CD copied on the fly (only works in some players)

vbimport

#1

Hey guys,

I copied a CD (twice) on the fly (which I don’t normally do) and both copies I made only play in some of my CD players…

At the moment I’m using Nero Express 6.6 OEM Suite software and Lite-On 165P6S burner.

The copies play fine in both of my computers, they also plays fine in an 8 year old CD discman, however they won’t play in 2 of my CD players which came with my surround sound home movie theatre systems (4 years old and 2 years old).

Does anybody have any idea what this could be ?

Cheers !

EDIT - I forgot to say, I burned the same CD from WAVE files on my hard drive and it plays fine on ALL of my CD players.
Not sure why the copies burned on the fly won’t play in some players ?


#2

IT could just be that the ones burned on the fly are lower quality burns. Optical disks like to be burned at a specific speed (speed may change through the burning process but it wants to write specific speeds at specific times). When you burn on the fly (which most people don’t recommend), if it has a hard time reading part of the disk, it may have to slow down burning while waiting for data to be read, which will result in reduced burn quality. One of the common results of a poorer quality burn is it wont play on some players (some players are better at playing bad disks). I would always copy to the hard drive first.


#3

[QUOTE=ripit;2111066]IT could just be that the ones burned on the fly are lower quality burns. Optical disks like to be burned at a specific speed (speed may change through the burning process but it wants to write specific speeds at specific times). When you burn on the fly (which most people don’t recommend), if it has a hard time reading part of the disk, it may have to slow down burning while waiting for data to be read, which will result in reduced burn quality. One of the common results of a poorer quality burn is it wont play on some players (some players are better at playing bad disks). I would always copy to the hard drive first.[/QUOTE]

It said it burned at 16X and I didn’t notice any real change in speed…
It’s strange that the CD’s work on a dated 8 year old CD discman (not exactly a high quality CD player haha), but won’t work on 2 decent home theatre system CD players which are only a few years old…
Yeah, like I said in my original post, I never normally burn on the fly (I was short on time and was copying something not very important), I normally “always” copy CD’s from my hard drive…
But now I’m curious as to what’s causing this problem !


#4

OK this is odd…

I successfully copied 2 other CD’s on the fly, both copies play no problem on ALL of my CD players.

The one I refer to in my original post on this topic which will not play is a copy of a CD I made compiling 4 original CD singles I purchased released this year (so I can listen to it all at once without having to change 4 CD’s over each time I listen as they only have 2 songs on each CD), which I had saved as WAVE files onto my hard drive, and then burned all the WAVE files from my hard drive to CD, that CD plays fine in ALL of my CD players, but when I copied it on the fly (as I said in my original post) the copy won’t play in 2 of my CD players.

So as a TEST I actually just re-saved all 4 of the original CD singles to my hard drive as WAVE files, then burned them to a CD (that CD plays fine in ALL of my CD players).

I then copied it on the fly, and again it will not play on the same 2 CD players !

I don’t get it at all !


#5

It wouldn’t necessarily be a slow down that you would notice. If the reading drive cannot provide data for even a fraction of a second longer than the buffer can handle, the drive may momentarily slow down, for as little as a few seconds or less I would guess. thats plenty to cause a poor quality spot on the disk. If it happens several times, you get several poor spots, even though the total burn time doesn’t change much. If the disk reads fast enough for the whole burn, then it might come out just fine. Its just a gamble with on the fly burning. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. The original burned disk may be fine, but if the reading drive doesn’t like it enough that it has to slow down to read, your are hosed.

As far as cheaper players playing better, that’s actually normal with many. Cheap players tend to just blow past errors or hard to read spots (which gives worse playback quality throughout the whole disk). More expensive players are going to be more likely to try to reread if it doesn’t get it the first pass, and may continue to try to reread and eventually error out and fail. I’m much more familiar with dvd, but those cheap 30$ apex dvd players have a reputation for playing disks many 200$ units can’t. I have a 300$ 27" emerson tv/vcr/dvd combo (cheap junk but it works), that would play dvd’s with visible large scratches (great for the kids movies). It would just skip the bad parts but still play past them in a pretty fluid manner (disks that would totally choke in my htpc). Unfortunately, the baby pulled the drawer out and stripped one of the loading gears, lol.


