Can't get good results out of MII Verbatim Super Azo CDRs 97m34s23f

I started discussing this with DrageMester in the NEC forum.

I found a nice deal for photo printable Verbatim Super Azo CDRs, so I decided to give them a go and bought 2 50-discs spindles.

I can generally easily get very low and even jitter around 7-7,8% out of most CDRs in my NECs (3540, 4550) and LG H22N. I just can’t achieve this with these discs. Tried lower burning speeds without any change. C1 are also higher than expected.

DrageMester suggested me to try my 1650 with f/w BCIC, which didn’t turn out better, actually slightly worse (sorry Drage :confused: ). Didn’t try any other speed than @16X, though.

Oh, well. These are not awful results either, just not the “holy grail” I came to expect from quality CDRs. And I still have my huge stock of good old TY. :bigsmile:

I think that from now on, I’ll stick with consistently works for me, I’m getting tired of all these experiments over the last 2 years. My DVDRs will be MCC004 and my CDRs TY, period, case closed. :bigsmile:

Graphs:
1. An example of what I’m expecting from a top-notch CDR burn in terms of jitter
2. MII 97m34s23f Verbatim @32X in Nec 3540A
3. MII 97m34s23f Verbatim @32X in LG H22N (best result)
4. MII 97m34s23f Verbatim @16X in Benq 1650

Hi,

I can confirm the results for these discs ( I have the non-printables):
http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=187249

admitted, I burned them at 40x

Samsung SH-S182D @32x:
http://club.cdfreaks.com/showpost.php?p=1869254&postcount=49
same drive @48x:
http://club.cdfreaks.com/showpost.php?p=1869290&postcount=50

Michael

Well, as addicted as I am to this forum, I missed this thread of yours, and I wish I hadn’t! :doh: (or I just forgot, in wishful thinking because of the “Verbatim” name :rolleyes: :o ).

Thanks for the input, at least now I know that the age of my burners has nothing to do with my results… :bigsmile: :flower:

These discs will probably end as expendable MP3 compilations for my car.

Hi,

I also have some “Made in Europe” discs from these, and they aren’t much better btw.

Let’s hope they are stable at least. :bigsmile:

Michael

Er… according to C’t, they’re not very stable… just found this input from [B]Dakhaas[/B]… :doh: :doh:

http://club.cdfreaks.com/showpost.php?p=1562528&postcount=7

:shrug: At least, the printable surface is very nice… :shrug:

Ouch! :eek:

Yep, you said it.

When I think that even the cheap CMC-made printable Datawrites that I used last years are better :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
So much for the “go for Verbatim” motto (I mean for CDRs! For DVDR that’s another story :slight_smile: ).

I have some of those…170 or so actually. Verbatim brand MII #94904 DLP printable. I ordered these in hopes of getting MIT but not sure they are really any better. TY is the only way to go for CD-R greatness.

Or genuine in-house manufactured Maxells (regular Maxell CDRs are mostly Ritek now), but they’ve become hard to find and pretty expensive (“Broacast Quality”, “Pro” line). TY CDRs are easy to find (online) and pretty cheap for the great quality. :iagree:

Well in your line of business you would need good quality CD-R’s :slight_smile:

I’m just a friendly neighborhood Joe that makes CD-R’s compilations for himself :stuck_out_tongue: These Verb’s will be used for give aways.

In both cases, TY CDRs entirely fulfill the expectations. :cool:

8X (Premium II) or 16X (Premium I) at the most has give me the best results with this media. I have not tried any with my DVD burners sorry.

Hi,

Try them with your new Samsung and scan (advanced) with your Benq :slight_smile: No need to go below 32x with TY :smiley:

Michael

It’s pretty clear that Verb has forgotten about keeping the quality up with CD-R. Almost all their CD-R are now CMC made Pythalocyanine or MII or Malaysia. Almost impossible to find the good old MIT/MIC Super Azo.

I might have actually sourced a place to get some. The store owners are annoying and they put their barcode stickers right on the spot where it says Lifetime warranty or limited Lifetime warranty etc.

There’s another place I can actually get proper Super Azo MIT but that’s $1 per disc.

TY is nice and cheap still. Easy to get for under 50 cents a disc too. TY wins the CD-R war.

Looks like you’ll just have to rely on the good old TY for important stuff, Franck. Btw that’s some nice jitter in the first scan!! :eek

I just burned one of these CD-Rs with my BenQ DW1655 BCIB at 16x and got horrible results. Perhaps the firmware team managed to build some random badness into the CD-R writing code as well in this firmware? :frowning:

My initial suggestion was based on a couple of tests at 32x.

You bet! :slight_smile:

Btw that’s some nice jitter in the first scan!! :eek
I’m anal with CDR jitter… :bigsmile: It’s really an obsession (also with DVDRs but less so). I don’t want less than the best! BTW this is easily obtainable with lots of media, including CMC and Ritek stuff. A good burner + pure CAV strategy + reasonable burning speed is all it takes. There are more difficult things to achieve, like zero E21 errors. :bigsmile:

Indeed. :slight_smile:

Yesterday, I said to myself “well, if my own 1650/BCIC is unable to do things properly @16X, no need to try @32X”. But today, I’ve been having second thoughs… Was I right? Was I wrong? So I tried @32X.

Looks like I was… right! Not any better than @16X. :disagree: (actually slightly worse in terms of jitter, :Z mainly at the beginning of the burn).

Variation between units and media manufacturing probably explain why your 1655/BCIC can burn your own 97m34s23f @32X with better results. Go figure. Thanks anyway :slight_smile:

EDIT Forgot the scan of the @32X burn, sorry, here it is.


I guess you mean CLV strategy?

Maybe this will come as a suprise to you but no, I do mean pure CAV. Not by opposition with CLV, which produces excellent results as well (but at slow speeds), but by opposition with P-CAV which is quite frequent in CDR burning strategies, and produces lesser results in terms of jitter according to my testing. A jitter hump start where the burning speed reaches its max speed and switches from CAV to CLV. In my burners at least.

The two images posted are NOT related :cop:


Image 1
As I decided to use these discs to transfer older MP3 compilations (expendable), I’ve now burned about 30. Well, I’m on my 3rd failed burn.

Examining the data side, there are dye defects (dark spots and lines) - well, MBI is at it again! :a

Verbatim is gonna receive several emails from me I guess… :bigsmile:


Image 2
For the rest of the discs, I found the best combination: NEC 3540 1WB @40X. Not perfect, but very good, pretty low jitter specially when compared to other burning combinations. :cool:

First time that I have to burn CDR faster to get better results. :eek: :confused:



MBI just always seems to let utter crap pass through quality control at times. Verbatim really need to stop outsourcing media manufacturing to them.