latest 4K movies and of course that set-top box would need the same TV certification to allow playback, where Cinavia is part of the certification requirements.

On the other hand I think this will purely affect paying customers only and here’s why. Have a look at the number of seeds and peers for 480p, 720p and 1080p versions of a Torrent for any popular title available released in 1080p. Generally the 480p will have the highest number of seeds and peers and the 1080p version with just a handful of seeds and peers, especially for TV shows. Most downloaders don’t go for the 1080p just to pixel-peep are their TVs. The main people interested in using 1080p are those who actually bought the discs and would like to create the highest quality rip for their media player or as a backup. I’m sure once 4K rips become available of upcoming releases, the only people interested in downloading them would be those who just bought a 4K set to give it a test run or those who have an uncapped broadband connection, lots of storage space and don’t care about the download time.

As for getting people to upgrade from Full HD to 4K TVs with an upcoming certification, the movie industry is going to be in for quite a challenge. With the upgrade from CRTs, the advantage was pretty clear - a much bigger TV and noticeably improved picture. As for 4K, … well maybe the few who can afford to renovate a room for an 80" TV and I’m sure these people are not going to be the ones turning to BitTorrent for their 4K content.


#6

A lot of very good points there Seán and I think this whole story is quite a disturbing twist in the Cinavia tale.

If they’re able to ‘force’ this on the manufacturers of TVs and media streaming devices then it will be a lot more difficult for people to avoid.

The portable hardware stuff is a sinister development too as it shows just how far Verance is prepared to go to close all remaining loopholes.

[B]Wombler[/B]


#7

[QUOTE=Wombler;2709819]A lot of very good points there Seán and I think this whole story is quite a disturbing twist in the Cinavia tale.

If they’re able to ‘force’ this on the manufacturers of TVs and media streaming devices then it will be a lot more difficult for people to avoid.

The portable hardware stuff is a sinister development too as it shows just how far Verance is prepared to go to close all remaining loopholes.

[B]Wombler[/B][/QUOTE]

It shows how far Verance is prepared to go to make extra profit. It is all about $$$. They see loopholes full of $$$.


#8

[QUOTE=Ulenspiegel;2709821]It shows how far Verance is prepared to go to make extra profit. It is all about $$$. They see loopholes full of $$$.[/QUOTE]

Very true. :iagree:

They’re pretty relentless with all this sort of stuff too and that HDCP story of Seán’s is a good example of how adept they are at getting these things in through the back door.

[B]Wombler[/B]


#9

I’m just wondering how far this cinavia dovish is going to go…

How long before all music is infected, and then YouTube videos with music in the background will refuse to play on any device …


#10

Yeah and what will bring AnyDVD with its Cinavia Solution that just work on Windows software player? Maybe DVD-Ranger CinEx is the future. Better to support us in the fight against Cinavia.


#11

[QUOTE=DVDranger;2709833]Yeah and what will bring AnyDVD with its Cinavia Solution that just work on Windows software player? Maybe DVD-Ranger CinEx is the future. Better to support us in the fight against Cinavia.[/QUOTE]

This insinuation is absolutely useless and purposeless. Slysoft has already proven itself for the past decade.

Actions speak louder than words.


#12

[QUOTE=debro;2709824]I’m just wondering how far this cinavia dovish is going to go…

How long before all music is infected, and then YouTube videos with music in the background will refuse to play on any device …[/QUOTE]

AFAIK, Verance has designed and intended Cinavia to be format specific. They can encode the signal so that it ONLY triggers specific devices. For example, movie audio would only trigger BD players, and content sold for download would only trigger mobile devices, etc.

With BD audio, Cinavia only triggers when AACS encryption is absent. So its anything but clear just how any of this might be applied to other devices like TVs or phones & tabs. But significant programming is indicated. A phone or TV has no knowledge of AACS encryption.

IOW, the simple presence of a Cinavia watermark is insufficient to trigger the protection, there has to be some other factor which has to be present or absent. Otherwise the audio wouldn’t play anywhere. Its possible they simply intend to make BD audio unplayable on other devices as well as BD players.

So while this news might cause a knee-jerk reaction for some, its not really news since Verance has always intended to expand usage. But what motivation do makers of phones, tabs and TVs have to buy Cinavia licenses and hardware? None, that’s what.