#6

Ah yes, that makes total sense as to why an older lower quality player would read defective CD’s OK (by just passing any errors).

Just another example here of why it’s better to burn off the hard drive and not on the fly !

Thanks for posting.


#7

use Ner0 Info Tool to check the Read and Burn speeds of your drives. if you have two cd burning drives try them both at half the read speed of the alternate drive.

depending on the read speed of your source drive. it is advisable when burning on-the-fly, to burn at half the read speed of the source drive. ner0 has UltraBuffer which will use 80 MB of your system RAM for additional buffer. so if you have read errors the burning will continue even if the burning drive buffer is depleted. however if you are trying to burn too fast the burning drive deplete the UltraBuffer, then the burn will stop for a moment and fill the UltraBuffer and the normal 2 MB drive buffer.

So the UltraBuffer can be good to recover from read errors, past the normal drive buffer, but bad in the case of burning too fast. as the burning will stop for a few split seconds longer.

and thanks for the explanation ripit, i often wondered why my free dvd player [almost 5 yrs old from directv] works better than my parents $400 samsung.

edit// whats your UDMA mode? 165P6S is mode 4 compatible. i dont know about your other drive. Make sure you are using an 80-wire/40-connector IDE cable. this will give your drives the ability to use UDMA mode 4. most advisable for hard drive usage as well. many systems will use the 80-wire/40-connector for Hard Drive but use the older 40-wire/40-connector for Optical disc drives.
http://www.mikeshardware.com/howtos/howto_connect_ide_hd.html


#8

[QUOTE=troy512;2111868]use Ner0 Info Tool to check the Read and Burn speeds of your drives. if you have two cd burning drives try them both at half the read speed of the alternate drive.

depending on the read speed of your source drive. it is advisable when burning on-the-fly, to burn at half the read speed of the source drive. ner0 has UltraBuffer which will use 80 MB of your system RAM for additional buffer. so if you have read errors the burning will continue even if the burning drive buffer is depleted. however if you are trying to burn too fast the burning drive deplete the UltraBuffer, then the burn will stop for a moment and fill the UltraBuffer and the normal 2 MB drive buffer.

So the UltraBuffer can be good to recover from read errors, past the normal drive buffer, but bad in the case of burning too fast. as the burning will stop for a few split seconds longer.

and thanks for the explanation ripit, i often wondered why my free dvd player [almost 5 yrs old from directv] works better than my parents $400 samsung.

edit// whats your UDMA mode? 165P6S is mode 4 compatible. i dont know about your other drive. Make sure you are using an 80-wire/40-connector IDE cable. this will give your drives the ability to use UDMA mode 4. most advisable for hard drive usage as well. many systems will use the 80-wire/40-connector for Hard Drive but use the older 40-wire/40-connector for Optical disc drives.
http://www.mikeshardware.com/howtos/howto_connect_ide_hd.html[/QUOTE]

Yeah, a couple of days ago when I originally posted I already tried burning in 2 of my different burners, with the same results.
I even tried combinations of reading from different drives and burning with different drives eg.

READ drive 2, BURN drive 1 or BURN drive 3
READ drive 1, BURN drive 3
READ DRIVE 3, BURN drive 1
(with the same CD’s playing in ALL my players and the same CD’s failing to play in some players).

About the suggestion you made, I already tried that, as one burn I did a few days ago would have been reading at X40 and burning at X16, same results.