#13

They have exactly the same motivation that BD Player Makers had, and we know how THAT turned out.

Apparently, someone is funding these attempts at monopolizing entertainment (and other markets), and using restrictive measures then ‘legislated’ manufacturing standards.

Sony-Philips paid studios to only issue BluRays, not HD Disks a few years ago, and I still can’t believe that scam was successful, but now we’re stuck with that format. That wasn’t consumer choice - that was a Supplier dictating what the Market could have.

“No other choice means they must buy MY product and pay MY fees!”


#14

[QUOTE=CDan;2709839]With BD audio, Cinavia only triggers when AACS encryption is absent. So its anything but clear just how any of this might be applied to other devices like TVs or phones & tabs. But significant programming is indicated. A phone or TV has no knowledge of AACS encryption. [/QUOTE]

That’s actually a good point, although it could be based on HDCP, e.g. Cinavia checks audio if HDCP is not active.

After a closer read of the MovieLabs copy protection document about watermarking, it seems to be audio-specific also, so even if enforced, it would be just a matter of sending a video-only signal to the TV and using an external audio system for the audio.


#15

Why you all burn your heads? Cinavia is broken it is just a question of time when then audio becomes transparent quality.


#16

[QUOTE=Ulenspiegel;2709838]This insinuation is absolutely useless and purposeless. Slysoft has already proven itself for the past decade.

Actions speak louder than words.[/QUOTE]

Yes action speaks louder than words…so resume, the AnyDVD solution is just working on windows. Not on mobile, mac, linux, andorid, iOs and whatever. Arcsoft was able to patch their player against the AnyDVD solution. Now they bring their patch, then Acsoft brings a patch and so forth. And this is just one OS.
Our soluton has currently not the best quality but it works everywhere. I mean, this action is much louder than words.


#17

dvd ranger i hope your audio improves though it is still currently terrible but at least it is a start


#18

[QUOTE=DVDranger;2709856]Yes action speaks louder than words…so resume, the AnyDVD solution is just working on windows. Not on mobile, mac, linux, andorid, iOs and whatever. Arcsoft was able to patch their player against the AnyDVD solution. Now they bring their patch, then Acsoft brings a patch and so forth. And this is just one OS.
Our soluton has currently not the best quality but it works everywhere. I mean, this action is much louder than words.[/QUOTE]

Not sure where your getting your info but they do have software that with Anydvd called CloneDVDmobile to make for mobile devices that includes android, iOs devices to play your movies on. So you need to get some facts straight here they have work around as stated from them and then CloneDVDmobile makes it playable on those devices. So one should stay away from another Developer software unless you are their development team and not make insinuation that you do not know about.


#19

Cinavia is a requirement for a license to make a BD player. There’s no “motivation” involved, its not a choice.

Apparently, someone is funding these attempts at monopolizing entertainment (and other markets), and using restrictive measures then ‘legislated’ manufacturing standards.

Verance paid for early Cinavia encoding efforts, (a freebe), which is why there were several studios originally releasing movies with protection. Since then, only Sony has used it for movie releases.

The costs for a movie studio are quite substantial. The hardware has to be bought, a license bought, an extra fee for each title encoded plus a fee for each disc sold. A large studio can easily spend into 6 figures just for setup, and continues to pay per title. Its not hard to understand why studios are lining up to ignore Cinavia, there’s no actual proof that this investment saves any money at all. This is a Sony endeavor, and Sony only. Will Sony start using Cinavia on music and streaming content? Maybe, but with profit margins being pennies per track for music, will anyone else sign up for Cinavia? Doubtful.


#20

I have always wanted to see some “class action” suits about cinavia as well as other protections that certain companies that own the patents require manufacturers to use. Or not manufacture .

In other words :
Your companies firmware ,software ,&/or hardware is on equipment I now own .
I don’t want to keep it on my equipment unless you pay me a lease fee .
I really don’t even want it then but if you have made it unremovable why shouldn’t I get “rent” for the space your product occupies on MY property.
If your company started using my frontyard for a company parking lot.
I could have the vehicles towed off or rent it to you .
But I wouldn’t have to let you occupy MY property for free.