I just find it strange that it seems to be only happening with specific CD’s.
As I already said previously I did some tests…
I made a CD from WAVE files on my hard drive (which plays in ALL of my players), when I copied it on the fly that copy only plays in some players).
So I re-burned the source CD again by burning the WAVE files to a CD from my hard drive (and again it played on ALL of my CD players), then when I copied that CD on the fly the copy won’t play in some players).
Yet I have CD’s that copy on the fly every time and play in ALL of my players.

When it comes down to it, it doesn’t really matter because I ALWAYS burn off the hard drive, and in 8 years I’ve never had any problems there !
I’m just curious as to what was causing this “odd” on the fly problem.


#9

I just find it strange that it seems to be only happening with specific CD’s.

are these cds of the same manufacturer and same spindle? do you have dma enabled? have you posted a burn log? please get a copy of Ner0 7.1.0.10 and try copy on-the-fly. 5 years ago before i knew anything about cd/dvd burning i was copying on-the-fly with Ner0 6 and default settings. i have no idea what drives i was using at the time. and still to this day many of these disc play. also to add insult to injury, these disc have been stored in a booklet with sun damage!!

most of these disc are:

Nero CD-DVD Speed: Disc Info
Basic Information
 Disc type:    : CD-R
 Manufacturer: : CMC Magnetics
 MID           : 97m26s66f
 Write speeds: : 4 X - 10 X - 16 X - 24 X - 32 X - 40 X
 Capacity:     : 79:59.74
               : 703 MB
Extended Information
 Usage         : General
 Disc Status   : Open
Raw Data
ATIP
0000 - D0 00 98 00 61 1A 42 00 4F 3B 4A 00 FF FF FF 00 - ....a.B.O;J.....
0010 - FF FF FF 00 FF FF FF 00                         - ........

or

Nero CD-DVD Speed: Disc Info
Basic Information
 Disc type:    : CD-R
 Manufacturer: : Postech
 MID           : 97m26s11f
 Write speeds: : 4 X - 10 X - 16 X - 24 X - 32 X
 Capacity:     : 79:59.74
               : 703 MB
Extended Information
 Usage         : General
 Disc Status   : Closed
Raw Data
ATIP
0000 - F0 00 B8 00 61 1A 0B 00 4F 3B 4A 00 FF FF FF 00 - ....a...O;J.....
0010 - FF FF FF 00 FF FF FF 00                         - ........


#10

[QUOTE=bomber2007;2111916]Yeah, a couple of days ago when I originally posted I already tried burning in 2 of my different burners, with the same results.
I even tried combinations of reading from different drives and burning with different drives eg.

READ drive 2, BURN drive 1 or BURN drive 3
READ drive 1, BURN drive 3
READ DRIVE 3, BURN drive 1
(with the same CD’s playing in ALL my players and the same CD’s failing to play in some players).

About the suggestion you made, I already tried that, as one burn I did a few days ago would have been reading at X40 and burning at X16, same results.

I just find it strange that it seems to be only happening with specific CD’s.
As I already said previously I did some tests…
I made a CD from WAVE files on my hard drive (which plays in ALL of my players), when I copied it on the fly that copy only plays in some players).
So I re-burned the source CD again by burning the WAVE files to a CD from my hard drive (and again it played on ALL of my CD players), then when I copied that CD on the fly the copy won’t play in some players).
Yet I have CD’s that copy on the fly every time and play in ALL of my players.

When it comes down to it, it doesn’t really matter because I ALWAYS burn off the hard drive, and in 8 years I’ve never had any problems there !
I’m just curious as to what was causing this “odd” on the fly problem.[/QUOTE]

Ha !, I knew I was forgetting some info in my previous post, yes, I’ve tried some TDK Gold and Verbatim CD’s.

I know pretty much all the buttons etc in my Nero program, and I’m sure I’ve never heard of DMA, where do I locate that ?, I’m sure it’s not on my program.


#11

http://svp.co.uk/helpdesk/index.php?_m=downloads&_a=viewdownload&downloaditemid=15&nav=0

still you need to have an 80-wire/40-connector cable to take full advantage of UDMA.